Home Page

Stefan's Florilegium

infusions-msg



This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

infusions-msg - 3/4/08

 

Period infusions. Herbal "teas". Barley tea, tisane.

 

NOTE: See also the files: tea-msg, wine-msg, spiced-wine-msg, jalabs-msg, beer-msg, herbs-msg, rice-msg, grains-msg.

 

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given by the individual authors.

 

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:00:15 -0800

From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Herbal infusions

 

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:

> You may be right here but the drinking of such infusions were almost if not

> entirely for medicinal purposes.  It does not surprise me that there is no

> mention of this in period cookery sourses. To research this information, IMHO,

> you would have to turn to herbals and medicinal manuals.

>

> Ras

 

The following are some medieval sources for tisane. I thought tisane

meant "barley water" so perhaps if I go look again I'll find more

tisanes that are "herb water." Please remember nearly all of these are

translations perhaps the word tisance was used for convenience.

 

What does "stampe" mean in 14th century english/context of making violet

water?

 

Thanks,

Crystal of the Westermark

 

Anthimus. De Observatio Ciborum. circa 526CE. Translated by Weber,

Shirley Howard. _Anthimus, De Observatio Ciborum: Text, Commentary and

Glossary with a Study of the Latinity. DissertationÉ_. Published by E.J.

Brill Ltd., Leiden 1924.

 

LXIIII Of Tisane

Tisane which is made of barley, if anyone knows how to make it, is good

for well people and for those with a feverÉ. Diluted with warm wine, a

teaspoon of it well mixed should be sipped slowly on a empty stomachÉ.

We usually give this to those with a fever, not thick, but diluted with

clear warm water. It is agreeable also during periods of fasting, in

Lent, to take this with hot water by all meansÉ.

 

Maimonides, Moses (1135-1204 CE). _Maqalah Fi Bayan Ba'D Al-A'Rad

Wa-A;-Jawab 'Anha Ma'Amar Ha-Hakra'Ah_. edited and translated by

Leibowitz, JO and Marcus, S. _Moses Maimonides on the Causes and

Symptoms (Maqalah Fi Bayan Ba'D Al-A'Rad Wa-A;-Jawab 'Anha Ma'Amar

Ha-Hakra'Ah [and] De Causis Accidentium)_ Published by University of

California Press, Berkeley, CA. 1974. ISBN 0-520-02224-6 LCCCN 71-187873

 

page 147

...barley kashk, prepared every day.... Its description in accordance

with the needs of our master is as follows: Take polished barley, six

months after it is harvested, forty drams; chopped seeds of fumitory,

chopped seeds of Iraqi poppy, two drams; chopped moistened white

sandalwood, one dram; nard, a fourth of a dram; dill flowers, half a

dram; olive oil from the Magrib or Syria, yellow of color and free from

bitter taste, three drams. The whole of these should be put together in

an earthen pot. Pour into this pot one thousand drams of water, and heat

it over a charcoal fire until half the water evaporates. Then pour into

it six drams of wine vinegar. Its cooking is completed when less than a

fourth of it remains, and its color appears red. Then filter it, and add

to the filtrate half a dram of salt....

 

Henslow, G. Rev. Professor. editor. _Medical Works of the Fourteenth

Century Together with a List of Plants Recorded in Contemporary Writing

with the Identifications_. Published by Burt Franklin, New York, NY,

1972. ISBN 0-8337-1666-2.

 

Page 28 MS. [A]

If a man-ys bon ys broke. - Take violet and stampe hit with water and

drynke hit and his schal caste out the brokyn bon.

 

Page 46 MS. [A]

For the quinsie. - Take colymbyn and fetherouyghe and the leuys of

confery and stampe hem to-gedre and drynke the ius with stale ale.

 

Ratti, Oscar. and Westbrook, Adele. Translators and adaptors. _The

Medieval Health Handbook_. Orginal Italian edition, _Tacinum Sanitatis_.

Lusia Arano, editor. Publsihed by George Braziller, Inc. New York. 1976

ISBN 0-8076-0808-4

 

>From the Tacuinum of Liege:

 

106. Barley Water (Aqua Ordey)

Nature: Cold and dry in the second degree. Optimum: That which has been

thoroughly boiled and is mild. Usefulness: For the inflamed stomach.

Dangers: It is harmful for cold intestines. Neutralization of the

dangers: With sugar. Effects: Temperate blood. It is suitable for warm

temperaments, for young people, in Summer and in Southerly regions.

(Vienna, f. 45)

 

_Le Menagier de Paris_. (The Goodman of Paris, c. 1395) Translated by

Janet Hinson. Reprinted in _A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance

Cookbooks: First Compiled by Duke Cariadoc of the Bow and The Duchess

Diana Alena_. Fifth Edition (1992) Volume Two, published privately. Page

M38-39 Beverages for Invalids

 

Sweet Tisane

Take water and boil it, then add for each sixth of a gallon of water one

good bowl of barley, and it does not (or it does not matter? - Trans) if

it (p. 238) still has its hulls, and get two parisis' worth of licorice,

item, or figs, and boil it all until the barley bubbles; then let it be

strained in two or three cloths, and put in each goblet a large amount

of rock-sugar. This barley is good to feed to poultry to fatten them.

Note that good licorice is the youngest, and when cut is a lively

greenish colour, and if it is old it is more insipid and dead, and dry.

 

Eberhards. _Das Kochbuch Meister Eberhards_ circa 1500 CE. Translated by

Alia Atlas. Published on-line akatlas at csbu.edu

 

#27 Barley swells and cools and does not feed well and hurts all those

who have the affliction, and who become cold nature or who have colic in

the body. But for hot people and those who would be smaller, it is good.

And one eats or drinks it with fennel seeds, so it is good for many

afflictions in the breast, and Avincenna says that barley water harms

the stomach which is cold. It is also very good for feverish people.

 

 

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:55:08 -0800

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Herbal infusions

 

HI all from Anne-Marie

Crystal "Beverage Woman" asks...

>

> What does "stampe" mean in 14th century english/context of making violet

> water?

