wine-msg - 1/14/08 Medieval wines. Spiced wine. Dandelion wine. NOTE: See also these files: mead-msg, fruits-msg, p-bottles-msg, wine-cooking-msg, brewing-msg, beverages-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How sweet were medieval wines? Date: 29 Jun 1993 18:27:27 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering Greetings from Fiacha, Gunwalt said:- > Considering some of the concoctions I've been offered, I suspect > that anything with alcohol would be consumed. I suspect that you are mistaken. I suspect that most medievals distrusted the hygenic safety of water as a drink and considered that either the alcohol or the fermentation purified the water used to make it. I suspect that the alcoholic stuff was not druck to get drunk but to avoid getting sick. The other aspect is that of sweetness. In early period sugar was rare and expensive even more so than honey which was also rare and expensive. Thus sweet things to eat and drink would have been prized. I suspect that Ale and Small Beer were the period equivalents of Soda Pop and were drunk accordingly. Overly sweet wines could provide a rare blast of sweetness or could be diluted to purify more suspect water. I suspect that taking a sweet substance and converting it into a non-sweet liquid would have been viewed as a failure. A dry wine or mead would be neither sweet nor vinager and so have no saving graces. Fiacha AnTir haslock at zso.dec.com From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How sweet were medieval wines? Date: 29 Jun 93 20:09:28 GMT Organization: The Rialto Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Fiacha recently said, >I suspect that taking a sweet substance and converting it into a non-sweet >liquid would have been viewed as a failure. A dry wine or mead would be >neither sweet nor vinager and so have no saving graces. While you are right that sweetness was considered a good thing, this claim would seem to suggest that it was the only one. A study of period recipes does not support that view. The picture that emerges both from their works on health and from their recipes is one that values balance and variety. Herbs and spices are combined deliberately to balance flavors (according to the theory of the humors); dishes of one nature are deliberately juxtaposed against dishes of another. Also, as I posted in commenting on Russell's Boke of Nurture, three kinds of wine were recognized: red, white, and sweet. The suggestion, surely, is that red and white wines are _not_ sweet, at least by medieval standards, and yet are also _not_ failures. The view is also supported by the existence in Digby of recipes for mead that, when followed, produce a dry beverage. BTW, what's supposed to be so great, from a medieval point of view, about vinegar? The name is just "vin aigre" -- sharp wine; it's also sometimes called "broken wine". Sure, they used it for flavoring (and for salad dressing), but not as often as they used wine. There are specific processes to produce it (and recipes for them); it's not just wine that went bad (at least not always). But I see no reason to suppose that the vinegar was more the _point_ of the exercise than the wine, however dry. But you're certainly right about not necessarily using fermented beverages to get roaring drunk. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How sweet were medieval wines? Date: 29 Jun 1993 22:00:20 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering Greetings from Fiacha, I will admit that I might have gotten a little carried away in denigrating non-sweet wines. After writing, it occurred to me that wines were perhaps the only way to preserve fruit juices beyond the end of the fruits season and that high sugar and high alcohol combined to deter corruption. Again, this is unsupported imagining. Given this mindset (which may be imaginary) separating wines from preserved fruit juices would make a certain amount of sense. Wines are to be drunk as is while the other stuff gets used in a variety of ways. Vinegar also has a number of uses rather than merely being drunk unadulterated. The real point of all of this is that today we have a wide variety of things to drink and ample supplies of sweetener that is very cheap. Thus we no longer value the sweetness of either ale of wine. In fact, we now have little interest in sweet beer or sweet wine. The same logic could be applied to distillates too. Instead of valueing drinks for the sugars they contain we value them for their alcohol and seek for ways to increase the alcohol content. Had sugar prices dropped by Sir Digby's day? Were his dry meads a function of the ready availabilty of sweeteners? With respect to the other posting about making mead from honeycomb washings, the are references to using an egg as a hydrometer, judging the gravity by the amount of shell above the surface. Thus I believe that period brewers made consistent brews. Fiacha AnTir haslock at zso.dec.com From: cav at bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) Subject: Re: How sweet were mediev Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 13:22:37 GMT Greetings to the good folk of the Rialto from (hick) Balderik. So far, much of what has been posted regarding the behaviour of yeast has been essentially correct, but there are a few details missing which can make a difference. (I'm not a microbiologist so no flames please - this is just the brewing wisdom I've absorbed over the years. Some fiddly details may not be entirely correct). 1) Different strains of yeast have different alcohol tolerances. Champagne yeasts (and possibly Sherry yeasts - not sure) have the highest tolerances to alcohol. Ale strains tend to have much lower tolerances. Generic wine yeasts are somewhere inbetween. When the alcohol level of the fermenting wine/mead/ ale exceeds the tolerance of the strain being used, the yeast dies. A judicious choice of yeast strain can make it easier to hit a target of alcohol level X and sweetness Y, but the tolerance of each strain is not a hard limit. It's difficult to know what strains were used historically. Digby mentions the use of 'mother of wine (presumably yeast sediment from a batch of wine)', ale barm, and in several cases, naturally occuring yeast from the air (again presumably). 2) Different strains of yeast differ in how 'attenuative' they are. An attenuative yeast will ferment a high percentage of the fermentable sugar in the must, while an unattenuative strain ferments a lower percentage. Champagne yeast is attenuative, Epernay yeast is less so. You can enhance the residual sweetness of a beverage slightly by choosing a less attenuative yeast, without boosting the alcohol content to the point where the yeast is poisoned. This requires a certain amount of care since even a slight contamination with a more attenuative strain can lead to fermentation restarting in the bottle and the 'glass grenade' syndrome. 