bev-distilled-msg - 1/18/08 Medieval distilled beverages. Distilling. NOTE: See also the files: cordials-msg, beverages-msg, Peach-Brandy-art, Kiwi-cordial-art. Apricot-Crdal-art, brewing-msg, mead-msg, beer-msg, wine-msg, p-bottles-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Liquours Period? Date: 29 Jun 93 03:57:37 GMT Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn, who has spent more time with her Hugh Platt lately in response from questions in this forum than she had in quite a time. We have two questions as to whether liquors are period. The short answer is yes: the second section of Hugh Platt's _Delightes for Ladies_ (London, 1609) is titled "Secrets in Distillation"; it's first recipe is called "How to make true spirit of wine." Most of the rest, though, are how to make things like rosewater, or heavily herbed and spiced things, not what one would think of as either modern liquors or cordials. Kenelm Digbie (1669), the largest single locus I know of for near-period brewing information, contains (so far as I know) no recipes that call for distillation, or for using its product (i.e. you don't add spirit of wine). The technique is known, at least right at the end of period, but does not seem to be much used. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Spices and Distillation (was Re: Surprise! Surprise!) Date: 20 Jul 93 04:51:53 GMT Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. In response to Ranvaig's query, Andy Trembley recently wrote, >Distillation as "distillation of spirits" has been in discussion for the >last few weeks as of yet with no real conclusion as to whether it was period >(tho the 'nays' have more support due to the lack of reliable information to >support the 'yeas'). I may be partly responsible for this impression, so I thought I should clarify what I have found. In the fifth collection in _Curye on Inglysch_, which Hieatt calls "Goud Kokery", there is a 14th C recipe for distilling aqua vite from the lees of strong wine, which seems to produce something that would appear to be a heavily spiced (and probably rather weak, given the methods described) brandy. So some form of such distilling is unmistakably period. What is unclear is whether anyone ever used the result as a beverage, i.e. drank it straight, either to quench thirst, to enjoy the flavor, or to get drunk. The closest I have to an indication of such a use is that it is used sparingly as an ingredient in some recipes for making spiced wines or ales (amazingly enough, these recipes tend to indicate amounts). This seems to be true through the early 17th C, at least according to what I have found. Hugh Platt has a recipe for distilling "true spirits of wine", which again produces a stronger alcohol than brewing provides. But again, there is no indication that it was drunk; and all the other recipes in his section on distilling are for things like rosewater, or for things you apply externally. I have not seen it myself, but understand that there is sound evidence that some distilled beverages of enhanced alcoholic content were used as medicinals (I'd love some non-urban-legend real-life references here, BTW), and it is very likely true. Surely some of the alchemists thought they might be useful that way. But there's a huge gap, even today, between Cognac and Robitussin. The first is a beverage. The second isn't. The question is whether distilled alcohols in Europe in period were only ingredients or medicinals, or whether they were also sometimes beverages. I hope this is a bit clearer. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: boyko at skyfox Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: RE: Spices and Distillation (was Re: Surprise! Surprise!) Date: 21 JUL 93 01:31:35 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan greetings unto the rialto from laghamon vavasour angharad makes reference to searchingfor documentation of distilled spirits as medicinals. when writing an essay on 16th century science a couple years ago, I ran across a citation from M. Boas _The Scientific Renaissance_. On page 161, she makes reference to a certain Michael von Shrick who wrote a book on distilling liquors in 1478 and suggested the use of such liquors as brandy for medicinal purposes. It is a slender leg to stand on, but it might be worth using as leverage From: DDFr at Best.com (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: How to make Rum *VERY INTERESTING* Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 10:09:38 -0800 Organization: School of Law, Santa Clara University Anyone interested in a period answer to the question might want to look at the description of how to make arrack in the (16th century, Moghul) _Ain i Akbari_. Arrack, like rum, is a distilled liquor made from sugar cane. I don't believe they are the same thing, but I expect the process is at least similar. David/(Cariadoc doesn't even approve of undistilled liquors, unless they are made from dates and fermented no more than three days) From: DDFr at Best.com (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Liqueurs in History Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:27:23 -0800 Organization: School of Law, Santa Clara University I believe the following is roughly correct, but I haven't checked any sources. In most of Europe, distilling alcohol for the purpose of drinking is a late period practice, with the main example being brandy (distilled wine), c. 1400-1500. Whiskey was apparently distilled much earlier, but in fringe areas, so to speak (i.e. Ireland and Scotland). So I don't think you get liquers until near the end of our period, and brandy is the most likely liquid for them to be based on. Of course, distillation was known much earlier, but from an (al)chemical, not culinary, standpoint. Perhaps someone with more precise information can add to or correct my memory on this. David/Cariadoc From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Liqueurs in History Date: 22 Feb 1997 21:39:14 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley David Friedman (DDFr at Best.com) wrote: : I believe the following is roughly correct, but I haven't checked any sources. : In most of Europe, distilling alcohol for the purpose of drinking is a : late period practice, with the main example being brandy (distilled wine), : c. 1400-1500. Whiskey was apparently distilled much earlier, but in fringe : areas, so to speak (i.e. Ireland and Scotland). Regarding this last, I have yet to see _any_ solid evidence for the distillation of whiskey (by any spelling) any time prior to the general spread of brandy-type distillation. You get some vague statements in "history of whiskey" books put out by distillaries, but nothing I've ever seen that could be backed up or pinned down. (I think it's not insignificant that the Irish phrase from which the word "whiskey" derives is a direct translation of "aqua vitae".) Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - cognac > Ok, as if Stefan hasn't asked enough questions, What is cognac? This is just a too easy question. co.gnac \'ko-n-.yak, 'ka:n-, 'ko.n-\ n [F, fr. Cognac, France] cap 1: a brandy from the departments of Charente and Charente-maritime distilled from white wine 2: a French brandy I know it is a distilled alcoholic beverage of some type. But what is it made of? Is it period? What makes a good bottle of cognac? Are there period food recipes that use it? A similar distilled beverage is armagnac, also from France. It is period, I do believe. (But have no citations to hand.) What makes it a good bottle? Aging, ingredients.... Hmmm. Like most strong beverages, cognac has a certain bite. It also has a natural smokey kind of complexity, not like the peaty flavor of scotch, but sharper in the nose. It also has a vanilla sort of texture. A light brown color, a very warm and inviting smell. In large gulps, it can be very sharp, and it must be sipped slowly, so that the wonderful fumes can wash into your nose as you savor it. It takes me a good 45 minutes to drink an ounce. Or longer. I know of no recipes that call for it, but I have some empty glasses into which it conforms smartly. (:-) Tibor From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 16:55:10 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - cognac Mark Schuldenfrei wrote: > Hmmm. Like most strong beverages, cognac has a certain bite. It also has a > natural smokey kind of complexity, not like the peaty flavor of scotch, but > sharper in the nose. It also has a vanilla sort of texture. A light brown > color, a very warm and inviting smell. In large gulps, it can be veyr > sharp, and it must be sipped slowly, so that the wonderful fumes can wash > into your nose as you savor it. It takes me a good 45 minutes to drink an > ounce. Or longer. Just a drop to add: some vintages (a year's "crop" of wine from a given vineyard) are better than others. Some make better brandy than others. Part of the way to remove some of the more unpleasant impurities is by aging under fairly stable, controlled conditions. Generally this involves storage for up to several years in a cask (usually oak), under fairly constant temperature and humidity (usually in cellars). I like marc myself, another variety. It's a little more barbaric in nature, rather like the Italian grappa. > I know of no recipes that call for it, but I have some empty glasses > into which it conforms smartly. (:-) Yeah, me too! One of the reasons you're unlikely to find references to such brandy in period recipes is that it would have been regarded as for medicinal use, at least officially. The Irish author Malachy McCormick speaks of his grandmother's justification for the occasional nip of whisky: "Sure, an' I drinks it like a physic!" > Tibor Adamantius' 2 sesterces From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter) Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:08:15 -0500 Subject: Re: SC - cognac Hi, Katerine here. Tibor commented that he didn't know of recipes that call for brandy, and Adamantius added that one reason for that is that it would have been regarded as medicinal. Actually, there are spiced wine recipes that call for aqua vite, and recipes for flaming dishes using eau ardent; both are almost certainly brandies (i.e. spirits of wine made from grape-based wines), and cognac would be a reasonable modern brandy to use. Before anyone asks: no, I don't know what the difference between aqua vite (as specified in English recipes going back to the 14th C, not the modern stuff) and eau ardent was. They may have been the same. A reasonable alternative hypothesis is that aqua vite is any distilled wine, and eau ardent is specifically a distilled wine that has a high enough alcohol content to flame adequately (in modern US terms, about 70 proof). Cheers, - --Katerine/Terry From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter) Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 13:55:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - cognac Hi, Katerine here. Derdriu responds to Tibor responding to me: >> I agree that brandy is an appropriate thing to use for either aqua vite or >> eau ardent (and have a sneaking suspicion that eau is clearer than aqua... >> but I don't know why I think that). But I wouldn't use the (more expensive) >> and regionally specific cognac in a recipe, unless perhaps the source of the >> recipe was in or near Cognac, France. > >Could the difference be language based? I wonder if eau ardent was available >in France more readily than it might have been other places. >> >> Tibor > >Just wondering. Both appear in English sources. Eau ardent probably appears in French ones too, but I can't think of any offhand. People tend to forget that the common language of English cuisine through the 13th century appears to have been pretty firmly established as Anglo-Norman, and that medieval miscellanies (in which a number of culinary recipes appear) were fairly well bilingual between Middle English and Latin, and sometimes in earlier cases trilingual between English, Latin, and Anglo-Norman. The evolution (and accellerated corruption) of Anglo-Norman dish names through the 14th and 15th centuries pretty clearly indicates that the scribes copying them no longer understood Anglo-Norman. The references I can think of offhand to eau ardent are early 15th century (in Arundel 334). I strongly suspect that by then, to those who wrote about it, it was just a name. - -- Katerine/Terry Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 19:37:02 -0400 From: Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe <agincort at imperium.net> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Cordial Research G'day all, I'm trying to research Cordial ingredients; the easy references are few, Digby is out of period, etc, but I'll share what I found. Any more out there? For the whole page of my limited research, check out what I've found so far... http:www.imperium.net/~agincort/Cordial-R.html Ian Gourdon SUGAR: The sugarcane plant, indigenous to southern Asia, was first used for the production of sugar between the 7th and 4th century B.C. in northern India. Cane cultivation eventually spread westward to the Near East and was introduced to the Mediterranean region by the Arabs, giving rise to a cane sugar industry that flourished there until the late 1500's. Columbus introduced sugarcane tothe New World on his second voyage in 1493, when it was first planted on theisland of Hispaniola. During the 16th and 17th centuries, the Spanish, English,and French established sugar production in their Caribbean island colonies. The French colony of St. Domingue (present-day Haiti) was, by the late 18thcentury, one of the most important sugar producers in the Caribbean at a time when world demand for sugar was rising rapidly. Shipments of raw sugar from St.Domingue such as those recorded on the displayed bills of lading were destined for the European market by way of refineries in France. -1996 Louisiana State University Libraries AQUA VITAE: Originally Whisky was very different to the refined spitits we have today. It had almost a soupy consistency with a strong smoky flavour from the peat used in the fires to dry the malt. Early stories go back to the sixth century AD, but the earliest documented record of distilling in Scotland occurs in 1494, when an entry in the Exchequer Rolls listed "Eight bolls of malt to Friar John Cor wherewith to make aqua vitae" (water of life). This was sufficient to produce almost 1500 bottles. Arnold de Vila Nova, a 13th Century alchemist, wrote of aqua vitae and its restorative properties and also of the medicinal properties of various flavored alcohols. Legal documents dating to 1411 mention the distillation of wine into brandy in the Armagnac region of France. Das Buch zu Destilliern by Hieronymus Braunsweig was printed in 1519. This book, as its title explains, is a book on distillation. From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Liqueurs On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Michael F. Gunter wrote: > I know a similar subject was on this list just a couple of weeks ago but I was > wondering about the history of liqueurs. > > I'm thinking of making up some rose and lilac liqueurs for gifts and as an A&S > entry. I don't think they are period but I was wondering if there were similar > things and if anyone knows when liqueurs began. > > Gunthar M'Lord Gunthar, The history of liqueurs goes back to around the 12th C., beginning with the discovery that distillation could separate two liquids. Wine was distilled to produce "aqua vitae", meaning water of life. This in turn began to be used to produce medicinal liqueurs, some of which are mentioned in Sir Hugh Plat's Secrets in Distillation, and others in Sir Kenelme Digbie's book on Chirurgerie. Chartreuse Liqueur is probably the best known of those with their roots in period. As far as the flowers go, I have many instances of distilling "flower waters" for use in flavoring, cosmetics, and for washing hands at table, but so far none for drinkables, although some of the medicinal recipes do *include* various flowers. Ceridwen Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:28:30 +0000 From: "James Pratt" <cathal at mindspring.