>

> Page 28 MS. [A]

> If a man-ys bon ys broke. - Take violet and stampe hit with water and

> drynke hit and his schal caste out the brokyn bon.

>

> Page 46 MS. [A]

> For the quinsie. - Take colymbyn and fetherouyghe and the leuys of

> confery and stampe hem to-gedre and drynke the ius with stale ale.

 

We always interpreted it to be stamp as in to squish together, usually with

a mortar and pestle.. In the case of the violet one, I would say to moosh

it with some water.

 

- --Anne-Marie

 

 

Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:57:36 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Question on tea

 

> infusion might be the word.  I've asked a couple of folks

> not on the list if they can be of help.

> Serian

 

Infusion is a perfectly good word for what it is; you might also

investigate use of the word "tansy", which, while it has been used to

refer to an herb by that name, and an egg dish containing it, and I'm

not aware of the source of that name, has also been used as a corruption

for the word "athanasia", which means, roughly, "banishing death".

Whether that usage has any link to the herb tansy I don't know, but I

have heard "tansy" used to describe infusions of herbs other than tansy itself.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:48:26 -0500

From: "Gaylin J. Walli" <gwalli at ptc.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Question on tea

 

Master A answered:

>Infusion is a perfectly good word for what [an herbal tea] is; you might also

>investigate use of the word "tansy", which, while it has been used to

>refer to an herb by that name, and an egg dish containing it, and I'm

>not aware of the source of that name, has also been used as a corruption

>for the word "athanasia", which means, roughly, "banishing death".

>Whether that usage has any link to the herb tansy I don't know, but I

>have heard "tansy" used to describe infusions of herbs other than

>tansy itself.

 

In the vast majority of period sources that I've read for the time

period, "tansy" as a term for herbal infusion is not used. I've not

read all of them. Yet. :) But I've never come across the word tansy

in the sense to which you refer in anything late period (i.e post 1450).

Can you point me to a reference?

 

The link in usage to the herb doesn't come up in any of the dictionaries,

old or new, that I own, but perhaps someone with a copy of the OED

handy can  check.

 

In addition to the word "tea" I personally would look for these words:

 

broth

decoction

diffusion

infusion

oyl

syrup

tisane

 

Iasmin de Cordoba, gwalli at ptc.com or iasmin at home.com

 

 

Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 01:25:36 +0100

From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: Re: SC - Question on tea

 

Two kinds of sources for infusions, decoctions etc. might be worth

checking:

 

(1) the herbals: generally speaking, their "virtue"-section is a place,

where the use of a plant for decoctions is mentioned (e.g. "The

decoction of the field Daisie (which is the best for physicks use) made

in water and drunke, is good against agues"; from an abbreviated ed. of

Gerarde's Herball).

 

(2) the vaste literature on distillation of non-alcoholic "burnt"

waters, which seem to be more or less concentrated herb decoctions.

 

TH.

 

 

Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 21:24:54 -0500

From: harper at idt.net

Subject: SC - Herbal infusions

 

This discussion has prompted me to dig out a translation I was

working on a while ago.  It's part of the chapter on water from Luis

Lobera de Avila's 1530 health manual, _Banquete de Nobles

Caballeros_.  What follows is the first half of that chapter, which

discusses medicinal herb teas.  The rest, which is written in a very

difficult, scholarly Spanish, is mostly quoting Galen, Avicenna, and

Arnaldus of Villanova on the properties of water.

 

I know the person who asked was primarily interested in English

practice, and this of course, is Spanish.  But perhaps it may be of

interest.  Disclaimer: I don't know what half these herbs are, and

am not making any statements about their usefulness or safety.

 

 

CHAPTER XII

 

Of the quality and use of water and of the benfits and dangers of it

 

It is well manifest that water is cold and humid in nature and because of

this, Galen, in the first tractate, _De simplici medicina_ says that it is

thickening and congealing.  Thus, the best of the spring waters is that

which has its origin or birth in the rising of the sun, and when it is

highest and is most continuous and lightest and does not diminish in its

heat, it is better.  Even better is if it were from clear stones, without

notable flavor or odor.   And it is better if this is rainwater, well

preserved, caught at the times of your choosing.  So Diascorides showed

in his first chapter, where he says that in all the illnesses for which we

need to administer water, rainwater is the best of all. And this is shown

by its being lighter and pleasanter to the taste, and quicker to digest and

quicker to receive cold or heat into itself.  And therefore, in various

illnesses and in various stages of them it is licit for us to administer cold

water, or according to the diversity of illnesses one should cook the

water with some of various things, because by itself the heating loses a

large part of [the water’s] rawness.  Because just as its rawness is often

dangerous, so its qualities, cold and humid, in various parts and in

various illnesses are very medicinal.  An example of the first: of cooked

water in various afflictions, if the tendency is of a melancholic humour,

cook it with the root of common bugloss and borage leaves, or with each

of these things.  If one fears a stomach affliction, with cinnamon or

cloves.  If one fears paralysis, with sage and honey.  If one has great

heat, with barley.  In an affliction of the liver, with chicory and common

ceterach.  In obstructions, with tamarisk.  If one fears conjunctive

arthritic gout,  and golden.*  If one has wind, with anise or cinnamon.  If

urine is lacking, with licorice.  If vision is failing, with fennel and anise.  

And thus, in the other illnesses they can cook it with some of these

things, appropriate to the same illness.  And Galen says, in _De regimine

acutarum_, since it is as though the fever was a burning from an exterior

heat, its medication should be its contrary, because the fire in its nature

is hot and dry, and the fever is likewise.  Cold water should be well

opposed or contrary to the febrile nature, as it not only humidifies but

even cools the body against the qualities of the fever...

 

*Possibly this refers to boiling pieces of gold in the water.  

 

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

 

 

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:44:21 -0500 (EST)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Question on tea

 

> Infusion is a perfectly good word for what it is; you might also

> investigate use of the word "tansy", which, while it has been used to

> refer to an herb by that name, and an egg dish containing it, and I'm

> not aware of the source of that name, has also been used as a corruption

> for the word "athanasia", which means, roughly, "banishing death".