3) Yeast is a living organism, and its life cycle is a little more complex than 'eat sugar, excrete CO2 and alcohol'. Fermentation is not the yeast's prefered mode of feeding. Yeast would much rather breath in oxygen, and convert the sugar to water and CO2 the way we do, but in a pinch they'll switch over to fermentation when oxygen is unavailable. It is this ability that the brewer exploits to good advantage. Since fermentation is a less efficient mode of operation, the yeast is sometimes unable to continue fermenting until all the available sugars are consumed. I've never heard a completely satisfying explanation for the phenomenon, but a fermentation will sometimes become 'stuck' ie. stop prematurely. It will can just as inexplicably start up again, sometimes with disasterous results. Two factors which seem to contribute to stuck fermentation is a lack of oxygen during the early stages of fermentation and a lack of the various trace elements that yeast require to live and reproduce. The first factor is easy to remedy. Once the must has cooled to pitching temperature, you agitate the must by either repeatedly pouring from a height (this is actually mentioned in several of Digby's recipes), or by shaking the must in a partially empty container. The oxygen allows the yeast to go through a respiration phase which makes for a more vigorous fermentation which is less likely to 'stick'. The second factor can be somewhat problematic when making mead. Compared to ale wort, honey must is deficient in a number of trace elements needed by yeast. The addition of fruit to the must can help alleviate this problem. Without these nutrients, fermentation can be slow (compared to what you get with ale), and the yeast will sometimes produce off flavours that take a great deal of aging to 'mellow out'. This is why some people speak of mead making as taking several years. The addition of fruit/spices can also help to mask the off flavours making the mead drinkable at a younger age. In the worst case, the fermentation may become stuck. Adding nutrient can result in very quick fermentation, but some people claim that the nutrients contribute their own off flavours that take just as long to mellow out. I like melomels (fruit meads), so I don't bother with the nutrients (I also try to avoid the non- period cheats whenever possible). Cheers, Balderik (who's trying to find time to hit the strawberry fields to stock up for a big batch of his strawberry ambrosia From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Cheese questions Date: 25 Nov 1993 04:59:30 GMT Organization: The Rialto Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Fiammetta Adalieta writes, >A similar question: what sort of wines are period? I'm mostly interested >in those that would be used in cooking; hyppocris, the other period use >I make of wine, disguises flavors enough that I just follow the advise in >_Pleyn Delite_ of picking the cheapest red wine without a nasty aftertaste. >I would guess that period wines would be likely red and possibly on the >sweet side, but I have no good evidence to back that up at all. Anyone >have any suggestions? They classified wines as red, white, and sweet. There is list of wines of all three sorts in John Russell's _Boke of Nurture_. There are recipes that call specifically for red, some that call for white, some that call for specific sweet sorts (wine greke, vernage, etc.). I infer from this that period wines were not all markedly sweet, or they would not make the largest distinctions in that area. As to what the ordinary wines were like, I really don't know. I normally use a wine whose flavor I like, since the point is largely to inbue with flavor. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: habura at rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Non-alcoholic period brews Date: 3 Jan 1995 19:42:54 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Tangwystl writes about carbonation technology. If memory serves (I can't fine the reference, drat it!) the first truly "sparkling" wines--Champagne--were introduced in the 17th c. with the invention of bottles that could take the pressure. (The inventor was a monk--Dom Perignon, to be precise.) Earlier wines might have had small amounts of residual CO2 but were not as fizzy as the beverages we think of as carbonated. Alison MacDermot From: HPGV80D at prodigy.COM (MISS PATRICIA M HEFNER) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Medieval French wines Date: 26 Feb 1995 00:47:47 -0500 Organization: The Internet -- [ From: Patricia Hefner * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Does anybody know where vintages called "salinato" and "repeto" came from? They were the wines of choice at the College de Sorbonne in the thirteenth centuries. Where would Parisians have gotten their wines, from the Champagne area? I don't know a at %&* thing about medieval drinks. Would somebody care to enlighten me on the subject? ----Yours in Service, Isabelle From: Ric Sweeting <richardleon at delphi.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval French wines Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 22:23:19 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info at delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) The Salinato come from Italy, NW of Parma. It is still made in a modern fashion. I can look for a simular vintage. In 13 C paris wine came from every except for English areas, namely bordoeux. Champange as we know and love did not exist yet. I believe that most wine came from Burgundy? From: derek.broughton at onlinesys.com (DEREK BROUGHTON) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval French wines Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 22:00:00 -300 Organization: Online Systems Of Canada LS>For some info on Med. French wines, see Johnson, _Vintage: The Story of LS>Wine_, New York: Simon & Schuster (1989) and Seward, _Monks and Wine_, LS>New York: Crown Publishers (1979). Also, Williams, _Bread, Wine & Money_, LS>Chicago: U.Chicago Press (1993). LS> -- Esclarmonde de Colloure I second Esclarmonde's recommendation, but that's where I went when the question about Salinato and ? arose, and he didn't mention them. Too bad. From: david.mcdonald at prostar.com (David Mcdonald) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Medieval French wines Date: 18 Mar 95 09:50:41 PST Organization: ProStar Internet Gateway Also try The Medieval Wine Trade. Sorry bibliographic info in the cold garage and I am in the warm house. This is an excellent document about which wines were imported where and when. Eduardo Lucrezia, AnTir From: jtn at newsserver.uconn.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period wine? Date: 24 Aug 1995 20:57:09 GMT Organization: University of Connecticut Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Gregria de la Croix asks: : I'm trying to come up with the definitive egredouce recipe. (By : definitive, I mean one that is "authentic" and tasty in equal measures.) : I'm using the recipe in _Pleyn Delit_ as my starting point, but no matter : what changes I make it comes out tasting harsh. I think it's either the : wine or the vinegar I'm using. : Now the recipe calls for red wine. I've tried jug burgundy, and : lambrusco, with not too much success. Three comments on wine. First, there are lots of period recipes for egredouce. You might try looking at several, and playing around. Second, much as I revere Hieatt and Butler, the proportions in their version of the recipe aren't sacred. They made them up. The original just says things on the order of "some". You might try altering the proportions, if this balance is not to your taste. Third, the point of wine in cookery is to provide taste, not (as a rule) alcohol. Hence the right move is to use, not the worst, but the best wine you can get your hands on, within reason and the constraints of your budget. Find a soft wine that you like to drink, and try making it with that. (They had lots of different wines in period, and there is no particular reason to suppose that you can reproduce the particular wines that were used in the recipe, so the most sensible thing to do is choose something you like.) Also, my usual experience is that people screw up with vinegar at least as often as they do with wine. In middle english, "vinegar" (and things spelled differently but pronounced about the same ;^) refers explicitly and exclusively to wine vinegars (red or white). (The word originates from "vin aigre", i.e. "sharp wine.") There are separate words for cider vinegar ("eisel") and malt vinegar (I forget, off the top of my head). (There is no word for white distilled vinegar, because they didn't use it, which was wise, because it is nasty, and fit only for cleaning windows or dying Easter eggs. ;^) If you are not using a decent quality wine vinegar, try changing to one. Good luck! Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: maunche at aol.com (Maunche) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period wine? Date: 25 Aug 1995 21:56:45 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Greetings unto you gentle folk, and to Lord Gregria de la Croix in particular, who inquires about period wine. Good Lord, The recipe for Egurdouce was from the Forme of Cury, written for Richard II towards the end of the 14th century. The recipe (as printed in Pleyn Delit) calls for 'rede wine'. The wine you want to use would be a young Claret/Bordeaux, or a Beaujolais, light red in color, and almost no oak characteristics. To quote from _Scum_ ... By the reign of Edward III (1327-1377) the trade in French wine had reached amazing proportions. Ships of that time were rated at the number of tonnes (252 gallon casks of wine) they could carry. To this day, we speak of ship "tonnage" when we refer to ocean freight transport. The wine fleet would sail for France in late autumn, returning before Christmas with "new wine". They would sail again after Easter in the spring, and return with "rack wine" of the same vintage. In 1372, the wine fleet consisted of some 200 ships, with average tonnage well over 50 tonnes per ship, for a total cargo of over 3 million gallons of wine that year. The English even had their own name for much of this wine. The French used the term clairet to refer to the light red wine of Bordeaux, before it was blended with heavier, darker red wine from elsewhere in France. It was this that the English came to call Claret. - Lord Corwin of Darkwater, "A Good Familiar Creature", Scum #8 ... By the mid 13th century, three fourths of England's royal wine came from Bordeaux, at a freight charge of 8 shillings the ton. The wine fleet convened twice a year; in October for the "vintage" shipping, and in February for the "rack" shipping of wine drawn off the lees. We have Bordeaux's export figures for seven years of the early 14th century, averaging 83,000 tonneaux of 12 score and 12 gallons each. England took about half of this, and when the new wine arrived, last year's was halved in price, or even just thrown away. These wines were the common drink, lower in status the Mediterranean and Rhenish wines, but they were plentiful and cheap. Bordeaux made three kinds of wines: white, red , and clairet. Until about 1600, clairet meant a light colored wine, ranging from yellow, as distinct from white, to pink. To get the desired pink color, called "partridge-eye", red and white wines were often mixed. Red wines then would have been very light. They were only on the skins one day, and absorbed little color and tannins. After the wine was drawn off, the remainder, redder and coarser, was used for tinting wine, or sold cheaply as "vin vermeilh" or "pin pin". This amounted to about 15% . - Lord Alistair MacMillan, "Wine", Scum #16 For those who may wonder about Scum (as I do myself at times), it is (ahem, blush) the best brewer's newsletter in the Known Worlde. Contact me (Corwin) at Maunche at AOL.COM or c/o Douglas Brainard, 45 Southwind Way, Rochester, NY 14624 for more potable details. Corwin Scriba fermentatoris, Fermentator scribae! From: jtn at newsserver.uconn.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period wine? Date: 26 Aug 1995 03:50:45 GMT Organization: University of Connecticut Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Corwin responded to Gregoria: : particular, who inquires about period wine. Good Lord, The recipe for : Egurdouce was from the Forme of Cury, written for Richard II towards the : end of the 14th century. The recipe (as printed in Pleyn Delit) calls for : 'rede wine'. The wine you want to use would be a young Claret/Bordeaux, : or a Beaujolais, light red in color, and almost no oak characteristics. To : quote from _Scum_ and quoted a longish passage describing importing of wine from France. I only have three suggestions. First, the passages described importing both old and young wines; so either might be appropriate here. Second, I have seen receipes that call directly for claret. Were this one, I would agree that young wines _might_ be preferred; but it isn't. There were certainly red wines that weren't young. Third, by the 14th C, there are _recipes_ for clarrey -- and it isn't (always) young wine any more. Sometimes, it's spiced wine. Also: modern claret is a Bordeaux. (That is, don't confuse modern and medieval claret.) In any case, a young wine is certainly an option. Given that you complained of "harshness", you would want to be careful to pick a good young wine, that is light and fruity, and not sharp. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: maunche at aol.com (Maunche) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period wine? Date: 26 Aug 1995 20:43:52 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Greetings from Corwin of Darkwater Angharad makes some interesting comments about period wines. Here are some further points. The most popular wines in the 14th century were (in order of preference) sweet Mediterranean wines, white Rhenish wines, and Claret. The red wines of Burgundy were highly prized, and could still be drunk after two years, but were scarce and more difficult to obtain in England. Claret was definately a young wine, when a new vintage arrived from Bordeaux, the price of the previous vintage was usually cut in half (or the old wine was simply discarded). I would be interested in learning of recipes for 'clarrey', and recipes that use claret. The earliest recipe that I have for imitation claret dates from 1621, and uses Clary flowers. Corwin of Darkwater Scriba fermentatoris, Fermentator scribae! From: jtn at newsserver.uconn.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period wine? Date: 27 Aug 1995 02:20:19 GMT Organization: University of Connecticut Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Corwin of Darkwater writes: : I would be interested in learning of recipes for 'clarrey', and recipes : that use claret. The earliest recipe that I have for imitation claret : dates from 1621, and uses Clary flowers. Here are a few references, based on some work I've been doing on tracking ingredients in recipes from the 13th to 15th C. I've just begun on the 15th C, so this is very far from complete, even for that time period. Recipes for clarre, clarrey, or similar names (all recipies for spiced wine): 1. In the earlier Anglo-Norman collection edited by Constance Hieatt and Robin Jones in _Speculum_, 1986: a recipe called claree, from about 1290. 2. In the collection of miscellaneous recipes that they titled Goud Kokery (number V) in _Curye on Inglysch_, edited by Constance Hieatt and Sharon Butler, two recipes from about 1380 (GK 4 and 6) titled Potus clarreti pro domino and A pype of clarrey. 3. From Forme of Curye, using the Hieatt and Butler edition, recipe number 205 fo Clarrey, dated around 1390. None of these call for the herb clary. Recipes that call for clarrey or claret as an ingredient: mostly, I can tell you "white, red, or sweet"; but occasionally I noted when particular wines were called for. I found the following two, both from Austin's _Two Fifteenth Century Cookery-Books_. 