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: fortified wine? > << Not being much of a drinker I don't know much about the > "periodness" of the whiskeys Scotch or other wise. Could some one help > me? > Lady Katherine Malveren McGuire Popular tradition accords the introduction of distillation into Ireland at the hands of St. Patrick. A common Gaelic usage was "Uisgebeatha" (water of Life) which eventually became our word "whiskey". The earliest surviving legal reference to the matter can be found in the Exchequer Rolls of James IV of Scotland (1473-1513) which note that the King had his aqua vitae distilled from barley by a friar (_The Scots Cellar_ by F. Marian MacNeill, Edinburgh, MacDonald Printers, 1956). Henry VIII was the first monarch to officially require that the product come only from licensed distilleries. However it was not until 1661 that the first direct tax (4d. a gallon) was imposed. (_An Encyclopedia of Drinks & Drinking_, by Frederick Martin, Toronto, Coles Press, 1980) Cathal Mac Edan na faeled, Barony of the South Downs, Meridies Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:06:20 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Brandy >Philippa said: >>Please remember that Brandy, of a sort, and thus >>distilling has been around since Roman times. > >I thought Brandy was not known until the 13th century or >later. What makes you think it was known in Roman times? > >What is Brandy distilled from? Is there a drink distilled >from mead? > >Stefan li Rous Brandy is distilled from wine, any wine. What we normally call brandy is distilled from grape wine. Other fruit brandies are distilled from fruit wine or fermented juices, peach brandy, black berry brandy, kirchwasser, etc. Distillation has long been used to seperate liquids and a simple distillation will produce about a 40 proof alcohol. The distillation process was improved around 800 C.E. by Jabir ibn Hayyan. The first modern brandy was distilled in approximately 1300 C.E. at the Montpellier medical school by Arnaldus de Villa Nova, a French medical professor. Dates are courtesy of The Food Chronology and the MS Encyclopedia, which have exactly the same text. Bear Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:15:06 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Brandy Philippa said: >Please remember that Brandy, of a sort, and thus >distilling has been around since Roman times. I thought Brandy was not known until the 13th century or later. What makes you think it was known in Roman times? What is Brandy distilled from? Is there a drink distilled from mead? Stefan li Rous Hello! There is a lengthy passage in McGee's "On Food and Cooking" about the history of distillation. To summarize: distillation of wine and other liquids was mentioned by Aristotle. Distillation of rice or barley liquor was known in India in 800 B.C. Distillation of wine for medicine discovered in Italy around 1100 A.D. 15th century brandy in germany. 1100 to 1300 whisky in Scotland. This recipe for 'spirit of honey' is for a distilled alcohol made from mead. 13. SPIRIT OF HONEY - 1609 Put one part of Honey to 5 parts of water: when the water boyleth, dissolue your Honey therein, skimme it, and hauing sodden an houre or two, put it into a woodden vessell, and when it is but bloudwarme, set it on worke with yeast after the vsuall manner of Beere and Ale: runne it, and when it hath lyen some time, it wil yeeld his Spirit by distillation, as Wine, Beere and Ale will doe. (From Delightes for Ladies, by Sir Hugh Plat, 1609.) Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing Recipes" http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:06:44 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Brandy Just for grins, I dug out Fernand Braudel's The Structures of Everyday Life, Harper and Row, 1981. It is a lovely volume by a superb French historian heavily illustrated, noted and indexed. Here's a paraphrase of his information on brandy: Stills were known before the 12th Century, therefore alcohol may have been distilled before then. It is possible that alcohol was discovered about 1100 at the Salerno school of medicine. (although not mentioned in Braudel, this school seems to be where external condensation of distillates began.) Distillation of wine was practiced by apothecaries as medicine. Brandy results from the first distillation, and spirit of wine from the second. First distillation of brandy has been attributed to Raymond Lull (d. 1315), probably incorrectly, or to Arnaud de Villeneuve, an itinerant doctor who taught at Montpellier and Paris and died in 1313 on a journey from Sicily to Provence. Charles the Bad was being treated in a brandy soaked sheet in 1387 and became flambed from a zealous servant and a candle. In 1496, Nuremberg forbid the free sale of alcohol on feast days. A quote from a Nuremberg doctor about 1493, "In view of the fact that everyone at present has got into the habit of drinking aqua vitae it is necessary to remember the quantity that one can permit oneself to drink and learn to drink it according to one's capacities, if one wishes to behave like a gentlemen. 1514, Louis XII grants the guild of vinegar-makers the privilege of distilling brandy. 1537, Francis I divides the privilege between the vinegar-makers and the victuallers leading to quarrels (apparently the business was very profitable). In 1506, Colmar (eastern France, free imperial city since 1226) placed the distillers and distributers under the city control and tracked the product in the fiscal and custom records. It appears to have quickly become a major industry. An early distillery may have been operating at Gaillac early in the 16th Century and exported brandy to Antwerp as early as 1512. Acquavite appears in the Venetian customs records in 1596. And in Barcelona in the 17th Century. Brandy appears to been a mainstay in northern Europe, Germany, the Netherlands, and France (north of the Loire) long before reaching the Mediterranean countries. Bear Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 19:20:42 From: kappler To: distilling Subject: [Dstlg] Puck's History of Distilling Posted by "kappler" <kappler at edgenet.net> 900 BC - Chinese credited with discovery of the process of distillation 800 BC - rice and millet fermented into Tehoo, distilled to Sautchoo in China - rice, molasses and palm sap fermented into Toddy, distilled to Arrack in India - mare's milk fermented into Kumiss, distilled to Arika by Tatars - mare's milk fermented into Kefir, distilled to Skhou in Caucasus - rice fermented into Sake, distilled to Sochou in Nippon 100 AD - first Roman writings referencing distilled beverages 500 AD - Honey fermented to Mead, distilled to 'distilled mead' in Britain 700 AD - Islamic universities apply distillation to medicine 900 AD - Abucasis, an Arab surgeon in Spain uses distilled alcohol as a solvent for drugs 1000 AD - grapes fermented to wine, distilled to Brandy in Italy 1100 AD - Oats and Barley fermented to Beer :->, distilled to Usqubaugh in Ireland 1200 AD - Grapes fermented to wine, distilled to Aqua Vini in Spain - Arnold de Vila Nova writes of therapeutic properties of aqua vitae and various flavored alcohols 1300 AD - Grapes fermented to wine, distilled to Cognac in France 1411 AD - Legal papers mention distillation of Brandy in Armagnac region in France 1494 AD - Friar John Cor granted "8 bolls