caudls-posets-msg - 9/7/10

Caudles and Possets. Late period drinks alcoholic drinks thickened with eggs or grain.

NOTE: See also the files: caudles-art, beverages-msg, p-toasting-msg, spiced-wine-msg, wassail-msg, eggs-msg, dairy-prod-msg, custards-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
To: sca-cooks at eden.com
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:51:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sca-cooks Re: Hot Drinks

>What is the differance between a caudle and a posset?

pos.set \'pa:s-*t\ n [ME poshet, possot] : a hot drink of sweetened and
   spiced milk curdled with ale or wine

cau.dle \'ko.d-*l\ n [ME caudel, fr. ONF, fr. caut warm, fr. L calidus -
   more at] CALDRON : a drink (as for invalids) usu. of warm ale or wine mixed
   with bread or gruel, eggs, sugar, and spices

	Tibor


Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:51:02 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - white drinks and other foods

Michael Macchione wrote:
> Now this may seem like a strange request, but do you know of any other
> period drinks besides milk, that are white???  I'm planning a feast to be
> served in Mid-winter, that has a White theme (all of the foods served are
> white, called white, or started out as white).  I have this strange
> feeling that serving milk at a feast won't go over well, Any ideas???

Hmm. If the beverages are either white, called white, or started out as
white, this should be fairly easy. Many caudles are off-white, being,
essentially, ale or wine thickened with eggs. Then there is white
hippocras, white wine (Du-uhh, as my son says), white grape juice, etc.
I might be tempted to suggest almond milk, but I'm not sure about
whether this was used as a beverage, per se. 
 
Adamantius


Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:02:50 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Possets

Made of Ale, milk, egg nutmeg sometimes !

A Yorkshire version c1860

1 slice thick white bread, 1tsp nutmeg, 2 tsp sugar, 1 pt white wine. Heat
bread & ale to almost boiling, add nutmeg & sugar, pour into china bowl add
wine, serve.

A Scottish version

1 pt milk, 2tbsp oatmeak, 1/4tsp salt, 2 tsp sugar, 1/4 tsp nutmeg, 1
tablespoon whiskey

put milk in pan, sprinkle oatmeal over also salt, heat quickly , stirring
to boiling, remove from heat stand 10 mins. Press tyhrough sieve, into
another saucepan, add sugar & nutmeg, reheat to nr boiling, stir to prevent
sticking. Remove stir in whiskey serve.

Try honey instead of sugar, brandy or ale instead of whiskey and so on !

A modern one !

grated rind & juice of 2 lemons or limes, 1 pt double cream, 150ml dry
white wine, 2-3 tbsp castoe sugar, 3 egg whites

add citrus bits to cream and whisk till stiff, stir in wine, whisk in
citrus juice little by little, add sugar to taste. Whisk egg whites till
stiff, fold into mixture, chill. Before serving whisk again and spoon into
dishes.

Now more a pudding than a drink !

I chose these to illustrate how difficult it is to pin down exactly what
these dishes are, to each region in each time they vary slightly.

The Scottish Version is my favorite BTW !

Mel


Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:17:49 -0500
From: "Mark.S Harris" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: SC - Some more syllabub info

Someone was looking for information on period syllabubs. Here is some
info that may prove useful. This is on p73 of the _Hypocras, Caudels
and Possets_ chapter, written by Moria Buxton in _Liquid Nourishment_
in the Food and Society series edited by C. Anne Wilson:

Rich Possets were first cousins to the early syllabubs,
though syllabubs were always cold and possets should never
be chilled. In the sixteenth century early syllabubs were
simply made from milk or cream squirted with force into a
bowl of wine; later they developed into whipped syllabubs
where cream and wine and flavoring were beaten together,
and the froth taken off in spoonfuls and left to drain in its
pot (rather like an uncurded posset); and later still developed
into set syllabubs which bore more resemblance to our final
drink, the caudel.

Lord Stefan li Rous
stefan at texas.net


Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 10:57:43 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: Re: SC - OT:  Christmas Dinner... :)

> Oh, I acquired a full half gallon of fresh, heavy cream from a
> local farmer... any suggestions on what I should do with it?
> Besides the syllabub I'm taking to the big family meal tomorrow?