1. Recipe number 5 in the Leche Vyaundez section of Harleian 279 (page 35 in Austin), for Leche lumbarde, says "take clareye, & caste [th]er-on in maner of a Syruppe" ("[th]" represents a thorn). This suggests that the thing intended is not young wine, but sweetened spiced wine. 2. The 94th recipe (but they are not explicitly numbered) in Harleian 4016 (page 86-87 in Austin), for Gely, specifies "take good white wyn, that woll hold colloure, or elles fyne claret wyne". Note: this recipe reproduces recipe number 109 in the Potage Dyvers section of Harleian 279 (page 25, Austin) for Gelye de chare almost precisely; but the version in Harleian 279 specifies only white wine. Notice that this probably is young wine, and not spiced wine -- but notice also that it is offered as an alternative to _white_, not red, wine. My experience with recipes suggests that there are actually two very different things pronounced roughly "CLAIRIE". One, most often spelled "clarre" or "clarey", is spiced wine. The other, most often spelled "claret", means a young red. I don't think the medievals confused them, but we certainly tend to. It's my impression, Corwin, that your information is drawn from the commercial import trade. Is that correct? If so, it's worth noticing that that may not reflect all, or even most, of the story. First, there is some reason to believe that the great households may have imported much of their wine directly, rather than going through merchants. If that is the case, then as the primary users of racked as opposed to young wines, their "invisibility" from the trade record would greatly skew it. Second, there are many kinds of wines specified in recipes quite early, including wyne greke, vernage, and several others, that Corwin's remarks don't reflect, but that are clearly assumed to be available. Also, there was substantial domestic wine production in England in the middle ages, that is not reflected in those records at all. Anyhow: there are a few recipes. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: maunche at aol.com (Maunche) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period wine? Date: 29 Aug 1995 23:38:56 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Salutations from Corwin of Darkwater First of all, thanks to Angharad ver' Rhuawn for the detailed references to clarrey, claret, etc. They have been most helpful. (In fact, I see a new article brewing for Scum) Angharad asks: > It's my impression, Corwin, that your information is drawn from the > commercial import trade. Is that correct? If so, it's worth > noticing that that may not reflect all, or even most, of the story. Indeed, much of the information that I posted was based on commercial records, but it was not my intent to imply that that was the whole story. > Also, there was substantial domestic wine production in England in > the middle ages, that is not reflected in those records at all. Very true. The Domesday Book commissioned by William the Conqueror mentioned 42 English vineyards. By 1509 there were 139. Again, thanks to Angharad for filling out the story. Corwin of Darkwater Scriba fermentatoris, Fermentator scribae! From: PHIRSCHE at email.usps.gov To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com Subject: Re[2]: Wine Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:19:45 -0500 I happened across an excellent book in Barnes and Noble: Johnson, Hugh. Vintage: The Story of Wine. Simon and Shuster: New York, 1989. Richard le Pochier From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:19:03 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Dandelion Wine Dyane McSpadden wrote: > A member of my local group asked me to ask if anyone out here has a recipe > for dandelion wine they can post and/or send, it seems he has a backyard > full of the little buggers :) From Jocasta Innes' "The Country Kitchen": DANDELION WINE Another flower classic. Pick the dandelions on a hot day, and use only the petals, pinching them off and discarding the centres and stalks. 2 litres (4 pints) dandelion petals 5 litres (1 gallon) water 1 kg (2 lb) sugar 225 g (8 oz) raisins 3 oranges 1 lemons (or 7 g/ 1/4 oz citric acid) 150 ml (1/4 pint) strong tea or 8 drops tannin concentrate 2 rounded teaspoons all purpose wine yeast 1 level teaspoon yeast nutrient The method is exactly the same as for gorse wine. GORSE WINE <ingredients snipped> Put the flowers into the fermenting bin immediately. Boil up half the water, half the sugar, and the chopped sultanas together for a minute or two, then pour over the flowers. Thinly peel the rind from the oranges and the lemons, and add to the bin. Squeeze out the juice and add that too. Add the cold tea, or the tannin, stir thoroughly. Make up to 5 litres (1 gallon) with cold tap water, or cooled boiled water if you prefer. This should give you a tepid mixture, about right for adding the yeast from the starter bottle. Add the yeast and the yeast nutrient, stir well, cover. Ferment for one week, stirring daily. After two ot three days, when fermenting well, add the remaining sugar, stirring to dissolve. Strain through a hair sieve or cloth and siphon into a 5 litre (1 gallon) jar. Fill up to the neck of the jar with cool, boiled water, if necessary ( the less surface area exposed with all wines, the better), fit an airlock or secure a plastic bag with an elastic band over the neck of the jar. Rack when clear, bottle and keep for six months. ***************************** Me again. Just a few comments directed at any beginning cooks/brewers/vintners: 1) I strongly recommend you use the metric measurements or recalculate the American measurements correctly. They are vague approximations at best and are significantly off. 2) Change any specific recipe references to reflect the fact that the method is intended for a different recipe. So, for sultanas, read raisins, etc. 3) This is not a period recipe. It calls for non-period ingredients being used in a non-period way. Substituting the tea for the tannin, etc., will not change this fact. There may be a dandelion or other flower wine similar to this in Sir Kenelm Digby, but then he's not a period source, either. If you have no problem with this, then neither do I. 4) I recommend that any aging instructions given in almost any British alcoholic beverage recipe be increased by a factor of 50%, but not to exceed a year, except in the case of things like an especially heavy stout or very strong mead. All that said, have a good time and enjoy. I, for one, will stick to my kvass! Adamantius From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:32:31 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Dandelion Wine Peters, Rise J. wrote: > Just to bring up a kind of gross point, every time I've looked closely at > dandelions, they've been inhabited by little bugs (I think red ones), I > assume some kind of mites. Do they just go in the wine and get filtered out > at the end, or is there some kind of process for getting them off the > flowers, or am I the only one who ever got that close to a dandelion to > worry about it? All of the above (more or less). I wonder if that's why the recipe I posted says they should be gathered on a hot day... Adamantius From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Dandelion Wine In a message dated 97-05-12 13:28:11 EDT, you write: << Just to bring up a kind of gross point, every time I've looked closely at dandelions, they've been inhabited by little bugs (I think red ones), I assume some kind of mites. >> They are a type of thrip. They are harmless to the wine and to people. Since you have to remove the green part of the dandelion flower and good kitchen technique would include a rinsing of the petals after they were picked and cleaned, the vast majority of these thrips are eliminated. I also throw my petals into a wire strainer while removing the green parts from them which allows the thrips and other sources of potentially valuable protein 8-) to slip through the holes. Lord Ras From: "PHYLLIS SPURR" <PSPURR at r03.tdh.state.tx.us> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:23:32 -0600 Subject: Re: SC - Dandelion Wine > A member of my local group asked me to ask if anyone out here has a recipe > for dandelion wine they can post and/or send, it seems he has a backyard > full of the little buggers :) > > Brigid O'Brien You can also use Dandelions to make a melomel. Pick your dandelion flower heads - remove as much of the green stem as possible and clean free of pests. 