of malt" to make aqua vitae for King James IV 1519 AD - Hieronymus Braunsweig wrote Das Buch zu Destilliern, a book on distillation 1553 AD - 'eau-de-vie', a distillate of 'Syder' mentioned in the journal of a Norman farmer 1644 AD - Scotland's Parliament taxes whiskey 1700 AD - Scot and Irish settlers introduce distilling to North America In service, Puck Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:44:44 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: Re Eau Ardent - Re: SC - Re: Duel - Recipe Three > > IIRC, spirits with enough proof to light begin appearing commonly in the > > mid-15th Century. However, the first European distillation of brandy occurs > > about 1300 in France and the Arabs had capacity to distill alcohol as early > > as 800. I don't believe freezing gets the distillates high enough to burn. > > > > Bear > > Perhaps one's definition of "commonly" is the key here. I've seen a couple of > other references to eau ardent, or aqua ardent, in period sources, and if I > remember correctly, there is a recipe for aqua vitae somewhere in Curye On > Inglysch, essentially a distillate of spiced wine. And I could be wrong, but > the chastelets recipe occurs in the late 14th century, but then again even if > brandy distillation occurs in France at a given date, I understood it to > have > been practiced earlier in places like Ireland. I wonder if I've been > misinformed, or if you are reading from a French (and therefore > Franco-centric, as I've yet to see a French source that wasn't) source? > > Adamantius The 1300 date is certainly Franco-centric, probably apocryphal, and likely close to correct. It represents the experimental distillation of brandy at the Montpellier medical school by Arnaldus de Villa Nova. Also apocryphally, the external condenser still, which can conserve volatile liquids like alcohol is supposed to have been developed by the physician Salernus (d. 1167). So we are talking about 250 years of sketchy records, which means that alcohol volatile enough to burn was probably distilled in the 13th Century. I've been working backward on the rules, regulations and commentary about alcohol from a trade perspective and I haven't been checking the cookbooks, which is why I said "commonly" available. My sources are fairly limited and mostly Central European, and if you can remember where you found the references to Irish distillation, I would appreciate knowing. Bear Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:44:37 -0400 From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net> Subject: Re: Re Eau Ardent - Re: SC - Re: Duel - Recipe Three Adamantius sez: >and if I >remember correctly, there is a recipe for aqua vitae somewhere in Curye On >Inglysch, essentially a distillate of spiced wine. You asked, love, and so it shall be given. I don't have a symbol for thorn on my computer, and if I did, most of you might not be able to pick it up as a thorn, so that's why I'll be putting all those th thingies in parentheses: From Curye on Inglysch, Heatt and Butler, published 1985, the section on Goud Kokery, number 7. 7 Aqua vite: (th)at is to seie, water of liif. Fille (th)i viol ful of lys of strong wiyn, & putte (th)ereto (th)ese poudris: poudir of canil, of clowes, of gyngyuer, of notemugges, of galyngale, of quibibis, of greyn de parys, of longe peper, of blake peper: alle (th)ese in powdir. Careaway, cirmunteyn, comyn, fenel, smallage, persile, sauge, myntis, ruwe, calamynte, origanum: and a half unce or moore or lasse, as (th)ee liki(th). Pownd hym a litil, for it will be (th)e betir, & put hem to (th)ese poudris. (Th)anne sette (th)i glas on (th)e fier, sette on the houel, & kepe it wel (th)at (th) hete come not o it; & sette (th)ervndir a viol, & kepe (th) watir. Phlip Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:57:20 -0500 From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Subject: SC - Re: Duel - ew ardaunt ew ardaunt n. spirits, aqua ardaunt, q.v. IV 197.--The idea seems to be to serve the 'castle' flambe', as is called for in one Ar recipe, no. 139 (a rich version of 'mawmenny'), which adds at the end, 'putte thereon a litel aqua vite and quen hit is dresset in dysshes as hit is before sayde thenne light hit with a wax candel and serue hit forthe brennynge'. Master A says: >> if I remember correctly, there is a recipe for aqua vitae somewhere in Curye On Inglysch, essentially a distillate of spiced wine. << "aqua ardaunt/ardente n. spitits, brandy or aqua vite V 4, 8*, AQUA VITE V 7, distilled spirts. See also ew ardaunt." from the Index and Commentary. >From _Goud Kokery_, #7. Aqua vite: that is to seie, water of liif. Fille thi viol ful of lyes of strong wiyn, & putte therto these poudris: poudir of canel, of clowes, of gyngyuer, of notemugges, of galyngale, of quibibis, of greyn de parys, of longe peper, of blake peper: alle these in powdir. Careawey, cirmunteyn, comyn, fenel, smallage, persile, sauge, myntis, ruwe, calamynte, origanum: and a half unce or moore or lasse, as thee likith. Pownd hem a litil, for it will be the betir, & put hem to these poudris, Thanne sette thi glas on the fier, sett on the houel, & kepe it wel that the hete come not o it; & sette thervndir a viol, & kepe the watir. I included the whole thing, because it has a lot more stuff in it than I thought of as 'aqua vitae'. Allison Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:17:41 -0400 From: Jeff Botkins <jbotkins at ime.net> Subject: Re: SC - Rectified Whiskey draiocht at earthlink.net wrote: > I have a strange question. WHAT is Rectified Whiskey??? > Does this mean like distilled or what? I am sooooo confused! > > Glo IIRC, Recification of whiskey is another term for Redistillation. They would take the distilled alcohol, dilute it, filter it through charcoal and then recify it (this was done to eliminate any remaining impurities). It used to be used to create a more "neutral" spirit whcih became a solvent for use in the manufacture of cordials, liqueurs, and tinctures... Jeff Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:57:00 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Re:Hemp Seed again Brenna wrote: > Forgive me...I am not really ignorant of drugs entirely, but I've heard the > term aqua vitae ("water of life" I believe) and I have no idea what it is. > Can anyone tell me? Aqua vitae, or water of life, to cut to the chase, is water that will burn, and so was supposed to have all kinds of vaguely magical and specifically medicinal qualities. Translated into Gaelic it is called uisgebaugh, pronounced something like whiskvah, and later bowdlerized by English-speakers as whisky. In period usage it is almost any distilled spirit, made from grapes, grain, or other fermentables, with or without spices. The spices, BTW, would be added _before_ distillation, so this stuff is not much like a cordial (in answer to people's next question) ; ) Adamantius Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:48:00 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Al-Cohol Stefan li Rous wrote: > > Corwyn said: > >It is referred to by Moslem alchemists as Al-Cohol MiLady... > > This sounds like a urban legend. Referances or quotes, please. > Dates? Or can someone tell me what that translates into in whatever > language it is in? According to my fair-to-middling desktop dictionary, the word is: (ML < Ar. Al kohl), orig. powder of antimony, meaning changed in European usage. Considering that Arab alchemists are believed to have invented distillation, too, this does seem fairly likely. Adamantius - -- Phil & Susan Troy Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 06:55:23 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Al-Cohol >From the quick ref: Alcohol is an Arabic word derived from al kuhl, kuhl being the powdered antimony used to darken ladies eyelids (kohl). Arab alchemists used it to describe fine powders