> Whether that usage has any link to the herb tansy I don't know, but I

> have heard "tansy" used to describe infusions of herbs other than tansy itself.

 

Um, I suspect that you may be confusing 'Tansy' and 'Tisane' or at least

your informant is. Tisane is another word for infusion.

- --

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:41:44 -0500 (EST)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Question on tea

 

> >   I am curious if anyone knows where I can find

> >information on herbs that may have been used for tea

> >(medicinal or otherwise)in the northern part of

> >England or Scotland during the 16th century.

>

> I don't think "tea" is the term you want. As I understand it, the

> word originally means the stuff made from tea leaves, and the more

> general sense is a later development. Tea in the strict sense doesn't

> come into England until the 17th century, so any earlier references

> to what we would call "herbal teas" aren't likely to be called "teas."

 

_The English Physician_ online gives Culpeper's information on how to make

infusions. Culpeper is 17th century but he was claiming to reproduce the

handbook of the English College of Physicians, so he may or may not be a

good source.

http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical/culpeper/direct.htm

 

I have a section on period reference works in my herb book list:

http://www.Lehigh.EDU/~jahb/herbs/herbbooks.html

 

Nobody that I know of has complied a list of medical teas listed in the

medeival literature, though. Might be a good project.

- --

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:51:32 -0500 (EST)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Question on tea

 

Oops. I forgot to mention a book that might come in handy and isn't on my

list:

_A Country Cup: old and new recipes for drinks of all kinds made from wild

plants and herbs_ by Wilma Paterson. It was published in London by Pelham

books, and the ISBN is:  0720712343

Only some of the content is period, but it is a place to start looking.

--

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:23:59 -0500 (EST)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Question on tea

 

Bear said:

> Also try the words tisane and ptisan, which cover all kinds of infusions

> including sweetened barley water.

 

OED says ptisan specifically refers to barley water and tisane is a

postperiod usage[... however tisane is a term used by people trying to

sound old-tymey, so it's another way to search.] It's also a french usage,

says the OED.

 

Bit embarrassing for us, as we named our herb guild newsletter _Tisane_.

- --

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:10:46 -0600

From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>

Subject: non-member submission - Re: SC - OED?

 

> OED says ptisan specifically refers to barley water and tisane is a

> postperiod usage[... however tisane is a term used by people trying to

 

> sound old-tymey, so it's another way to search.] It's also a french usage,

> says the OED.

 

How did you come by the idea that "tisane" is a post period usage?  In

fact, it appears to be a variant of the early form of the word. The OED

cites:

 

1398 "...{TH}at phisicians clepen Thisan

c1400 "the {TH}e v. day he took {TH}ikke tizanne

c1440 "Tysane, drynke, ptizana"

c1567 "They will refuse the Tysants taste"

c1596 "A little of the tysan the Earle had drunke of"

 

The first citation with a form of "ptisan" starting with a P is in 1533.

 

Under "Tisane" the OED says only that it's a variant form of "ptisan"

and gives a definition for a tea that it's been applied to since around

1930.

 

Finally, what the OED says is that it probably is derived from a French

word not that the usage is French instead of English. Ultimately, it

derives from a Greek word meaning peeled or pearl barley, also a drink

made from this.

 

toodles, margaret

 

 

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:51:50 -0500 (EST)

From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>

Subject: Re: non-member submission - Re: SC - OED?

 

> How did you come by the idea that "tisane" is a post period usage?  In

> fact, it appears to be a variant of the early form of the word. The OED

> cites:

 

Um, I came by that idea because:

 

>  Under "Tisane" the OED says only that it's a variant form of "ptisan"

> and gives a definition for a tea that it's been applied to since around

> 1930.

- --

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise       jenne at tulgey.browser.net

 

 

Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 19:15:34 -0800

From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>

Subject: SC - Ordiate

 

a few weeks back Brighid posted the following info re the Sent Sovi Oridate

recipes.

 

> I don't know how much you were able to figure, and as I said

> before, I don't actually *read* Catalan, and therefore can't

> *translate* it, but here are paraphrases...

>

> Recipe #97 is made of barley flour.  Strain it through a thin napkin

> with thin almond milk, then set it to cook.  When it is cooked and

> thickened, taste it for salt.  If the person for whom it is being

> cooked does not have a fever, you can add white sugar (ordiat is

> generally an invalid dish).  If it's being served to someone who is

> not sick, and you don't want to add sugar, you can add honey if

> you wish.

>

> Recipe #98 is made of pearled barley cooked in a thin almond milk.

>  When the grains have cooked enough that they have burst, press

> them between two chopping boards, and then put them back in the

> almond milk to cook as in the other recipe.  And add sugar as

> previously said.

>

> Recipe 30 from fragment V: the pearled barley is boiled

> (presumably in water), then chopped in a morter. Then it's thinned

> with with almond milk, strained through a thick napkin, and set to

> cook as said above.  All ordiat should have white sugar put in it.

 

I went ahead & played with the third recipe(#30 from Fragment V) based on

Brighid's paraphrasing which matched my own gleanings.

Here's what I came up with:

 

Eden's Ordiate:

1/4 c. barley

3. c. boiling water

1 pinch salt

1 c. ground almonds

4 c. boiling water

1/8 c. sugar

 

Cook barley in 3. c. boiling water w/pinch of salt for 1 hour (till soft)

drain off water mash barley in food processor.

Make almond milk: combine almonds with 4 c. boiling water stir & let sit for

5 mins or so.

Add to pureed barley.  Shmoosh around a bit, then strain in fine wire

strainer.

Add 1/8 c. sugar

Heat to a boil, let boil about 5 mins till it thickens slightly.

Restrained through wire strainer plus cheesecloth to remove slight

grainyness

Serve

 

Very tasty warm milky beverage.  Good for breakfast, right before bedtime,

or indeed if you were feeling ooky as it was originally intended ;->  but

not something to serve at a feast.  even better when sprinkled with a pinch

of cinnamon, which is a standard instruction with medieval spanish dishes.