5 lbs honey 1 gal of water 4 pints of dandelion flowers 1 orange 2 sticks of cinnamon 1 oz of fresh ginger, chopped 1 pkg of yeast, I've used Cote des Blanc with good results Place your clean dandelion flowers in a sterilized jar that will hold at least 1.5 gal of fluid. Heat your water and add honey, stirring constantly until dissolved. Do not boil as the honey may burn and it can drive away the essence of the honey. It won't ruin the must if it boils, but the honey will lose some of its flavor. Skim away any scum that rises. When no more scum rises, add the cinnamon, ginger, and squeeze the juice of the orange into the mixture, slice and add the orange (peel and all). Additional scum will rise at this point. Skim away scum until no more rises. At least five minutes. Remove the must from heat and pour over the dandelion flowers. Allow to steep until the temperature of the must is about 70 degrees Fahrenheit. Strain through cheesecloth to remove the solids from the must. At this point, you may determine the specific gravity using a hydrometer. Add your yeast to the must and place in a carboy under fermentation lock. In about 2-3 weeks, you will need to rack the must off the settled yeast into another carboy. Allow to continue working, until the melomel is clear, racking into a clean carboy as the yeast settles. This may take a couple of months. Rack off into bottles. Cork. Store and allow to age. This is a still melomel, in that there is no carbonation. Just be sure that your must is finished working before bottling, you don't want your bottles to explode. This is really sweet, almost syrup-like after a year. By the way, the above was made by me last June and this past weekend, it won 2nd place in a brewing competition. Phyllis L. Spurr aka Eowyn ferch Rhys, Elfsea From: Lasairina at aol.com Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Re: Dandelion Wine From the book, "How To Make Wine In Your Own Kitchen," by Mettja C. Roate... Plain Dandelion Wine 1st Week: 4 quarts of dandelion flowers, cleaned of all their green 4 quarts of boiling water 2nd Week: 4 oranges cut in 1/4" slices 4 lemons cut in 1/4" slices 1 cup white raisins, finely chopped 6 cups sugar 1 package dry granulated yeast Put the dandelion blossoms in canner kettle and pour the boiling water over them. Let stand in a warm place for one week. Stir twice a day if possible. At the end of the week, strain the blossoms through a jelly bag, squeezing the pulp very dry to extract all of the liquid and flavour. Return the liquid to the canner kettle and add the sliced oranges and lemons, and the raisins. Stir in the sugar; be sure to stir long enough to dissolve every grain. Sprinkle the dry granulated yeast over the surface. Set in a warm place to ferment for two weeks. Stir every day, inverting the fruit which rises to the surface. At the end of this two-week period, strain through several thicknesses of cheesecloth, and return to the canner kettle to settle for two more days. When the wine has settled, siphon off carefully into clean sterilized bottles. Put corks in lightly until all fermentation is over ( it has stopped when small bubbles no longer cling to the sides of the bottles.) Then tighten the corks securely and dip in hot paraffin. Let the wine age at least 6 months; it is best at the end of a year. - -------------------- I have not personally made this one (never could come up with that many dandelions) and there are several other interesting titles - Dandelion Pineapple Wine, Dandelion Rhubarb Pineapple Wine, and Dandelion Elderberry Blossom Wine are some. Hope this helps! Lasairfhiona From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Grapes << There is a HUGE Concord Grape vine(s) growing in my new backyard. I was told by neighbors that it yielded gallons of grapes last year. Does anyone know of anything within period that these could be used for? All the talk of cordials/liqueurs has me hoping. Same neighbor made 23 bottles of wine from them. ~Lady Irissa >> Sorry. The Labrusca (concord) grape variety is New World no questions, do not pass go, do not collect $200.oo. :-) More appropriate varieties would be Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Grigio, Gewurtzraminer, Zinfandel (questionable), Sauvignon Blanc, Valipolicella (species unknown to me), Riesling, Chardonnay, Sangoivese, Chamborcin, Merlot, etc. The Labrusca grapes (e.g. Concord, Catawba, Niagra) are without exception New World varieties and were not used in Europe until the late 1800's C.E. They were then only used (as they still are) for root stock on which to graft the European varities to prevent further dessicration of the vineyards by the Phyloxera plague. (Which by the way is currently destroying the vineyards in California at an alarming rate). More to the point the foxy taste of New World labrusca varieties is totally alien with regards to the flavor of Old World varieties and can not be satisfactorily substituted under any circunstances. Lord Ras (Uduido at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:01:52 -0500 From: roger boulet <boulet.roger at mcleod.net> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Period grape varieties For those interested in the history of grapes and wine I reccommend this book "DIONYSIS, A Social History of the Wine Vine" by Edward Hyams, Sedgwick & Jackson, London 1987 ISBN 0-283-99432-0. The author attempts to trace the histroy of grape growing from it's beginning to modern times using archeological evidence and genotype information. It's been some time since I read the book but I do remember that several varieties still cultivated trace to pre roman times including the Pinot Noir. He also deals with new world vines. Roger From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Foods that I won't eat I would have said that a majority of the surviving medieval recipes which call for sweetener call for sugar rather than honey. In particular, our favorite mulled wine (hippocras) recipe uses sugar. Agreed so far: I note, however, that your redaction uses boiling wine, when the original calls for mixing with regular wine. I have had hippocras made both ways (a friend has a source that involves pouring the wine through a pile of spiced sugar, without boiling). I have found that, overall, the taste of unboiled hippocris is superior. Your mileage and tastes will vary, of course. "and two quarters of sugar and mix them with a quart of wine" [original] "sugar to 2 quarts of boiling wine" [redaction] Tibor Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 09:33:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Ladypeyton at aol.com Subject: SC - Rose Hip Wine Recipe I used dried Rose Hips, but I included all the information for using fresh that I could find in my books. Note: the only period recipes I could find was from either Apicius or Pliny and used only Rose Petals. The recipe makes 1 gallon. If you are using a larger carboy then just multiply the ingredients accordingly. - -1 gallon water - -6oz dried rose hips soaked overnight (keep the water) or 2 lbs fresh make sure they are unsprayed - -1 1/2 lbs white sugar + 1/2 lb brown sugar or 3 lbs light (read table) honey - -1 tsp acid blend + 1 squeeze lemon juice or juice of 1 lemon - -1 tsp yeast nutrient - -5 drops pectic enzyme (liquid) or 1/2 tsp (powder) - -1 cup white grape juice concentrate (I used Welch's) - -1 packet Wine Yeast (I used Premier Cuvee) - -OPTIONAL 1 Campden Tablet (I never use campden tablets because I don't like sulfites in my wine A LOT of people are allergic to sulfites and don't realize it therefore assuming they can't tolerate wine when it is an (I believe)unneeded additive they are reacting to.) *Acid blend, yeast nutrient, pectic