How about a posset, "Martha Washington's Book of Cookery" has a excellent
sack posset.  Essentially it is a cooked eggnog forerunner.  With
ingredients consisting of 14 egg yolks, 7 egg whites,  a pint of heavy
cream, 1/2 pound of sugar, a cup of sherry and a nutmeg it will harden your
arteries just sniffing it.

You dissolve the sugar in the sherry add the cream and heat the mixture to
below a boil.  After thoroughly mixing the eggs you slowly add them to the
pot stirring all the while.  Stir while cooking until the mixture is "pretty
thick", almost as thick as pan cake batter.  Remember to both keep the heat
on low and stir constantly.   Watch out for sticking on the bottom, as it
will scorch and burn if you are not careful.  After it is cooked pour it off
into an serving pitcher, I used a smallish ceramic one.  Be careful of
scraping the bottom of the pan as any burnt portions will be down there and
you will want to leave them  behind.   Serve blood warm with ground nutmeg
sprinkled on the top.

You might want to check the unredacted recipe in MW as I can't seen to find
my copy and have provided the above from memory.   The truth is this dish
should probably be prepared in a double boiler but as I don't have one I
have never done it that way.


Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:04:28 EDT
From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Blamang

cjvt at hotmail.com writes:
<< The recipe is Harl MS 279 no 82, for Blamang, and the last line reads 
 '[th]ou myght depart hem with a cawdelle ferry y-wreten before...'
 What is a cawdelle ferry y-wreten? >>

A caudle is a warm drink, spiced and sugared.  The "Cawdelle Ferry" recipe in 
Vol. 1 of "Take a Thousand Eggs..." is made of wine, egg yolks, sugar, 
saffron, salt, mace, cloves, galingale, and cinnamon, and served with "white 
powder" strewn on top.  Effectively, a thickened spiced wine, I guess, but 
probably more custardy in consistency.
I'm not sure about "y-wreten"...OH.  Is there a recipe for cawdelle ferry 
written in the manuscript before the blamang recipe??  It might mean that 
when your guests are finished with the blamang and it is taken away 
(departed), you might then serve them the cawdelle ferry "written before"!  

The Cawdelle Ferry recipe in "Take a Thousand Eggs" is also from Harl MS 279, 
and is number 47!  So it would be "written before"!  Sort of "serve this with 
the dish from page 32".

Cool!  A serving suggestion from the 15th century!

Brangwayna Morgan


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:38:12 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: Re: SC - My first attempt at a period(ish) recipe. (Very Long!)

>That sounds yummy! I don't think I have seen the recipe yet, so I'll have
>to look for it. Which did you prefer, the sherry or the brandy?

Tis a toss up love.  I have been intending to try it with a dark rum like
Myers as well. The full recipe calls for a cup of sherry thus if you use
brandy the resultant posset though cooked will have more alcohol in it.
Regards the substitution of brandy it was the holiday and I had forgotten to
buy sherry.   When you cook it the actual directions say to cook it "pretty
thick" and serve it "blood warm".  The trick is that you will stir it and
stir it, so that everything on the bottom gets stirred and not left behind.
Then all of a sudden you will notice that it has finally started to thicken,
just like a cooked custard I have been told.   It is very easy to burn it on
the bottom at this stage so you are probably better off using a double
boiler.  If you find that it is starting to scorch on the bottom, do not
scrap the bottom but pour off what you have and it will be salvageable.   If
you really burn it however it is pretty much a total loss.  I have served it
both warm and chilled.  In either case you will want to serve it in very
small cups as it is extremely rich.   Check Ms. Hess's documentation if you
would as it appears there is some debate on posset periodicity.  Be that as
it may it is becoming a Yule tradition around my house.

Daniel Raoul


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:56:48 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - possets

Daniel Phelps wrote:
> For what it is worth of the possets in Martha Washington, of which there are
> at least three recipes, one is made with ale/beer other two are made with
> sack.  I must find my copy and check what Ms. Hess says regards their
> periodicity as you have gotten me curious.

I think the area of distinction, at least at some point when there was a
clear distinction, was that possets were thickened with grain, as a
rule, while caudles are thickened with eggs. I'm sure there are
exceptions, but in general that seems to be the difference.
 
Adamantius


Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:09:27 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: Re: SC - possets

>I think the area of distinction, at least at some point when there was a
>clear distinction, was that possets were thickened with grain, as a
>rule, while caudles are thickened with eggs. I'm sure there are
>exceptions, but in general that seems to be the difference.