 

The glop that I strained out (mooshed barley with the ground almonds from

the almond milk) is probably closer to recipe #98 and tasted exactly like

oatmeal :->

 

so either way - as a drink or a glop it's quite yummy

Eden

 

Eden Rain

raghead at liripipe.com

 

 

Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:12:32 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

        <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Need some fast help

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Also sprach RV Carper:

>  I have an herbal tea I am giving for my Barony on Wednesday. I know

> nothing about tea and how to make it. I was going to make a sage tea

> and a mint tea. Do I just steep the fresh leaves in hot water? Do I

> have to add anything besides the sage? Does anybody know if it was

> actually called tea in period?

 

I think an herbal infusion in most of period is known by some

variation on athanasia: in English, often the word "tansy" is used

(this also can refer to an herb by that name, but usage should make

that fairly clear usually). "Tea" is derived from the Chinese "cha"

or 'chai", and doesn't show up in England (and probably elsewhere in

Europe) until the 17th century or so, and referred to the actual tea

plant and infusions or decoctions thereof.

 

I'm not sure what I can add to your technique, except to recommend

you try different ways.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:01:58 -0400

From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] How old is barley water?

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

   Volker Bach asked the question.

 

        Barley water is called tisane (L. tisana or tisanam) in Apicius. His  

recipe sounds like a soup as he adds onion, herbs and probably parts  

of trotters. We know through Hartley that Scottish reapers drank  

barley water to prevent dehydration but this was replaced by salted  

oatmeal.

 

        The Spaniards call it tisana or ordinate. Although the dictionary of  

the Spanish Royal Academy defines ordinate as a drink the recipes in  

Sent Sovi and Nola are thicker. In one of Sent Sovi's barley flour is  

boiled in chicken broth until it becomes a heavy cream and then mixed  

it with almond milk and sugar. The other calls for whole grain.  

Nola's recipes are similar. He uses ground barley and adds cinnamon  

as well as almond milk and sugar.

 

        In Spain barley water as a beverage or cream was very popular from  

the 14th to the 18th centuries not only for the sick but especially  

among peasants in rural areas where it was served very cold. Its  

popularity declined in the middle of  the 18th century but it did not  

disappear entirely as it still can be found today.

 

        Certainly the Scots plain barley water sounds awful. Doctoring it up  

like the English, French or Spanish versions make it sound like a  

really novel non-alcoholic drink prefect for camp demos.

 

Suey

 

 

Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 22:41:17 -0400

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How old is barley water?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

From the Nimatama, India around 1500.  Not just barley, but in the

same category.

Ranvaig

 

f 13a

Another method for a drink: mix millet, wheat, barley, lentils, and

toasted chickpeas in rice water and cook them.  Add salt and two

direms of ghee and drain off the liquid.  Flavour the liquid with

ghee or with sesame and then make it either sweet or sweet-smelling

or sharp or put in lime juice and garlic.  These are all varieties.

 

Put sesame seeds in sweetened and sweet smelling water and this is

also a variety.

 

Another method for a dry bread drink: soak the dry bread in water,

knead it by hand, drain off the water and add flavours and sweeteners.

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:50:53 -0700

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] groundnuts, continued - horchata

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Devra wrote:

> Cyperus esculentus, also called nutsedge, earth almond, tiger nut,

> chufa (Portuguese and Spanish)

>

> Nutsedge has a long history of cultivation beginning 4,000 years ago

> in ancient Egypt. From there?it made its way throughout the Middle

> East. In the Middle Ages, the Moors introduced nutsedge into Spain,

> and from there it was introduced to West Africa, India, and Brazil.

> The Constanoan, Paiute, Pomo, and Kashaya peoples of coastal areas

> of California and Oregon ate the almond-flavored tubers both raw and

> cooked. Though considered a native plant in North America, it has

> spread to regions outside its original range, and in many areas it

> has become an agricultural weed.? This grasslike?plant bears

> slender, tapering foliage and yellow to brown, spikelike flower

> parts.... The most famous preparation ...is the Spanish beverage?

> horchata de chufa. It is made by soaking the crushed tubers in

> water, straining out the solids, and adding cinnamon,

> sugar,?vanilla, and crushed ice. In some areas people roast the

> tubers, then grind them and use them as a caffeine-free coffee

> substitute.?

 

I'm going to be no help to Devra, but...

 

I was re-reading the Anonymous Andalusian cookbook and cataloging and

comparing all its meat ball recipes, and i noticed a beverage recipe

that calls for "silk almonds" and i've been wondering since before i

read Devra's post if the plant mentioned above might be what the

recipe is asking for.

 

Here's the Recipe, including Charles Perry's footnote:

 

11. Syrup of Harir: Way of Making It

 

Take the almonds of silk [214] and extract from them the small seeds,

after removing their hearts, four ratls. Then divide almonds and

clean the dirt from them, wash them very well in cold water until

softened, and drain the water. Then take water out of a river

oriented Eastward; heat polished steel and cool it in this water

until the water is reduced by half and changes color. Cook the harir

in this water until its substance comes out; press it, and add to the

water three ratls of honey, cleaned of its foam. The bag: half an

uqiya each of cinnamon and cloves, an uqiya of ginger, an uqiya each

of cubebs, long pepper and galingale. Then pound roots and put them

in a bag, which is then tied with a strong thread and added to the

honey and the clean part. Put it on the fire and cook it until a

syrup is made. Drink two uqiyas of this with three of hot water. It

profits in the lack of urine, and increases desire well; it dissolves

the fat from all parts of the body and heats it well, God willing, by

its generosity and virtue.

 

[214] "harir" means silk; is this a recipe for seeds of the mulberry,

on whose leaves silkworms feed?(CP)

-------

 

I'm inclined to think of chufa, but i don't know if the plant has any

silk-like qualities. Any opinions?

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:18:24 -0400

From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] groundnuts (N o - pls),    continued - horchata

        (Lilinah)

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Urtatim wrote

> I was re-reading the Anonymous Andalusian . . . and i noticed a  

> beverage recipe

> that calls for "silk almonds" and i've been wondering since before i

> read Devra's post if the plant mentioned above might be what the

> recipe is asking for.