enzyme, wine yeast are all available at your local wine making supply store. There is probably one in your area if you really look. I was surprised to find I have more than 4 within a half hour drive. On the other hand I live in Philadelphia. If you absolutely cannot find a supplier there are several mail order catalogs available and several suppliers on the web. * Rinse and pick over your rose hips. If your rose hips are dried soak overnight & drain (save liquid) if they are fresh then coarsely chop them in a blender. Put the rose hips in a jelly bag or a nylon straining bag. Place in the bottom of your primary fermenter. Mash them with your sanitized hands. Pour sugar over bag. Pour hot water (not boiling) over bag and sugar and stir until the sugar is dissolved . If you use honey then do boil the honey & water together for at 20 minutes (breaks down the honey & helps your finished product to clear quicker & easier). Cool slightly before pouring over rose hips. When tepid add acid, yeast nutrient, grape juice & if you use one the campden tablet. If you do not use the campden tablet then must cools add pectic enzyme & wine yeast. If you do use campden tablet then wait 12 hours then add pectic enzyme 12 hours later add yeast. Cover tightly & fit with an air lock. Stir daily squishing the bag for a week. After 2 weeks siphon into a glass carboy & fit with an air lock. After 4 more weeks rack to a clean carboy (I usually siphon into my primary fermenter, clean the carboy I've been using all along & siphon back into the carboy) I top off the carboy with the soaking water I saved at the beginning of the procedure. You can also top off with white grape juice although the added sugar will extend your fermenting process. After 2 more weeks you should be able to bottle your wine. 1 gallon must makes about 4 bottles wine. A primary fermenter is a pail with a cover that is made out of food grade plastic. It is available at your wine making supply store for at $10. A carboy is a glass container that looks like the top of a water cooler upside down and is at $5 to $15 depending on the size. Air locks are little water locks that fit into rubber bungs that fit into 1)the hole drilled into the top of the primary fermenter cover (small bung) & 2) the opening in the carboy (larger bung). You will need 2 rubber bungs (1 of each size). Air locks & rubber bungs are at $1 each. You must always sanitize your equipment before starting. There are sterilizing agents sold at supply stores or you can use the same bleach mixture used to wash dishes at events. I use a compound called "One Step" no rinsing is needed with this compound as it cleans with oxygen. At any other time you MUST rinse your equipment after it is sterilized. Please be strict with your sterilization. Don't even so much as use a spoon to stir the must if you haven't prepared it. Same with your hands. I just had Adrian, who is wine making illiterate, read over this to see if I've left anything undefined and he said it was pretty easy to understand. However, he may have picked up some of the lingo by osmosis so if I've left anything unclear, undefined or unexplained please let me know. I'm preparing to teach an introduction to wine making class and am still trying to work the lingo out of my presentation. I'm pretty nervous as this will be my first expedition into teaching. By the way the Apicius recipe went: Make rose wine in this manner: rose petals, the lower white part removed, sewed into a linen bag and immersed in wine for seven days. Thereupon add a sack of new petals which allow to draw for another seven days. Again remove the old petals and replace them by fresh ones for another week; then strain the wine through the colander. Before serving add honey sweetening to taste. Take care that only the best petals free from dew be used for soaking. Lady Peyton Ladypeyton at aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 14:04:46 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - kegs and barrels >According to the catalog these barrels are "lined with parafin for water >tightness", so it sounds as if they have been designed to hold liquids. As to >whether or not brewers pitch is period I am not sure. I have been looking for >it to use to seal the interior of leather bottles and mugs. I do know it is >made from natural pine tar. > >Noemi "...But it may also be proper to give an account of the method of preparing wine, as Greek authors have written special treatises on this subject and have made a scientific system for it -for instance Euphronius, Aristomachus, Commiades and Hicesius. The practice in Africa is to soften any roughness with gypsum, and also in some parts of the country with lime. In Greece, on the other hand, they enliven the smoothness of their wines with potter's earth or marble dust or salt or sea-water, while in some parts of Italy they use resinous pitch for this purpose, and it is the general practice both there and in the neighbouring provinces to season must with resin; in some places they use the lees of older wine or else vinegar for seasoning... In some places they boil the must down into what is called sapa, and pour this into their wines to overcome their harshness. *** Still both in the case of this kind of wine and in all others they supply the vessels themselves with coatings of pitch... *** The method of seasoning wine is to sprinkle the must with pitch during its first fermentation, which is completed in nine days at most, so that the wine may be given the scent of pitch and some touches of its piquant flavour..." Pliny , Natural History, c. 77 A.D., Book XIV, section XXIV, pp. 265-269. (Excerpted from "A Sip Through Time", p. 244.) Cindy Renfrow renfrow at skylands.net http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 01:01:58 EDT From: melc2newton at juno.com (Michael P Newton) Subject: Re: SC - birch A recipe recently found for birch leaf wine (Actually a leaf wine in general recipe; since I live in Oak Heart, I am going to do the oak leaf wine this next spring): Pick 4 qts. of very young oak or birch leaves in the early spring when the leaves are the size of a mouse's ear. Pour four pints of boiling water over the leaves, let stand for a day, and then strain. Warm the liquid to dissolve two lbs. of sugar ( I think I'm going to use honey instead and make it a oakleaf mead). Add one half cup lemon juice and when cool, one tablespoon of yeast. Add water to make a volume of one gallon, and ferment. Lady Beatrix Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:10:15 +1100 From: Meliora & Drake <meliora at macquarie.matra.com.au> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu, sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Rhenish Wine?? At 03:07 PM 6/01/98 -0500, Margritte wrote: >Hope this isn't a stupid question, but I'm far from being a wine maven... > >If a recipe calls for "good Rhenish wine", what should I use? > >>From "A Queen's Delight": > >To make Rasberry Wine. >Take a Gallon of good Rhenish Wine, put into it as much Rasberries very >ripe as will make it strong, put it in an earthen pot, and let it stand two >dayes, then pour your Wine from your Rasberries, and put into every bottle >two ounces of Sugar, stop it up and keep it by you. > >-Margritte I've done this recipe with a cheap flagon of Rhine Reisling and the results were fantastic. I never had one complaint about the brew. You could probably use other wines and it would matter that much as the Raspberries are the dominant flavour. Some brewing tips though: 1) Don't add 2oz of sugar per bottle other wise you will end up with grenades, a maximum of 1tsp of sugar per 750ml bottle. 2) Use Beer bottles or Champagne bottles (with corks and WIRES). If you use wine bottles then the pressure will ease the corks out of the bottles. 