The one posset from Martha Washington I did was thickened with egg.  The
ingredient list as I remember it is as follows:

egg yolk 14
egg white 7
heavy cream 1 pint
sugar ? (don't remember the quantity)
sherry 1 cup
nutmeg
ambergis (didn't have it, didn't use it, don't know where to get it, don't
know any sick sperm whales)

No grain.

If anyone has a copy they might check the other recipes and what Ms. Hess
says.

Daniel Raoul


From: "Dan Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Christmas dinner plans
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:57:40 -0800

> Does anybody have a good recipe for eggnog?  I had one, but can't find
> it.  I really don't like eggnog, so this is one of those few things that
> I really can't intuit myself.

There is a really tasty sack posset (eggnog?) recipe in Martha Washington's
Book of Cookery which I have made on several occasions.  It's a cooked
eggnog sort of thing. If I recall correctly 14 egg yolks, seven egg whites,
a cup of sherry, a pint of heavy cream, a half a pound of sugar, half a
nutmeg and some amberguis, the amberguis is optional.  I'll give you more
info if you want ...as soon as I find where I put my copy of Martha.  I've
made it with brandy and it came out tasty.  I've been intending to make it
with Dark Rum but haven't got around to it.

Daniel Raoul


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:37:17 -0700
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A college class... on Coffee
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

There are caudels of various sorts in _Curye 0n Inglysch_, which is more
mid-period than late period.  Some of them are closer to soups than
beverages, and contain things like seafood and leeks
--maire

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> However, I thought caudles and possets were mostly late period and
> post-period with the first documented ones being in the 16th century.
> Anyone know otherwise?


Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:38:54 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Egg nog was New here Hello All!!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Johnna Holloway wrote: Welcome.

> Can you provide the website and source for your egg nog recipe?
> You indicate that it's circa 1579. That's much earlier than normally
> asserted for a named egg nog recipe..
>
> The OED has this to say about egg nogs--
> *egg-nog (nog- strong ale. ] A drink in which the white and yolk of
> eggs are stirred up with hot beer, cider, wine, or spirits.
>
> The first quote they give is:
> *1825* /Bro. Jonathan/ I. 256 The egg-nog..had gone about rather  
> freely.

Nog is late 17th century. John Ayto writes-- *nog*
Nog was originally an East Anglian term (of unknown ancestry) for a sort
of strong beer?in 1693 we find one Humphrey Prideaux writing in a letter
of ?a bottle of old strong beer, which in this country [Norfolk] they
call ?nog??. Not until the early nineteenth century was it applied (in
full as /egg nog/) to a drink made from milk and beaten eggs mixed with
rum, brandy, or wine. An alternative name for it is /egg flip/.

At least in the SCA, alcohol is freely omitted these days. Sites that
forbid alcohol, problems with liability on drinking and driving,
families with children that don't attend if alcohol is served, lots of
adults that don't drink
(numerous people who aren't AA members also have made the decision not
to drink) and the various regulations that deal with
alcohol at official events and who pays for it, etc. I gather that you
aren't with the SCA, so your group's feeling about this
may vary of course.

 Johnnae

>> AllRober3 at aol.com wrote:
>>>   I am so pleased to be a part of a cooking guild here. I just
>>> joined a Renaissance Group, and in the group I joined a Invocation
>>> Guild, which  I chose Cooking and Kitchen Arts. I would like to do a
>>> presentation at each of  our gatherings, which are bi monthly, and
>>> for the December Gathering I had found  a recipe for Eggnog on a
>>> website that called for:   Sugar 4 Egg Yokes Cinnamin Sweetish Wine
>>>
>>> I would like to make this because it is from the time period that
>>> the group  I am in, is at 1579, but I am a recovering alcoholic, and
>>> really don't want to  use alcohol. Is there any other recipes for
>>> eggnog that any of you know of from  that time without alcohol, If
>>> not then I figure I will make it, and just buy  myself the eggnog at
>>> the store.
>>>
>>>                                   Stephen


Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 22:40:09 EST
From: AllRober3 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Egg nog was New here Hello All!!
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Johnna,

I am so sorry about the lengthy reply, but here is the recipe I found
from 1569.. I could not find the same website again, but I have it  
saved on my computer. 