 

I going to put into [] to show what Huici says in his translation of the

same:

> Here's the Recipe, including Charles Perry's footnote:

>

> 11. Syrup of Harir [ftn 1: a warm drink imbibed at sunset to break  

> Ramadam in Fez]: Way of Making It

>

> Take the almonds of silk [214] and extract from them the small  

> seeds after removing their hearts, four ratls [Take the milk  

> extracted from almond grains after removing the heart, 4 lbs]. Then  

> divide almonds [almond] and clean the dirt from them [it], wash  

> them [it] very well in cold water until softened, and drain the  

> water. Then take water out of a river

> oriented Eastward; heat polished steel and cool it in this water  

> until the water is reduced by half and changes color. Cook the  

> harir in this water until its substance comes out; press it, and  

> add to the water three ratls [lbs] of honey, cleaned of its [skim  

> off] foam. The bag: half an uqiya [1/2 oz] each of cinnamon and  

> cloves, an uqiya [1 oz] of ginger, an uqiya [1 oz]each of cubebs  

> [kababa, ftn 2 pepper from China. In Fez a dish of kabab is made],  

> long pepper and galingale [heath]. Then pound roots and put them in  

> a bag, which is then tied with a strong thread and added to the  

> honey and the clean part. Put it on the fire and cook it until a  

> syrup is made. Drink two uqiyas [ozs] of this with three of hot  

> water. It profits in the lack of urine, and increases desire well;  

> it dissolves

> the fat from all parts of the body and heats it well, God willing,  

> by its generosity and virtue.

>

> [214] "harir" means silk; is this a recipe for seeds of the mulberry,

> on whose leaves silkworms feed?(CP)

 

     In the first sentence I think Huici is saying after shelling and

skinning almond to make almond milk with the fruit/nut. Where is the

'heart' in nuts? - that sounds like nuts to me. Now taking into account

that Huici died at the age of 93 in 1973 and was Chair of the Ancient

and Medieval History Department at the Insitituto Luis Vives in

Valencia, I doubt that he ever knew where the kitchen was in his house

so he must be excused about not knowing the difference between the meat

and the "heart" of a nut.

 

     The "harir" sounds like a very distant cousin of harira which we

traditionally drink at sunset in Morocco from the day we first went

there to today during Ramadan at sunset to break the fast which is very

rich with noodles, chicken or lamb and heaven knows what else but all we

have tasted is delicious even at truck stops on the roads of the Atlas

Mountains without even mentioning that served in friends' homes.

Lilanah, were you reading my mind or I yours last night when I made big

batch of harira before reading your message? I thought it was wonderful

when I tasted it hot in the pot but doggone today I don't like it. I

forgot the peppercorns, dang it! - the only ingredient harira might have

in common with "harir".

 

     -Could 'harir' be an horchata?- you ask. Horchata was made with

almond milk in Castile in the 15th century but not in Al Andalus between

the 12th - 15th. Hispano-Muslims always used the chufa nut or whatever

you call it (please, please chufas are not groundnuts, neither is [it] a nut.

Both are tubers - that's all they have in common.) Traditionally

horchata is always served cold and is a summer time refreshing,

refreshing, refreshment while harira is warm, warm even when Ramadan

hits during summer months which is perhaps the only thing that connects

this recipe with it, plus that dagon pepper. Finally, I have never seen

an horchata recipe with honey or a harira one calling for that either.

 

     Taking into account that eating was medicine, eating was done to

promote good digestion and all that as seen in these medieval

manuscripts we study, harir or harira could mean 'silken' the way for

good digestion and therefore good health. I certainly feel that when I

drink harira which is so wholesome.

 

     This brings us back to the cycle of historical alimentation.

Medieval menus are based on organic food contrasted with gluttony. I

pass from the 'fast food' seen in our Spanish literature from the

Archiprest of Hita to Don Quijote to fast food sold on medieval streets

like your pies in England to fish and chips today, contrasted with

skinny 'bitches' like myself and my daughter who have to buy childrens'

clothing cause we only want organic stuff as we don't like junk food by

my favorite king is Henry IV of Castile, older brother of Isabel of

Castile, who lived in a saddle for 20 years as king, so when he could,

he devoured sausages without peeling the skins so he died of ulcers .  .

. and an American cousin who weighs ??? - no thanks to Mac D.  Food for

hought.

 

Suey

 

 

Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 18:04:42 -0700

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] groundnuts (N o - pls), continued - horchata

        (Lilinah)

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

Suey wrote:

 

Lilinah wrote

>> I was re-reading the Anonymous Andalusian... and i noticed a

>> beverage recipe that calls for "silk almonds" and i've been

>> wondering since before i read Devra's post if the plant mentioned

>> above might be what the recipe is asking for.

 

> I going to put into [] to show what Huici says in his translation of

> the  same:

>

>>  Here's the Recipe, including Charles Perry's footnote:

>>

>> 11. Syrup of Harir [ftn 1: a warm drink imbibed at sunset to

> break Ramadam in Fez]: Way of Making It

 

Just as Perry is not certain what Harir are and muses about mulberry,

perhaps Huici is mistaken in conflating Harira and Syrup of Harir.

 

>>  Take the almonds of silk [214] and extract from them the small

>> seeds after removing their hearts, four ratls [Take the milk

>> extracted from almond grains after removing the heart, 4 lbs]. Then

>> divide almonds [almond] and clean the dirt from them [it], wash

>> them [it] very well in cold water until softened, and drain the

>> water. Then take water out of a river oriented Eastward; heat

>> polished steel and cool it in this water until the water is reduced

>> by half and changes color. Cook the harir in this water until its

>> substance comes out; press it,  and add to the water three ratls

>> [lbs]of honey, cleaned of its [skim off] foam. The bag: half an

>> uqiya [1/2 oz] each of cinnamon and cloves, an uqiya [1 oz] of

>> ginger, an uqiya [1 oz]each of cubebs [kababa, ftn 2 pepper from

>> China. In Fez a dish of kabab is made],

 

Here Huici is WAY off base. Kabob, however one may transliterate the

word, refers basically in the Andalusian cookbook to meatballs,

although today it may be meat chunks on a skewer. Cubeb is a relative

of pepper, mostly from Indonesia, particularly the island of Java.