3) Add just 1-2 grains of yeast to each bottle. Modern wine is so finely filtered that it is hard to get a fermentation going again to gas the bottles. The recipe is one that is meant to be 'windy' or carbonated. 4) If you reduce the raspberries with a little sugar to a syrup and then filter the syrup and then add the syrup to the wine then your will get a finer product. Don't activate the pectin in the raspberries or you will get a haze in the wine you can't clear. If you do get a haze the Pectinase from the Home-Brew shop will clear it. Even better, I can buy (here in Australia) raspberry syrup which goes great in brewing recipes. 5) Good luck, it's a very tasty and easy recipe and I applaud you good judgement in choosing this recipe. Drake Morgan, Lochac. Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:07:29 -0600 (CST) From: "J. Patrick Hughes" <jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu> To: sca-arts at listproc.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Rhenish Wine?? Lady Peyton asked "I was under the impression that this [a blight that caused the vines to be rooted to American stems] was true for most of Europe's wine regions is this true?" Yes, in the 1870s the insect phylloxera attacked and destroyed most European vineyards. Virtually every vine in Europe was then only saved by being grafted to an American root and stem. Again, the Ladey commented: "As for the question of taste changing. My research shows that period wines were fermented for a much shorter period and hardly aged worth mentioning compared to modern wines which would result in a sweeter end product. Which is why I recommended a Reisling as the best substitute." You are again correct. My research also shows that most wines in Germany and France were drunk much younger and were not as alcoholic as modern wines. (They often watered the wines to make them go further.) There was also much less scientific processing and control than in modern wines. The result was that many of the recipes that we have from period on how to spice or doctor wine. The original request was regarding one such recipe. If the person involved does not wish to start from scratch and do the vintning (the people in period that used the recipe did not) then you were right to suggest a Reisling as that is the favored grape in the Rhineland (there is a modern taste for Sylvaner). My caution that the taste would vary from period is best summed up in a quote from Hugh Johnsons World Atlas of Wine: "German wines of the last century would be scarcely more familiar to us. It is doubtful whether any of todays pale, rather sweet, intensely perfumed wines were made. Grapes picked earlier gave more acid wine which needed longer to mature in cask. People like the flavour of oak - or even the flavor of oxidation from too much contact with the air. Old brown hock was a recommendation, whereas today it would be as rude a remark as you could write on a tasting card." Of course the 19th century was very into aging as opposed to the Middle ages where they tried to get the wine to the drinker before it turned vinegar. The bottom line is that if one were to attempt to recreate the German wines of period it would be necessary to do oak barrel fermenting rather than bottle fermenting (out of period practice) and look for a younger, deeper colored, less bouquet characterized, Reisling. I have found the number of people in the society willing to do a period style wine and people willing to develop a period pallet are vanishing rare. Note that wines fermented from other fruits without the grape base are and were known in Germany. They were called "hexen" wines and were looked down on as the product of "the old witches in the Black Forest that could not produce true wine." But the recipe indicated that what was intended was a doctoring of a grape wine not a fruit wine. Charles O'Connor jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:39:46 +1000 From: "HICKS, MELISSA" <HICKS_M at casa.gov.au> Subject: SC - RECIPE: Gooseberry Wine >Coincidentally I found a Gooseberry wine recipe in La Varenne last night >(17th century I know). For those that asked, following is the Gooseberry Wine recipe out of La Varenne ..... Regards Meliora. > How to make Goofeberry Wine. > > Take the Goofeberries and prefs the Juice from them, and ftrain it > very well; then take as much water as the quantity of the Juice is, > and Boyl with refined Sugar, about the quantity of one Pound to a > Gallon of Wine (when it is mix'd with your Water) then mix the Juice > and water together, and fine it with Ifinglafs, as before directed, > after the rate of an Ounce to Ten Gallons and when the Scum is raifed > to the top, take it off, and the Liquor will be clear; then draw it > into your Veffels, and it will finifh its Fermentation, and in a > Months time it will be fit for Bottling, put into each Bottle a piece > of Sugar. > > Currant and Rasbery Wines are after the fame manner, only the Currants > when too Ripe are Sower, therefore muft be pull'd when juft Ripe; and > Goofeberries the longer they are on the Tree, the fweeter they are. > > An Appricock or Peach bruifed, and put into a Bottle of any of thefe > Wines, will give them a curious Flavour, and brisk Tafte. Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 08:24:01 -0500 From: "Norman White" <gn-white at tamu.edu> Subject: SC - When did they start aging wine? -Reply -Reply Jin Liu Ch'ang here: David/Cariadoc asked in a post on June 29th about the history of aging wine. It took me awhile to remember to pull out the copy of William Turner's 1568 book, "A Book of Wines" which I have checked out from the library. Apparently, from what I can gleam from the words of William Turner, aging of wines was well known in England in his time period. Apparently, however, most people drank wine still in the act of fermenting and freshly fermented wine which he called (and what I believe is still called) must. I guess this is much like the many people who go to their liquor store in the present and buy fresh (1-2 year old) wine and, rather than placing it in their wine cellars, drink it right away. In his capacity as an medicinal herbalist and scientist, he considered this to be wrong and stated reasons against this and quoted earlier writers including Galen and Aloisius Mundella in his arguments. He quoted Galen as defining wine not five years old as new wine, wine 5-10 years old as middle aged and wine over 10 years old as old aged. As would probably occur in present times, he found that experts disagree on the times for aging wines as Aloisuis Mundella considered the dividing age between new and middle aged wine to be six years. He also discussed the varieties of wine available in England from the wine import trade naming them by where they originated, their color, age, taste, and smell. As a physician/herbalist, he also delineated wine by their dry/moist and cold/hot character. All wine was considered hot to some degree. An old wine was considered hotter than a new wine and yellow and red wines were hotter than white wines. The dryness was accorded to the degree of heat along with sweetness. In his opinion, young people being naturally hot should not drink wine as all wines are hot to some degree. If they were to drink, as the young are hot and moist they should drink dry white wines while the older people being more cold and dry should drink sweet red wines which are more hot and less dry. From his discussion, it is apparent that aging wines was quite common in 16th Century England and a variety of wines were available for consumption, although like present times most wines were not aged to the degree that the wine makers would have preferred. His complaints about the drinking of too young wine are very similar to views I have hear from modern commercial vintners who complain about people buying their wines and