~Stephen


MARTINO ROSSI

How to make good eggnog

Per fare bono zambaglione per farne una taza, piglia quatro ova zo? lo
rossame, e [...] zucharo e canella a sufficienzia et de bono vino amabille, e sel fusse troppo fumoso mettili uno poco d'aqua o de brodo magro poi fale  
cocere am? se coce lo brodeto et sempre menace con lo cugiaro et quando se imbratta [ponilo in taza].    

egg yolks
sugar
cinnamon
sweetish wine

     To make a portion of good eggnog, get four eggs (just the yolks) and
[...] a generous amount of sugar and cinnamon, and add some sweetish wine. If the mixture begins to smell like smoke, add a little water or lean broth.  
Cook in the same way as broth, stirring constantly with a spoon, and when it  
soils [the spoon, serve it in a cup].

HISTORIC NOTES

This very antique recipe, which appears in Martino Rossi's manuscript
preserved at Riva del Garda (but not contained in the Washington  
manuscript ), was
often recommended for people who had to do strenuous work or who were
debilitated. For example, in his book on obstetrics published in  
1569, Girolamo
Mercurio, a Roman physician, recommended eggnog for women in childbirth. Mercurio, who
also included a recipe for eggnog in his book, defines it as a Milanese
speciality and specifies the same ingredients as Martino. It is interesting to note the many attempts that have been made to indicate the precise moment when
this brew is ready to serve: Marino says it is done when it "soils" (that is,
when the mixture is so dense that it adheres to the wooden spoon and "soils" it),
while Mercurio maintains that eggnog is ready when it assumes "the thickness
of the top of milk" (that is, the consistency of cream). In any event, Nico
Marin was the master of modern eggnog. Many restaurant owners, cooks, customers
and friends in Italy and abroad remember him after the evening meal when,
brandishing his inseparable copper sauce pot, he would delve into the art of
creating the extraordinary, soft, smooth and light eggnogs which he  
happily served to anyone who happened to be dining at the time.


Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:46:38 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Egg nog was New here Hello All!!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Thanks so much for posting the recipe and notes as you have them.

I can see where the misconceptions come in.

To start, I managed to locate the source on the web.
The webpage that lists this recipe and the notes can be found at:

http://www.nicomarin.com/ricette/ric390_e.htm

This is a commercial site, not a historical cookery or food site.

The notes say that "This very antique recipe, which appears in Martino
Rossi's manuscript preserved at Riva del Garda (but not contained in the
Washington manuscript ), was often recommended for people who had to do
strenuous work or who were debilitated. For example, in his book on
obstetrics published in 1569, Girolamo Mercurio...."

Martino was not around in 1569. The Mercurio text is another totally
different book.

Martino de Rossi or Martino of Como was active in the 1460's.
Please don't make the mistake of dating eggnog though back to the
1460's, because
this is not an eggnog recipe. This is a recipe for the Italian dish Zabaglione
which Gillian Riley in The Oxford Companion to Italian Food describes as
"a pale delicate froth of egg yolks beaten up with sugar in a bowl over
a pan of hot but not boiling water to thicken it slightly."

When one looks at this recipe and it's modern version in Italian
on the website under  http://www.nicomarin.com/ricette/ric390.htm
  one finds that the version reads: "Per fare una porzione di buon
zabaglione...."
What has happened is that zabaglione has been translated into eggnog and
not left as simply as zabaglione.

The fact that the notes then continue as "In any event, Nico Marin was
the master of modern eggnog" or "Maestro del moderno zabaglione ? stato tuttavia Nico Marin" continues the substitution of zabaglione
for eggnog.

Zabglione is not a drink--- it's a dessert. I think most culinary
historians would agree that sadly it's not a true eggnog.
If you would like to examine the recipe in translation,
the Rive del Garda recipes appear in Jeremy Parzen's edition of Martino
that appeared as The Art of Cooking. The First Modern Cookery Book,
2005. It appears there on page 118 as "How to make a good zabaglione." He doesn't make the mistake of saying it's an eggnog.

Johnnae llyn Lewis


Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:21:39 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Egg nog was New here Hello All!!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Nov 19, 2007, at 7:46 AM, Johnna Holloway wrote:

> Zabglione is not a drink--- it's a dessert. I think most culinary
> historians would agree that sadly it's not a true eggnog.
> If you would like to examine the recipe in translation,
> the Rive del Garda recipes appear in Jeremy Parzen's edition of Martino
> that appeared as The Art of Cooking. The First Modern Cookery Book,
> 2005. It appears there on page 118
> as "How to make a good zabaglione." He doesn't make the mistake of
> saying it's an eggnog.