There's no relationship between the two. It seems to me another way

for Huici to justify conflating Syrup of Harir and the meaty soup

Harira.

 

>> long pepper and galingale [heath]. Then pound roots and put them in

>> a bag, which is then tied with a strong thread and added to the

>> honey and the clean part. Put it on the fire and cook it until a

>> syrup is made. Drink two uqiyas [ozs ]of this with three of hot

>> water. It profits in the lack of urine, and increases desire well;

>> it dissolves the fat from all parts of the body and heats it well,

>> God willing, by its generosity and virtue.

>>

>>  [214] "harir" means silk; is this a recipe for seeds of the

>> mulberry, on whose leaves silkworms feed?(CP)

>

>     The "harir" sounds like a very distant cousin of harira which we

> traditionally drink at sunset in Morocco from the day we first went

> there to today during Ramadan at sunset to break the fast which is very

> rich with noodles, chicken or lamb and heaven knows what else but all we

> have tasted is delicious even at truck stops on the roads of the Atlas

> Mountains without even mentioning that served in friends' homes.

 

I seriously doubt the words are cognate. "Harir" means "silk" in

Arabic. I'm not sure of the derivation of "harira", but i'm highly

skeptical that the roots are the same. Harira is indeed tasty, but

it's a meaty soup. Whereas Syrup of Harir is a very sweet and spicy

beverage syrup.

 

>     -Could 'harir' be an horchata?- you ask. Horchata was made with

> almond milk in Castile in the 15th century but not in Al Andalus between

> the 12th - 15th. Hispano-Muslims always used the chufa nut or whatever

> you call it (please, please chufas are not groundnuts, neither is a  

> nut. Both are tubers - that's all they have in common.)

 

Well, then it sounds as if "silk almonds" could be chufa.

 

> Traditionally

> horchata is always served cold and is a summer time refreshing,

> refreshing (SNIP)

> Finally, I have never seen an horchata recipe with honey

 

But no reason why 800 years ago a beverage similar to horchata could

not be made with honey... Things change over that many centuries. The

recipes for many of the beverage syrups in the Andalusian cookbook

say they are meant to be drunk hot, yet we modern folks would prefer

to drink them cold.

 

> P.S. My dear Lilinah, don't prance around the mulberry tree any more.

> Your silk is not there.

 

I wasn't. As i noted in my first message, that was from Charles Perry

(CP), who was not making a statement. He was not sure what "Silk

Almonds" are, he was just pondering.

 

Here's the recipe "broken out".

Words in [square brackets] are my own comments and musings.

 

Syrup of Almonds of Silk

 

INGREDIENTS

 

4 ratl Almonds of Silk

Water

3 ratl Honey

The bag:

1/2 uqiya Cinnamon

1/2 uqiya Cloves

1 uqiya Cubebs

1 uqiya Long Pepper

1 uqiya Galangal

 

DIRECTIONS [somewhat simplified]

 

1. Take silk almonds and extract the small seeds from them after

removing their hearts and clean well in water.

[since chufa are little tubers, then i guess they doesn't have seeds

in them, so my initial musing is wrong]

2. Then take water out of a river oriented Eastward; heat polished

steel and cool it in this water until the water is reduced by half

and changes color.

[i wonder about this - does this add some medicinal property? Or is

this just a way of purifying the water?]

3. Cook the silk almonds in this water until its substance comes out;  

press it.

4. Add honey to the silk almond water

5. In a bag of fine cloth put the cinnamon, cloves, ginger, cubebs,

long pepper and galangal. Then pound roots and put them in a bag,

which is then tied with a strong thread.

[many recipes in this book call for putting spices into a bag rather

than directly into the syrup to keep it clearer]

[galangal is a rhizome, as is ginger - are these the roots to be  

pounded?]

6. Put the bag in the honey-silk almond water

7. Put it on the fire and cook it until a syrup is made.

8. Drink two uqiyas of this with three of hot water.

 

Clearly the recipe depends on the unknown primary ingredient, silk  

almonds...

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:24:56 -0700

From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] groundnuts (N o - pls),    continued - horchata

        (Lilinah)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> Clearly the recipe depends on the unknown primary ingredient, silk  

> almonds...

 

I have a few thoughts on this recipe as well.

 

Identifying the "silk almond" seems to be an issue.  Could this be the

almond while still young green, which are available for a very few weeks

in springtime?  The seed in the middle is soft and gel-like, could that

be called soft as silk?

 

An examination of the area map might be in order.  Perhaps there are

mountains to the east and the water from the rivers in that direction

are pure cool snow-melt;  or the wellspring to the east which feeds the

rivers is particularly pure or otherwise healthful.

 

I'm not buying the "mulberry" theory.  The seeds of the mulberry are

many and small and not flavorful, like other similar berries of multiple

drupes.  But I have had my differences of opinion with Charles Perry

before.

 

Selene

 

 

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 22:46:15 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] tisane

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Searching in OED under ptisan* Forms:

       thisan(e, tizanne, tysane, 5-6 tysan, 6

       -ant(e, 6-8 tisan, 6-9 tisane, 8 tissane.

 

   1398  Trevisa /Barth. De P.R./ xvii. cxv. (Bodl. MS.), Of barlich

       ischeled and isode in water is a medicinable drinke ymade ?at

       phisicians clepen Thisan;

   C. 1400/Lanfranc's Cirurg./ 139 In ?e v; day he took ?ikke

       tizanne [/v.r/. tysan].

   C. 1440 /Promp. Parv./ 494/2 Tysane, drynke, /ptisana/

 

Johnnae

 

emilio szabo wrote:

> Saint Phlip wrote:

>> while we moderns call a tea any dried herb steeped in water, in  

>> the MA such a beasty was often called a tissane.

>

> I am still looking for examples in medieval English, could you  

> please share a few quotations?

>

> Emilio

 

 

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 04:41:06 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] tisane

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

Johnnae,

 

thank you! I am familiar with the OED quotations.