some of which were prepared by heating until outgassing then cooling. It was generalized to mean a number of substances including essences of distillation. The first recorded use of the word alcohol is in 1543 and is used to describe a heat derived powder. "Alcohol of wine" appears in 1672. Since alcohol is an English word, a check of the OED should provide some of the references required. As for the Arabic distillation of spirits, look for references to Jabir ibn Hayyan, who improved distillation techniques in the 9th Century. I think this was the simple retort with a simple external condenser. The chilled condenser which is needed in producing high potency alcohol is a European design from about the 13th Century. Apocryphally, brandy was first distilled about 1300 at the Montpellier medical school by medical professor Arnoldus Villanovanus AKA Arnaldus de Villa Nova AKA Arnaud de Villeneuve. Bear Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:55:44 -0500 From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain at snet.net> Subject: RE: SC - Al-Cohol At 06:55 15-11-98 -0600, Bear wrote: >"Alcohol of wine" appears in 1672. Since >alcohol is an English word, a check of the OED should provide some of the >references required. I just happen to have a copy right here.... 8) [runs downstairs to grab volume 1] Alcohol Also 6-8 alcool, alcho(h)ol, alcohole. [a. med. L., *alcohol* ad, Arab. *al-koh'l* 'collyrium,' the fine powder used to stain the eyelids, f. *kahala*, Heb. *kakhal*, to stain, paint : see *Ezekiel* xxiii, 40. It appeared in Eng., as in most of the mod. langs. in 16th c. Cf, Fr. *allcohol*, now *alcool*.] 1. *orig*. The fine metallic powder used in the East to stain the eyelids, etc. : powdered ore of antimony, stibnite, or antimony trisulphide known to the Greeks in this use as [Greek alphabet not reproducible here]; also, sometimes, powdered galena or lead ore. *Obs*. [citations omitted, the earliest being from 1615] 2. Hence, by extension (in early *Chem*.): Any fine impalpable powder produced by trituration, or especially by sublimation; as *alcohol martis* reduced iron, *alcohol of sulphur* flower of brimstone, etc. *Obs*. [citations omitted, the earliest being from 1543] 3. By extension to fluids of the idea of sublimation: An essence, quintessence, or 'spirit,' obtained by distillation or 'rectification'; as *alcohol of wine*, essence or spirit of wine. *Obs*. [citations omitted, the earliest being from 1594] b. *fig*. Quintessence, condensed spirit. [one citation from 1830] 4. (Short for *alcohol of wine*, this being the most familiar of 'rectified spirits.') The pure or rectified spirit of wine, the spirituous or intoxicating element in fermented liquors. Also, *popularly*, any liquor containing this spirit. *Absolute* or *anhydrous alcohol*: alcohol entirely free from water. [citations omitted, the earliest being from 1753] [definition 5, referring to organic chemistry, omitted] Alasdair mac Iain Laird Alasdair mac Iain of Elderslie Dun an Leomhain Bhig Canton of Dragon's Aerie [southeastern CT] Barony Beyond the Mountain [northern & southeastern CT] East Kingdom Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:14:03 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Al-Cohol acrouss at gte.net writes: << I know we dont see the use of distilled beverages in EUROPEAN :) >> Good point. The use of distilled products IF it did occur was, IIRC, mainly limited to medicine. It was not until very late period that that it was used as a recreational drug. Benedictine, Chartreuse, gin, Jagermeister, uisgebaugh, Frangelico are just a few examples of distilled and/or spirit compounds which can be traced to medicinal origins. Some of these are marginally period. Others like Bitters, Campali, Dubonnet (a fortified wine), some of the brandies and even early corn whiskeys, although clearly OOP have their origins as medicinals. Not surprisingly most of these products were used to treat stomach and intestinal problems. The recreational drug of choice throughout most of history, up until the second third of this century would have been the opium or hasheesh for those that could afford them and beers/ales/wines for those who could not. It was not until the late 1600's and into the 1700's that we see a rise in consumption of distilled spirits as 'beverages'. This time also coincided with the creation and use of cordials, such as Chambord, as beverages. If you are looking to justify spirit use as a period recreation, I am sorry to say that you will be hard pressed to find documentation for it. And, because of the laws passed in the last 75 years, the period alternatives for recreational drugs are simply not available to modern historical recreationists because of assorted laws that have made those options impractical or illegal unless you have contact with those in assorted subcultures and have the ability to keep your mouth shut when confronted with curious law enforcement personel. Ras Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:33:15 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: SC - Rum and Brown Sugar (was: Isles Anniv Feast) Kinuko wrote: >I thought rum and brown sugar were period ingredients. Granted, they probably >were not combined with butter, but I wanted it in there anyway. :) Rum means spirits distilled from sugar products such as molasses. It apparently was not made until sugar became cheap, which means during the 17th c. when sugar plantations were established in the West Indies by Europeans. Both Anne Wilson (_Food and Drink in Britain_) and the Oxford English Dictionary have as their earliest mentions of rum mid-17th c. references to the West Indies. So as far as I can tell, rum, though not all distilled spirits, is out of our period. Brown sugar these days means refined white sugar which has had a little of the molasses mixed back in. In period, some of the sugar would have been thorough refined, but there would also have been less refined, lower-grade suagr with (particularly in the middle of a sugar loaf) a good deal of the molasses left in; there is at least one 15th-c English recipe which uses "black sugar". So some form of brown sugar does seem to be period. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:08:25 -0400 From: Jeff Gedney <JGedney at dictaphone.com> Subject: SC - Fw: Re: Distilling The Code of Federal Regulations clearly states that ALL spirits produced by distillation are considered to be owing taxes FROM THE MOMENT THEY COME INTO EXISTENCE. There are no exceptions in the code. As for buying tax stamps, 27CFR19 clearly spells out what constitutes a legal facility for the proiduction of spirits by distillation. If your still, whose products you are buying tax stamps for, do not meet those specifications, you are inviolation of federal regulations, and subject to prosecution. If you have a still, you are supposed, according to the regulations, to immediately allow the ATF to inspect and certify the facility AT ANY TIME they choose to visit. Any attempt to hide, dismantle or change the still is a violation of the law. Period. no exceptions. Don't forget, that these regulations are the very same that got Al Capone. They are real and may be vigorously enforced at any time. Just because some local ATF office may look the other way, does not mean they will continue to do so, or that any other branch will look the other way, too. Just because someone you know is not CAUGHT and PROSECUTED distilling alcoholic beverages, does not make it LEGAL If you do not produce alcohol in your still, you are not subject to these laws, so essential oil stills, as long as they are not used with an alcoholic mash, are perfectly legal. brandu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:30:49 -0400 From: Marilyn Traber <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - distilling nope. it is still taking a ferment and