I'm inclined to agree that this is probably a spoonable product, based
on the number of yolks used for a portion. It's conceivable zabaglione
has changed over the years, and there's a related French custard sauce
known as sabayon which is pourable, but in general zabaglione is a
spoon-food, while egg-nog, by name and definition, it being a noggin
of something and all, is a drink.

If I were looking for period-ish fore-runners of egg-nog I'd look at
17th-century English caudle recipes...

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:28:03 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Warm Beer was Beverage experiments
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The article to see is this one--
Buxton, Moira. ?Hypocras, Caudels, Possets and Other Comforting Drinks. Liquid
Nourishment. Potable Foods and Stimulating Drinks. [Food and Society 5.] Ed. By
C. Anne Wilson. Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1993. pp.70-78.

Johnnae

Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius asked
> OK, what I meant to say was, warm as in heated as for wassail, lamb's
> wool, possets, etc., or simply not chilled? Conversely, does cold
> equal chilled or simply not heated.
> Or are all things assumed equal and warmer is just better than cooler,
> in general?
> I could understand an empirical statement made in those terms...
>
> Adamantius


Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:34:31 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Early Irish food
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jan 10, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps wrote:

<A> Syllabub/Hatted Kit, etc.

< Syllabub I remember seeing recipes for and we've had some   
discussions on, but what is "Hatted Kit"? Is this just another  
name  for syllabub/caudles? >

<A> Closer to syllabub, but made with ale and milk instead of wine and  
milk... Caudles are a completely different animal, AFAIK; they're  
generally thickened with egg yolk.

< Possets made with sherry, cream, eggs (mostly egg yolk) and nutmeg  
same as caudle? >

Could be. Basically, there are various traditions of making a  
restorative snacky beverage of thickened, enriched booze, sometimes  
served as an evening supper replacement (the main meal being eaten  
earlier), to travellers coming into an inn or arriving home late and  
not wanting anything too substantial or heavy, just something warming,  
etc.

Speaking VERY generally, because there are always exceptions, you'll  
find that if you take all the posset recipes you can find, and all the  
caudle recipes you can find, and put them side by side, you'll  
probably find that almost all contain some sort of alcoholic beverage,  
possibly a dairy product like milk, cream or butter, and either a  
starchy thickener of breadcrumbs, flour or grain, or one of eggs. Very  
occasionally, both. These are areas of similarity.

You'll probably find, though, that more possets are thickened with  
something starchy rather than with eggs, and caudles are more often  
thickened with eggs than with starch.

I suspect both are named for the pan they're heated in and/or to the  
simple fact that they are heated. While you may find a posset recipe  
and a caudle recipe that are functionally identical, that does not  
really indicate that possets as a group are the same as caudles as a  
group.

If that helps clarify things... and if not, add some rum, beat in an  
egg yolk, and heat very gently... that'll help.

Adamantius


Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:27:30 -0400
From: "Terri Morgan" <online2much at cox.net>
To: "SCA Cooks List" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,
	<SCA-AuthenticCooks at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] FW: Caudle spices

A friend in our barony is trying to work out a recipe and has hit a snag. I told her I'd forward her plea for help to this list. - Hrothny
 _____  

From: Heidi G. Haywood [mailto:hghaywood at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:36 PM
To: Terri Morgan
Subject: Caudle spices

Hrothny -  

Here is the caudle recipe I'm working from, (out of Two Fifteenth Century Cookery-Books):

.xlvij. Cawdelle Ferry.?Take ?olkys of eyroun Raw, y-tryid fro the whyte; ?an take gode wyne, and warme it on ?e potte on a fayre Fyre, an caste ?er-on ?olkys, and stere it wyl, but let it nowt boyle tylle it be ?ikke; and caste ?er-to Sugre, Safroun, & Salt, Maces, Gelofres, an Galyngale y-grounde smal, & flowre of Canelle; & whan ?ow dressyst yn, caste blanke pouder ?er-on.

I'm having a had time figuring out what Gelofres are and where I can get some.  I think it's gillyflowers, and thus some sort of carnation, at least according to this website - http://www.justgardeners.com/hrsc/articles/art_dianthus.html  If I can't get gillyflowers, any thoughts as to what might be a reasonable substitute?