 

As far as I can see, all of the earlier quotations in the

OED mention varieties of the classical barley preparations

called "ptisana" by the ancients (Hippocrates, Galen, Celsus,

Alexander Trallianus, ...). This was not a herb infusion,

but something ranging from a thick barley broth to a thin

barley drink strained through a sieve, sometimes mixed

with honey and other ingredients.

 

>  1398  Trevisa /Barth. De P.R./ xvii. cxv. (Bodl. MS.), Of barlich

>      ischeled and isode in water is a medicinable drinke ymade ?at

>      phisicians clepen Thisan;

 

Barley "isode in water". Not an herb infusion but the

traditional barley ptisana.

 

>  C. 1400/Lanfranc's Cirurg./ 139 In ?e v; day he took ?ikke

>      tizanne [/v.r/. tysan].

 

(th)ikke indicates, that this quotation refers to a traditional

barley ptisana variety as well.

 

>  C. 1440 /Promp. Parv./ 494/2 Tysane, drynke, /ptisana/

 

This one is hard to decide; the traditional barley water

is certainly a kind of drink.

 

There are late medieval and even early modern

quotations from the OED still refering

to a kind of barley water: "Ptisane is watir

at barliche is soden yn."a1475 tr. Gilbertus Anglicus Pharmaceutical  

Writings (Wellcome) 108 Let him ete diapenidion with ptisane.  

(Ptisane is watir at barliche is soden yn.)

 

?1537 T. ELYOT Castell of Helthe II. xxi. 36 Ptysane..is none other  

than pure barley, brayed in a morter, and sodden in water.

 

1562 W. BULLEIN Bk. Simples f. 8v, in Bulwarke of Defence, And of  

cleane Barly and puer water, is made that excellente water called  

Ptisant.

 

 

What I would like to see is a clear quotation for "tisane" or one of  

its spelling

 

varieties used for a herb infusion, we would be prepared to call tea  

today.

 

If "such a beasty was often called a tissane" in the Middle Ages, it  

should be easy to quote one of the instances.

 

Emilio

 

 

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 04:07:15 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] tisane

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Here are some others. This search is complicated by the variety of

spellings. I didn't search under each variant.

If each of these quotations and or recipes were searched in the original

texts, I suspect that at least some are for something other than barley

water or are barley waters mixed with other herbs.

 

The MED (Middle English Dictionary)

*c1440 /Thrn.Med.Bk./(Thrn)*

 

51/33:  ?e best drynke ware calde water mengede with vynagre or tysayn,

for tysayn profettes mekill to men ?at are colorik.

 

*?a1450 /Macer/ (Stockh Med.10.91)*

84:  Medle ?e iuus of leek [with] ptisane [vr. petisane].

 

*?a1450 /Macer/ (Stockh Med.10.91)*

167:  Take ?is herbe in ?e iuus of tysane [vrr. ptisan, tipsan].

 

*c1475 */Mondeville/ (Wel 564)*

153a/a:  Al maner potage as pesen, almaunde mylk, gruel ptisanne..&

o?ere siche.

 

from EEBO-TCP where one can turn up dozens and dozens of matches:

 

John Partridge's The Widowes Treasure. 1588 has this recipe:

 

A woorthy purgation to auoide Choller.

 

TAKE halfe an vnce of Cassia newly drawne, a dragme of good Rubarbe,

infused a night with water of Endife, with a little Spicknarde, and an

vnce of Sirrop of Violets: mixe all the sayde thinges with thr?e ounces

of Ptisan or Whay, and drinke it warme.

 

Poking about in EEBO-TCP

 

Maison rustique, or The countrey farme translated and enlarged by

Gervase Markham. 1616 pages 209-210

 

Maries Thistle (otherwise called Spina alba, or white and siluer

Thistle, or ?  Artichoke, or Asse-Thistle, because that Asses delight

much to eat it) doth ? fat and well tilled ground, and other ordering,

like to that of Beets: and it ? that it letteth not to grow in vntilled

and vnhusbanded grounds. The seed and  haue (as it were) the like power

to take away obstructions, to prouoke vrine, and it breake the stone,

that Star-thistle hath. The Italians vse the roots thereof in Salads,

after the manner of Artichokes; and good wines, to gather the milke of

it, for to eat. Some make a Ptisane with the root of this Thistle made

in powder, the seed of Fennell, and a little long Pepper, to giue to

Nurses to vse which haue small store of milke. The distilled water of

the leaues is good against paine in the sides, being drunke with halfe a

dramme of the seed of the same hearbe.

 

 

John Gerald mentions of fennel "The greene leaues of Fenneil eaten, or

the seed drunken made into a Ptisan, do fill womens brests with milke."

This is from the 1633 edition which is online in the EEBO-TCP.

 

Searching under Tisan and not Ptisan--- one can find remedies like  

this one:

An excellent Laxative Tisanne to take, when one hath a need.

 

TAke a good handful of Pimpernel; of Sena, of green Annise, of Licorice,

of Salt Prunelle, of each half an ounce, of Rhubarb one ounce, two

penniworth of stick Cinnamon, the juyce of two Limons. Take of this

Tisanne a good Glass full in the morning, another a little before

dinner; and (if it needed) a third in the afternoon.

 

This is in the 1675 text of Choice and experimented receipts in physick

and chirurgery as also cordial and distilled waters and spirits,

perfumes, and other curiosities. Digby, Kenelm, Sir, 1603-1665

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:14:57 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] tisane

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

> Here are some others.

 

Thank you very much! Let us look at the quotations before 1500 only, that

17th century texts may refer to a tea-oid preparation comes as no surprise,

but these are not mediaeval.

 

*?a1450 /Macer/ (Stockh Med.10.91)*

84:  Medle ?e iuus of leek [with] ptisane [vr. petisane].

 

*?a1450 /Macer/ (Stockh Med.10.91)*

167:  Take ?is herbe in ?e iuus of tysane [vrr. ptisan, tipsan].

 

The two quotations from the English Macer refer to

the traditional ptisana. The first one is from the chapter on porrum

and renders 11th century Latin:

 

  "... Cum ptisana succum Porri sorbere iuvabit".