rendering out the excess water to make a stronger product. margali Daniel Phelps wrote: > Since this thread has come up I have a question. Not being a chemist I am > not sure what it is called "Freeze Distillation?" mayhaps but I have been > lead to believe that one can use repeated freezing and draining to > concentrate alcohol from say fermented apple juice and thus make "Apple > Jack". And thus by pass the steam distillation process. Is true? Is > legal? > > Daniel Raoul fyi only ;-) the easiest waay to freeze distill is to take a large metal bowl of the liquid, pop it in the freezer. when it gets down to 32 deg fahrenheit, drop in a handfull of icecubes. the excess water congeals on the ice cubes and after a while [typically 15-20 minutes] you take the bowl out of the freezer, remove the ice cubes, let the liquid rise to just above freezing and repeat. Keep in mind that the average brew is from 15% alcohol and less, so you really need a lot of swill to distill. Classic applejack is made by leaving a barrel of hard cider out in the winter, so that when you tap it by drilling into the ice to get to the alcoholic liquid core, you only have a gallon or so of jack. Lots of work for little return. Rectifying is much easier and faster,,, Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:32:50 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Vodka agincort at raex.com writes: << how early is the word Vodka? >> vod*ka (noun) [Russian, from voda water; akin to Old English waeter water] First appeared circa 1803 Ras Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 22:27:51 -0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is> Subject: Re: SC - Vodka Bjarni wrote: >True, if all we're looking for the the English use of the word. I don't >have an historical Russian dictionary, but the earliest quote in OED (where >Ras probably got his info) is from a traveler's account, reporting on >extant Russian usage, that must predate the publication. Any linguists out >there? Well, no, but the following is taken from a book on spirits and liqueurs by wine writer Stuart Walton: The word vodka is a Russian endearment meaning "little water" from their word for water, voda. It doesnt denote the flavourlessness of the spirit, however, but derives from the widespread linguistic practice in Europe of referring to all distillates originally as a form of water (as in the Latin aqua vitae and French eau de vie). Precisely because it is such a simple drink, it is almost impossible to pinpoint the origins of vodka historically. A potent spirit distilled from various grains ... has been made in Poland, Russia and the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia since the very early days of distillation in Europe. But as to where a drink specificially recognizable as vodka first arose is a matter for the Poles and the Russians to sort out between themselves. (Most outsiders, it should be said, tend to come down on the Polish side of the fence these days.) The discovery of rectification techniques did not take place until the beginning of the 19th century, and so these early distillates would have tasted pretty unclean, to say the least.* Any herbs, seeds or berries that were to hand would be steeped in the spirit to mask its rankness. So the first vodkas were not the anonymous products preferred today, but the true ancestors of the flavoured vodkas that are sometimes greeted as nothing more than novelty items by modern drinkers. *) I can vouch for that, having drunk my share of moonshine Icelandic vodka in my tender youth. The following is taken from the website of a White Russian vodka importer: Vodka was created sometime in the twelfth century, probably in Russia, possibly Poland, perhaps even Persia. Starting out as a crude, rye-based spirit used for medical purposes, vodka was known in Russian as zhiznennia voda. In the 1540s the Russian tsar Ivan 'the Terrible' established his own network of distilling taverns and ensured that the profits went straight into the imperial treasury. He outlawed taverns that were outside his control and put a ban on distilling by potential rivals. He kept his options open, however! He was always in need of the support of the nobility, so he allowed them to continue distilling Vodka. Restrictions and threats of savage punishment didn't dampen the enthusiasm of people for vodka-making. Secret distilling survived through the next century. At the same time the tsar's taverns flourished and grew in number to such an extent that, by the late seventeenth century, a visitor to Russia remarked that they outnumbered bath-houses. Successive rulers tightened their monopoly on Vodka distilling but continued to curry favor with the nobility, gentry and government officials by granting them distilling rights. Thus, in addition to its social role, Vodka had considerable political and economic significance in Russia. From the beginning of the seventeenth century it had become customary for Vodka to be served at Russian imperial banquets. All formal meals began with bread and Vodka. Vodka was also drunk ceremonially at religious festivals and in church ritual, and to refuse to partake could be considered impious. Nanna Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 18:25:25 -0400 From: Mahanna <jmmahanna at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: SC - Vodka Nanna writes "Vodka was created sometime in the twelfth century, probably in Russia, possibly Poland, perhaps even Persia. Starting out as a crude, rye-based spirit used for medical purposes, vodka was known in Russian as zhiznennia voda." Well I know little and or nothing about its origins but Zizhnennia voda literally translates to Life Water, and I found that vastly interesting. Morwenna Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:40:27 EDT From: Mordonna22 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Vodka jmmahanna at mindspring.com writes: << Well I know little and or nothing about its origins but Zizhnennia voda literally translates to Life Water, and I found that vastly interesting. >> Latin Aqua Vitae, and French Eau de Vie are also terms for Alcoholic spirits that also mean "water of life." I think you will find that MANY cultures called their booze "the water of life." I think the Scottish term Uisbaugh from which we get the English word whiskey also means something pretty close to the same thing. Mordonna Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:03:15 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Russian embassy meal stefan at texas.net writes: << I thought when you distilled grain you got something closer to bourbon or whiskey? Rather than the clear, practically tasteless modern vodka. >> Bourbon has a very high percentage of corn in it as do other whiskeys. The fermentation process of grain used in vodka production is very different from that which is used for whiskey production. Vodka production involves the use of wheat or rye mash whereas the latter are a mixed mash of corn and other grains. The distillation is done several times until an almost pure alcohol (95 proof/190 per cent) results. The finished distillate is then filtered through charcoal (and sometimes other materials such as diamond chips) several times (typically 3 to 5 times) until it is neutral flavored. The final step is the addition of distilled water to reduce the alcohol down to the most popular strengths such as 80 or 100 proof (40 and 50 per cent alcohol respectively). At least one or two brands that we carry in the store have been produced since the early 1600s CE. Ras Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:13:13 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Russian embassy meal LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > Bourbon has a very high percentage of corn in it as do other whiskeys. > > The fermentation process of grain used in