As far as I can figure out, flower of Canelle is ground cinnamon?  Also, I can't seem t find a definitive definition for blanke pouder, which I'm assuming is white powder.  It seems like this is usually some mixture of ginger and powdered sugar along with some other stuff, but the exact composition seems to vary somewhat.  Is that something one would mix oneself, or purchase already made (like pumpkin pie spice or something)?

Thank you so much for the help!  

-Oda
---
Heidi G. Haywood, Esq.


Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:52:22 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] FW: Caudle spices

Gelofres is Cloves Gilofre. In some usages it may be the flower, a.k.a. the Clove Pink, but in this case it's probably the spice, cloves.

Flowre of Canelle is some form of cinnamon. Some may speculate that it's a reference to the flowers of cinnamon (Taillevent, for example, calls for cassia buds in some of his stuff), but in this case I think it's Ceylon, or "true" cinnamon ground to a fine "flour".

Adamantius


Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:54:59 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] FW: Caudle spices

<<< Gelofres is Cloves Gilofre. In some usages it may be the flower, a.k.a. 
the Clove Pink, but in this case it's probably the spice, cloves.

Flowre of Canelle is some form of cinnamon. Some may speculate that it's a 
reference to the flowers of cinnamon (Taillevent, for example, calls for 
cassia buds in some of his stuff), but in this case I think it's Ceylon, 
or "true" cinnamon ground to a fine "flour".

Adamantius >>>

The OED references this particular line as a usage for cloves.

I would say you are correct in referencing flowre as being cinnamon ground 
fine.  The derivation is from the French "fleur de farine" meaning the 
finest part of the meal.  As a small aside (and recognizing that spelling is 
highly variable and that we are talking about at least two distinct 
manuscripts) the Two fifteenth Century Cookery Books uses the variant 
"flourys of vyolet" to describe actual violets in one recipe.

Bear 


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 07:12:16 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dawson / Caudle

It's included in this survey of the topic
http://jducoeur.org/carolingia/orlando_caudle.htm

Johnnae

On Jul 14, 2010, at 1:48 AM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
<<< Anyone have The good huswifes jewell by Thomas Dawson, pt. 2?

I would like the original language for a caudle recipe that includes  
oats or oatmeal. >>>


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:42:22 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] To make a cawdle of Ote meale.

To make a cawdle of Ote meale.
TAke two handful or more of great ote-
meale, and beat it in a Stone Morter
wel, then put it into a quart of ale, and set
it on the fire, and stirre it, season it with
Cloues, mace, and Suger beaten, and let 
it boile til it be enough, then serue it forth
vpon Soppes.

Dawson, pt. 2, 1597 ed.

Googling the heading, I found the whole text here:
http://home.comcast.net/~morwenna/Cooks/dawson2.html

E.


Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:21:25 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Request For More Caudles

The OP and Beinecke are not on the web.
We indexed almost two full pages of caudle recipes for the Concordance.
There are a number of them available.

Johnnae

On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:32 PM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
<<< I am again looking for caudle recipes, this time three from Yale MS Beinecke 163 (Items 83, 84, 139), reprinted in An Ordinance of  
Pottage, which i do not own. >>>


Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 07:36:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ordinance # 83, Caudell

83. Caudell 

Draw yolkes of eyron thorow a streynour with wyne or with
ale, that hit be ryght rennyng; put therto sigure, safron, & no
salt. Bet well togedyr; set hit on the fyre on clene colys.
Stere welle the bottom & the sydys tyl hit be ynowghe scaldyng 
hote; thu shalle fele be the staffe when hit begynnys to com. 
Then take hit of and styre alwey fast, & yf be nede, aley hit 
up with som of the wyne; or yf hit com to hastyly, put hit in 
cold watyr to myd syd of the pot, & stere hit alwey fast; & serve
hit forth. 


Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 07:45:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ordinance, # 139 Caudell of almondys.

139. Caudell of almondys.

Grynd almondys blanchyd & temper hem up with wyne or with 
ale, and draw hit thorow a streynour. Do hit in a pott & do to 
sigure or hony claryfyd & safron, & set hit on the fyre. Stere 
hit well. As sone as hit begynneth to boyle, take hit of & serve 
hit forth, & yf thu wilt, cast a lytyll poudyr of gynger.

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	caudls-posets-msg	Page 14 of 14