drinking them right away instead of aging them properly. Norman White a.k.a. Jin Liu Ch'ang gn-white at tamu.edu Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:21:42 -0400 From: "Marilyn Traber" <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - When did they start aging wine? >At 1:31 AM -0600 6/29/98, Stefan li Rous wrote: >>The young, small ale drunk >>by the majority of folks in period will likely lose out to the fine, >>aged wine drunk by an extemely small portion of the populace. > >I was recently reading a biography of Pepys (late 17th century). The author >said that the use of corks was just coming in at the time, and associated >that change with the introduction of aged wines. Of course, wines could be >aged earlier in the cask, but the implication semed to be that it was only >with the introduction of corked bottles that long aging, concern about >vintages, etc. appeared. > >Does anyone know what the facts on this are? Is the "extremely small >portion" actually zero in our period? > >David/Cariadoc My take on the subject is a bit skewed. Could it be interpreted to mean that the rich who could afford to buy wine in the cask to age and the invention of corked bottles allowed us common scum to buy just a little bit of wine in a more affordable form to age? I buy single bottles of promising wines to age and the 17 litre boxes to use for immediate drinking and cooking. If I had to buy 17 litres of a more expensive wine, I wouldn't. The cost would be prohibitive, and I would soon run out of the small amount of room that I have suitable for aging wines. margali Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:11:24 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Period wine-French The following French vineyards have produced wine since the Middle Ages with a few dating from 279 C.E. using the grape varieties still grown in and used today. Clos de Beze Corton-Charlemagne Le Romanee Clos de Vougeot Merseult Montrachet These vineyards were controlled by the Church in the Middle Ages. The wine of these vineyards was much sought after by medieval gourmets as they are in the current middle ages. The wines of these houses were called 'wines of Auxerre,' then later 'wines of Baeume' and finally in the 1400s the 'wines of Burgundy' by which name they are still referred to. French grape varieties grown in the Middle Ages included Granache, Cabernet Franc, Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot along with Pinot Noir, Pinot Blanc, Chardonnay and Gamay. The last four being some of the most ancient varieties. For more authenticity, and if you can afford them, you might try wines from Le Romanee-Conti or Le Mussigny. These two vineyards are among a handful that still grow there vines on native stock instead of getting their grapes off from vines that have been grafted onto phylloxera resistant American root stock. I would remind you that, contrary to popular opinion, the stock in no way has any affect whatsoever on the vines that are grafted onto them other than providing protection from phylloxera. Taste, flavor or the resulting wine is the same as those vines growing on native stock. Ras Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:50:47 -0500 From: Marilyn Traber <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - gingerbrede Max was by tonight and was very pleased to get the brewing recipes, and he concurs that the oak leaf brew was something to fake out oak cask aging for a wine. . margali gwin dail derw - oak leaf wine for each gallon: a quantity of clean brown withered oak leaves gathered from the tree on a dry day, bruised piece of whole giger, 4 lbs white sugar, 1 lb chopped rasins, 1/2 oz yeast place the leaves in a china or earthenware vessel and pour sufficient boiling water over them to cover. infuse for 4-5 days, then strain off through muslin. Boil this liquid, adding a piece of bruised ginger and 4 lbs of sugar. After 20 minutes boiling, allow to cool to luke warm and return to the earthenware vessel. Now add the 1 lb of chopped rasins and 1/2 oz yeast.Cover well and allow to ferment for 16 days, then strain and bottle. The wine will be ready to drink in three months but improves with keeping. Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:20:46 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - gingerbrede Marilyn Traber wrote: > Max was by tonight and was very pleased to get the brewing recipes, > and he concurs that the oak leaf brew was something to fake out oak cask aging > for a wine. > margali Oak leaves may also have been added to provide tannin as a yeast nutrient. You still occasionally find it being added in pure form to modern mead recipes. Markham's Strong Ale recipe calls for leafy oak branches to be added at the end, while the wort is still hot, IIRC. It certainly does give the stuff an oaky flavor, but it's not necessarily the specific effect they were after, if you know what I mean. Adamantius Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:41:53 EST From: melc2newton at juno.com Subject: Oak leaf wine (was Re: SC - gingerbrede) On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:50:47 -0500 Marilyn Traber <margali at 99main.com> writes: >Max was by tonight and was very pleased to get the brewing recipes, >and he concurs that the oak leaf brew was something to fake out oak cask aging >for a wine. >margali >gwin dail derw - oak leaf wine >for each gallon: >a quantity of clean brown withered oak leaves gathered from the tree on a dry >day, bruised piece of whole giger, 4 lbs white sugar, 1 lb chopped rasins, 1/2 >oz yeast Well, this is curious! the Oak leaf recipe I have calls for new oak leaves, not bigger than a squirrel's ear, and no rasins!?! Mine is from _Beer and Wines of Old New England_, Where did Max find his? I used a quart of squirrel's sized oak leaves, and steeped, as for tea, and then added 2 1/2 lbs of clover honey ( the recipe called for 2 lbs of sugar, but I thought a oak leaf mead would be more interesting), for a gallon's worth. I think the yeast I used was a wine yeast; I'd have to go find my brewing notebook to find out which one, tho'. Since it was a mead, rather than a wine, I'm waiting a year, before I try it . Beatrix Oakheart/Calontir Springfield, Mo Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 18:24:26 -0500 From: capriest at cs.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: liquers/cordials >Does anybody have a source for period liquer/cordial recipes? >Morgaine of Glastonbury | AUTHOR: Arnaldus, de Villanova, d. 1311. | TITLE: The earliest printed book on wine, | PLACE: New York, |PUBLISHER: Schuman's, | YEAR: 1943 | PUB TYPE: Book | FORMAT: 44 p., facsim. ([30] p.), incl. front. (port.) 1 col. illus. 26 | cm. | NOTES: Translation and facsimile of Der tractat Arnoldi de Noua villa, | von bewarug vn beraitug der wein, 1478, Wilhelm von Hirnkofen's | version of the Tractatus de vinis. | "Limited to three hundred and fifty copies." | SUBJECT: Wine and wine making. | Wine -- Therapeutic use. | OTHER: Hirnkofen, Wilhelm von, called Renwart, fl.1478, tr. The reference, Arnaldus of Villanova's book about wines and winemaking, also contains several medicinal cordial recipes. Mainly they involve steeping herbs in wine for various health reasons. There are no SCA-style sweet cordials in the book, but there is one that I'm very fond of, called something like "wine that's good for the whole body." It's wine boiled with sugar, rose water, and some spices, and you're supposed to drink a few ounces of it at a time. Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth capriest at cs.vassar.edu Frostahlid, Austrriki Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:48:20 -0500 From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net> Subject: Re: SC - hypocras question From: Terri Spencer <taracook at yahoo.com>: >So, does