vodka production is very different > from that which is used for whiskey production. Vodka production involves the > use of wheat or rye mash whereas the latter are a mixed mash of corn and > other grains. The distillation is done several times until an almost pure > alcohol (95 proof/190 per cent) results. The finished distillate is then > filtered through charcoal (and sometimes other materials such as diamond > chips) several times (typically 3 to 5 times) until it is neutral flavored. > The final step is the addition of distilled water to reduce the alcohol down > to the most popular strengths such as 80 or 100 proof (40 and 50 per cent > alcohol respectively). At least one or two brands that we carry in the store > have been produced since the early 1600s CE. > > Ras Something to add to the above, in reference to bouirbon and other American whiskeys (what is the grammatically correct plural of whiskey, which would refer to American varieties, and whisky, to British ones?): Corn (i.e. maize) is used in the production of bourbon and sourmash whiskey, and, occasonally, in rye. It is not used, AFAIK, in the production of any European whisky(plural of). As far as vodka goes, while it can be, and has been, made from potatoes, most is now made from grain and it wouldn't surprise me at all if some were made at least in part from maize. In addition to the charcoal filtering, as Ras correctly points out as a difference between vodka and whiskey, there is the even more significant aging process, often in charred (on the inner surface) barrels, normally oak. The oak absorbs some volatile esters, as well as adding tannins and other flavors and color of its own, as does the charcoal on the inner surface. Except to a connoisseur, both potcheen and white lightning (unaged whiskies) bear a pretty close resemblance to vodka, which generally is not aged. Adamantius Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:08:12 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Looking for Grappa info and recipe Grappa is indeed a fermented grape product. After the juice has been pressed from the grapes, the skins and stems left from pressing are allowed to ferment. This mash is then distilled. The result of that distillation is called grappa. It is a relatively harsh drink and is not aged in oak as wine or other brandies are. Ras Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:22:17 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Looking for Grappa info and recipe LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > Grappa is indeed a fermented grape product. After the juice has been pressed > from the grapes, the skins and stems left from pressing are allowed to > ferment. This mash is then distilled. The result of that distillation is > called grappa. It is a relatively harsh drink and is not aged in oak as wine > or other brandies are. > > Ras IIRC (and I may not be), this is the equivalent of the French marc. Adamantius Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:41:18 -0500 From: georg <thegeorg at servtech.com> Subject: Re: SC - Looking for Grappa info and recipe > > I got this inquiry a few days ago and after confirming that grappa was > > indeed a distilled Italian wine, I checked my files but I must not have > > saved the messages that were posted here about grappa in the past. > > > > Her original message was: > > > Hello - > > > I was wondering if you had a recipe for making grappa? Thank you. > > > > And her clarification was: > > > Many thanks for responding...Grappa is indeed an distilled Italian > > > digestive, produced from the discarded skins of grapes used in > > > winemaking. I appreciate your help, > > > -Lorraine It is my understanding that one should press grapes in the normal fashion. The first press is used to make good wine. Then there is a second press, and sometimes water is added to "rinse" the left over bits. Sugar is also often added to this second run. Then it is allowed to ferment as usual. This second run wine is not as tasty as the first, so it is then distilled. IIRC, it gets freeze-distilled to concentrate the flavors that were watered down. For a modern recipe, one could dissolve 2 lbs of sugar in a half gallon of water and pour this over a couple of pounds of crushed grapes, add water to a full gallon, and allow to ferment (pitching yeast if you don't like it wild). Rack off the fruit in a few days, and make wine as usual. When it has fallen clear, you can pop the gallon in your freezer and in two days pour out the liquid. Note: in the US, this freezer step is considered illegal by the BATF. - -georg Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:24:09 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Looking for Grappa info and recipe thegeorg at servtech.com writes: << Then there is a second press, and sometimes water is added to "rinse" the left over bits. Sugar is also often added to this second run. Then it is allowed to ferment as usual. >> Not according to the business rep for the product. Grappa is specifically made from the skins and leftovers from pressing. It is allowed to ferment and then distilled. Second pressing juice is sometimes used to produce brandies or cheap table wine but, according to my sources never used to produce real Grappa. The minimal amount of alcohol produced by the pressing leftovers accounts for it's relatively high price. Ras Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:00:15 -0500From: "Mark.S Harris" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>Subject: SC - Period distilling infoI ran across an interesting chapter on period distillation of wine. If theauthor's hypothesises are correct, then the distillation of wine can betraced back to classical times and not just the 12C AD.This chapter is "Water of Life: its Beginnings and Early History" on page142 in "Liquid Nourishment" of the Food and Society series, edited byC. Anne Wilson. This chapter is also by C. Anne Wilson. Edinburgh UniversityPress, 1993. ISBN 0 7486 0424 3.She details how the distilled wines date from the Gnostic Christians whoused itin a religious ceremony, a baptisim of fire. This distilled wine havinga percentage of alcohol of 35 percent could be doused on a converts headand ignited without burning the convert. From them it was spread throughEurope by the Cathars. When the Cathars were killed off by the Catholicchurch the recipes fell into the hands of the monks. The church and theMonastary leaders denounced the creation of alcohol and tried to stamp itout. However, after realizing that if the spirits were distilled usingthe better methods of distilling it would be too flammable to be used in theheretical baptisim of the head and allowed to be made.While she makes some hypothesises that seem a bit of a jump, her theoriesdo explain some things in my opinion. I would encourage those studyingperiod distilling to take a look at this article.Lord Stefan li Rousstefan at texas.net Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:26:45 -0600 From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu> Subject: Re: SC - new books arrived >One of the books I received was the Domostroi. My memory is not at its best >right now, but IIRC we had a discussion on vodka recently and determined >that it prolly wasn't period. Nay nay moosebreath! Domostroi discusses >distillation of vodka as well as mead, although not in the depth I would >like. As Domostroi is period, and as the lack of depth implies that any >good Russian wife would already know the mechanics of making vodka, I'm >inclined to believe it traces back well into period, though I cannot YET >prove it with any certainty. > >reading on, Puck In the Pouncy translation, she does indeed refer to distilled spirits (which she translates as "vodka"), but the Russian term which is originally used is very vague (it simply means "spirits"). The actual Russian word