 

The second quotation is from the chapter on elleborus albus:

 

"In succo ptisanae vel mulsa paneve coctum

Sumere praecipiunt alii, sic utile dicunt".

 

By "alii" he refers to ancient authorities other than

Plinius, whom he quoted before.

 

*c1475 */Mondeville/ (Wel 564)*

153a/a:  Al maner potage as pesen, almaunde mylk, gruel ptisanne..&

o?ere siche.

 

"gruel" indicates, that it is not a kind of tea, if I am not mistaken.

I cannot look at the fourth quotation, I do not have the edition of the

Thornton Manuscript around here.

 

> If each of these quotations and or recipes were searched in the

> original texts, I suspect that at least some are for something

> other than barley water or are barley waters mixed with other herbs.

 

Barley water mixed with other herbs is not what I am looking for,

this was already done in ancient medicine, e.g. Galen suggests to

add chives and dill in preparing the ptisana. But this is not

what I would be inclined to call "tea". What I am looking for is

a recipe that states clearly that herbs boiled in water

were called "tisane" prior to, say, 1500. So far, I do not see

any such recipe.

 

Thanks for pointing me to the Middle English Dictionary. What

a great thing that its online. They have two senses, the second

being "headache", the first one is:

 

1. (a) Shelled or cooked barley; (b) a medicinal drink made from  

shelled barley and water; ~ water; gruel ~.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?size=First

+100&type=headword&q1=tisane&rgxp=constrained

 

It makes me wonder that they did not mention the use of "tisane" for

tea. I think they would have noticed if "tisane" was indeed used often

to refer to tea during the Middle Ages. Hence, up to now I see no

evidence supporting the original claim: "While we moderns call a tea

any dried herb steeped in water, in the MA such a beasty was often

called a tissane."

 

Emilio

 

 

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 23:31:36 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] tisane

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

> What about 16th century texts? Perhaps searching EEBO-TCP

> would help you locate more of what you want. It is online also.

> Johnnae

 

I appreciate your help very much! Of course I was excited to hear about EEBO-TCP

and a searchable text of Gerarde 1633 etc. However, so far I only found a somewhat restricted demo version with a few texts that did not include  

quotations for "tisane" and its variants. Of course, I would be  

extremely happy, if you could point me to the

extended search functions of EEBO-TCP.

 

Certainly, there has to be some phase of transition from the pure  

barley preparations to the preparations with herbs. In the meantime,  

I found an article by Ernst Darmstaedter on Ptisana. Among other  

things he quotes a 1625 German herbal by Tabernaemontanus/Bauhinus,  

where herbal additions are mentioned becoming more important in  

respect to barley ("Allerdings werden auch ziemlich viele Pflanzen-

Zus?tze genannt ..., sodass die Gerste selbst zur?cktritt"). This  

might be the path of change from traditional ptisana to tisane as a  

herbal infusion.

As far as I can see, this happened in the 16th and 17th century, so  

you are right that 16th century texts might be important.

 

Again: I would be happy to learn more about the EEBO-TCP facilities.

 

Emilio

 

 

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:17:09 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] EEBO was tisane

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

EEBO_TCP is an academic database available through libraries.

Ask if your university library subscribes to it. It can run as much $30,000

per year to subscribe so not every library subscribes. Once in, search functions

are well described. You'll also want to check out the scanned images available as part of EEBO. Also the 18th century English texts are being put up as

part of ECCO.

 

Johnnae

 

emilio szabo wrote:

> I appreciate your help very much! Of course I was excited to hear  

> about EEBO-TCP and a searchable text of Gerarde 1633 etc. snipped

> Again: I would be happy to learn more about the EEBO-TCP facilities.

>

> Emilio

 

 

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 17:19:49 -0700

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] tisane

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

> It makes me wonder that they did not mention the use of "tisane" for

> tea. I think they would have noticed if "tisane" was indeed used often

> to refer to tea during the Middle Ages. Hence, up to now I see no

> evidence supporting the original claim: "While we moderns call a tea

> any dried herb steeped in water, in the MA such a beasty was often

> called a tissane."

>

> Emilio

 

Yeah, but they didn't call an herbal infusion "tea" either, since

both tea (Camellia sinensis) and the name for it didn't enter into

Europe with any commonness until the mid-17th C. The English word

"tea" developed indirectly from the Chinese word "cha", which means

tea (Camellia sinensis), as did pretty much all the other words for

tea (Camellia sinensis) in European languages.

 

While i was looking for pre-17th C. recipes for herbal infusions -

what the French and some English speakers now call "tisane" - i found

that some of the recipes called the infusions "juice of nnn", where

"nnn" is the main herbal ingredient. They were not called "tea",

since the word and its variants were pretty much unknown in Europe -

yeah, some intrepid travelers ran across actual tea before 1601, but

it was generally unknown until the wealthy got it in the 17th C. and

it became popular in the mid-17th C.

 

If Europeans were drinking hot herb infusions as general beverages

prior to 1601, i can't find many mentions. From what i can tell, the

majority of tisanes/ptisans and herbal beverages prior to 1601 were

medicinal, and i haven't found a single consistent name for these

herbal infusions - except, perhaps, "infusion".

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

 

 

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:02:19 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] barley water

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

It turns in the dietaries for all sorts of reasons, including this:

The Seconde Part of the Secretes of Master Alexis of Piemont [London, 1560]

To make wemens milke encrease.

TAke Fenell seede, and seeth it in barleywater, and giue the woman

drinke of it, and her milke shall encrease abondantly.

 

It's also a fever drink.

 

Johnnae

 

Heleen Greenwald wrote:

> Thanks for the good explanation Master A!  Can you explain to me

> though, why people would want to drink "...basically water boiled

> with barley until it has taken on a  starchy, slightly mucilaginous

> viscosity..."  sounds.... uhm, like something that I have to drink as

> a prep before a certain test that I have to take every year.  <trying

> to be delicate here.>

>

> I've never tasted actual barley water myself, but I have seen/heard

> it referred to in  UPSTAIRS DOWNSTAIRS as a drink for young women in

> lieu of wine/fortified wine.

>

> Phillipa

 

<the end>



Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org