in the original is <vinnyi>. I talked with my comrades on the Slavic Discussion list about this not too long ago and here is what one had to say. ><vinnyi>, as you suspect, cannot refer to vodka, at least not in period. From >another secondary source (with a good survey of primary sources, etc) I >remember the comment that vodka, and other distilled spirits, did not make >their appearance in Russia before the XVII century, and when it did, >distillation and sale were strictly regulated by the crown (hear: state >monopoly). >Predslava The secondary source that Predslava mentions above is Bread and Salt by R.E.F. Smith. According to Smith, some believe that vodka was introduced as early as the 14th century, but that probably vodka did not appear until the 16th century and that the distillation process was probably introduced by the West. The Domostroi mention of distilled spirits may even be a later addition, for all we know. If vodka-making and distribution was controlled by the state, why would the conservatively-minded author of the Domostroi say that a woman should know how to do such unlawful things? Yana (Ilyana Barsova) jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~jdmiller2 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:15:19 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - new books arrived Jenn/Yana wrote: > >One of the books I received was the Domostroi. My memory is not at its best > >right now, but IIRC we had a discussion on vodka recently and determined > >that it prolly wasn't period. Nay nay moosebreath! Domostroi discusses > >distillation of vodka as well as mead, although not in the depth I would > >like. As Domostroi is period, and as the lack of depth implies that any > >good Russian wife would already know the mechanics of making vodka, I'm > >inclined to believe it traces back well into period, though I cannot YET > >prove it with any certainty. > > > >reading on, Puck > > In the Pouncy translation, she does indeed refer to distilled spirits > (which she translates as "vodka"), but the Russian term which is originally > used is very vague (it simply means "spirits"). The actual Russian word in > the original is <vinnyi>. If I remember correctly (A. cackles insanely at the inherent unlikeliness of it all) the vodka spoken of in the Domestroi refers to a mead distillate. The concept of vodka as we know it, presumably a grain and/or potato product, is probably newer. I assume vinnyi basically means "booze", although pretty clearly a reference to wine and similar products. > I talked with my comrades on the Slavic > Discussion list about this not too long ago and here is what one had to say. > > ><vinnyi>, as you suspect, cannot refer to vodka, at least not in period. From > >another secondary source (with a good survey of primary sources, etc) I > >remember the comment that vodka, and other distilled spirits, did not make > >their appearance in Russia before the XVII century, and when it did, > >distillation and sale were strictly regulated by the crown (hear: state > >monopoly). > >Predslava > > The secondary source that Predslava mentions above is Bread and Salt by > R.E.F. Smith. According to Smith, some believe that vodka was introduced as > early as the 14th century, but that probably vodka did not appear until the > 16th century and that the distillation process was probably introduced by > the West. The Domostroi mention of distilled spirits may even be a later > addition, for all we know. If vodka-making and distribution was > controlled by the state, why would the conservatively-minded author of the > Domostroi say that a woman should know how to do such unlawful things? Particularly when so much of the rest of the text is devoted to the care of her soul? Adamantius Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:37:05 -0800 (PST) From: Terri Spencer <taracook at yahoo.com> Subject: SC - Origanum And before Ras asks, here's the recipe: From Gervase Markham's 1615 _The English Housewife_: To make Doctor Stevens' water To make that sovereign water which was first invented by Doctor Stevens, in the same form as he delivered the receipt to the Archbishop of Canterbury, a little before the death of the said doctor: take a gallon of good Gascon wine, then take ginger, galingale, cinnamon, nutmegs, grains, cloves bruised, fennel seeds, caraway seeds, origanum, of every of them a like quantity, that is to say a dram; then take sage, wild marjoram, pennyroyal, mints, red roses, thyme, pellitory, rosemary, wild thyme, camomile, lavender, of each of them a handful, then bray the spices small, and bruise the herbs and put all into the wine, and let it stand so twelve hours, only stir it divers times; then distil it by a limbeck, and keep the first water by itself, for that is the best, then keep the second water for that is good, and for the last neglect it not, for it is very wholesome though the worst of the three. Now for the virtue of this water it is this, it comforteth the spirits and vital parts, and helpeth all inward diseases that cometh of cold, it is good against the shaking of the palsy, and cureth the contraction of sinews, and helpeth the conception of women that be barren; it killeth the worms in the body, it cureth the cold cough, it helpeth the toothache, it comforteth the stomach and cureth the old dropsy, it helpeth the stone in the bladder and in the reins, it helpeth a stinking breath; and whosoever uses this water moderately and not too often, preserveth him in good liking, and will make him seem young in old age. Who could resist such a miracle potion? Tara Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:37:59 -0500 From: "Jeff Gedney" <JGedney at dictaphone.com> Subject: Re: SC - Distilling (Was Origanum) > > but I wouldn't put it past the > > government to change it's mind in the 20 some odd years since that memory. > > As to home distilling, they did... during the Reagan years. The Carter > administration opened up home distilling for alternative fuel. > The two hundred gallons you're thinking of are mead, beer or wine, as in > fermented beverages. While the BATF won't go out of their way to find you if > you ARE distilling, it's usually not advisable. For reference ... the one > case I know of where they did intervene it was an individual who was > distilling and selling at events. They made a polite visit and essentially > said "We know you're doing it, at the moment we can't figure out HOW you're > doing it ... but if you keep doing it we will." He took the hint. Correct in several particulars. The still plans available from the Govt are of two varieties: Water purification and Fuel production Water may be distilled at will. Fuesl alcohol may be distilled under special circumstances BUT the product must be rigourously accounted for, and "denatured" with an approved chemical to render it unfit for drinking. No "Home Distillilation" of potable alcohol of any sort is permitted in the USA. Period. Not even "Freeze separation". However, the Recipe in Digby _MIGHT_ be repoducable by mixing the herbes in BRANDY filtering that off. here is a notion that I just thought of: Illegal Distillation is roughly defined as _intensifying_ the alcoholic content of a beverage without license or with taxes owing. It is unknown to me if it is illegal to re-distill a beverage which has already been distilled, and all Taxes paid. Perhaps that should be asked of the BATF?. If the spiced brandy is then distilled, the result might be legal and a close approximation of the recipe > I think there is a brewing list for this btw.... so I apologize for anybody's > bandwidth being wasted. There is a list which is basically designed around the premise of legally finding a way to replicate or duplicate period distilled beverages. sca-dist2 at onelist.com brandu Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:41:40 -0600 From: davi