crossbows-msg - 1/31/12
Period and SCA crossbows.
NOTE: See also the files: crossbows-lnks, arch-shoots-msg, arrows-msg, quivers-msg, arch-supplies-msg, archery-books-msg, bowstrings-msg, Arrow-Matchng-art.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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FROM: Bruce Irvin
SUBJECT: Re: Crossbow assistance
> Anyone out there know anything about period crossbows? I'm looking to
> acquire one sometime in the near future and would like to know if any of
> you have any good recommendations...
> And no, I'm not really worried as long as the price is comparable to
> modern ones ($250 range or so)
Please write Meistare Elom Eikinskjalde at P.O. Box 125, Gainesville, FL
32602-0125 (An Crosaire's official mailbox). He has plans available for
making your own crossbow - far less than $250, and they are NICE. It'd be a
good idea to include some funds for photocopying and an appropriate size
SASE. I _think_ a dollar would cover costs, but then, he wasn't charging
the Barony for his research ( then again, he's our Baron :) - a little extra
would be hard to refuse, given the Gainesville Postal Disservice.
In service,
Brion Gennadyevich
* Origin: The WARLOCK's Castle, An Crossaire, Trimaris! (1:3601/70)
From: st1xe at jane.uh.edu (Brown, Derek S)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Crossbow book
Date: 8 Apr 1993 10:50 CDT
Organization: University of Houston
Earlier I was asked to get the info on how to make a crossbow string. Rather
than try to explain the entire process (though if enough people ask me to
I will) I did get the best source I have been able to find. If is called:
The Crossbow
Mediaeval and Modern
Military and Sporting
Its construction, history, and management
by Ralph Payne-Gallwey
published by The Holland Press Ltd.
ISBN # 0-946323-14-3
Good Luck
William Silke
Ansteorra
From: Alberic6 <alberic6 at delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: growing a crossbow
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 00:45:53 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info at delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Jeff Suzuki <jeffs at math.bu.EDU> writes:
>>I was wondering if anyone out there had any ideah or could point me
>>to a book title on how to home grow a crossbow.
Greetings:
I've built several, and am currently engaged in constructing one in the
1000+ pound range. Of the people who build them regularly, I'm the only one
I know of online. (Before someone from Caid jumps me, my knowledge ends
in Texas...) If you have any particular questions, E-mail me, and I'll try
to put you in touch with the people you need.
Two reccomendations:
Best book in English: Sir Ralph Payne-Gallway's "The Crossbow: it's use, con
struction and management"
Fairly good descriptions of externals, but he was a dabbler: absolutely
*do not* trust him for anything inside the body of the tiller, or any
mechanisms. I've discovered that one the hard way by actually building one
of his lock mechanisms, only to discover that what he had drawn was mechanically
impossible. (In point of fact, the only way I could get the trigger to work
was by adding an extra part that isn't visible from the outside, and also
to totally change the operational principle of the whole device...)
The book with the best pictures (X-rays of period bows so you can see
what's *really* going on inside!)
Egon Harmuth's "Die Armbrust" Unfortunately, it's in German.
I've heard rumours of an English translation, but haven't seen it yet.
Hope this helps, if not contact me at:
ALBERIC6 at DELPHI.COM
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: growing a crossbow
From: david.razler at compudata.com (David Razler)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 01:55:00 -0500
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245
>I was wondering if anyone out there had any idea or could point me
>to a book title on how to home grow a crossbow.
JS>First, you obtain crossbow seeds. This is the difficult part, but
JS>they are available in some catalogs...;-)
Oh, come on!
1) Contact Master Iolo (David R. Watson) prop. of New World Arbalest and buy
one of his kits - or just one of his bows - you'll learn a good deal of what
you need to know from either experience. 201 W. Crestland Drive, Austin Tx.
78752-2427 or (512) 453-2628.
2) get a copy of Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey's The Crossbow (of 1903,
republished last in 1990 by Holland Press) and Egon Harmuth's Die Armbrust,
Ein Handbuch, ISBN 3-201-01298-x, 1986, Austria, and a good English-German
dictionary.
Aleksandr the Traveller
[david.razler at compudata.com]
From: caradoc at neta.com (John Groseclose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Crossbows and a Question
Date: 28 Jun 1995 04:01:02 GMT
Organization: Who? Me? Organized?
In article <950625163053.414016a2 at vax2.utulsa.edu>, IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu
(I. Marc Carlson) wrote:
<snip>
>The trigger assembly has only two moving parts: the nut that holds the
>string, and the sear/trigger. There is a small metal strip that acts
>as a spring to push the trigger down, thus holding the sear in its place
>on the nut until the trigger is pulled up. At this point the tension,
>on the string, rotates the nut in a circle, releasing the projectile.
>
>The nut was often carved from bone, and generally had a groove in the
>upper section, to hold the arrow, so that when the string was
>released, it moved the arrow smoothly.
>
>Now for two questions:
>
>a: What is the trigger made from?
>
>b: What sort of glue may be used that is flexible enough to use for
>compound bows?
A: In all of the examples in my books, the trigger mechanism is made of
iron or mild steel. In one example the actual nut is brass, but the
sear/trigger is mild steel.
B: I can only assume you meant composite bow, as the "compound" bow uses
pulleys and cams to provide a "roll-off" of draw weight. The glue used in
the example listed is made from horn or hoof, boiled. Don't forget the
small cross-hatching grooves in most sections of a composite bow to
increase the surface area for gluing.
--
John Groseclose <caradoc at neta.com> -- HTTP://www.neta.com/~caradoc/
From: nqf2312 at is2.nyu.edu (Norman J. Finkelshteyn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: First Knight
Date: 17 Jul 1995 02:35:19 GMT
Organization: New York University
David F Shallcross (davids at konig.bellcore.com) wrote:
: In article <3ttra6$48e at gabriel.keele.ac.uk> csr50 at teach.cs.keele.ac.uk (B. Watkins) writes:
: [lots of stuff]
: >And boy oh boy did I miss Merlin and Excalibur and Mordred. Who is this
: >Malagant person, and where did he get those funny little crossbows?
: Both in Cretien de Troyes' version and Mallory's version of
: The Knight of the Cart, someone with a name like Malagaunt
: abducts Guinevere, and Lancelot rescues her.
As for hand-held crossbows -
I didn't see the movie, so theirs may be different but
"Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight" shows a painting of a saint
carying a "pistol" crossbow - round about the twelfth century I think.
Nahum Kuzari
From: "David R.Watson" <crossbow at moontower>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: The Crossbow by Payne-Gallwey
Date: 16 Sep 1995 17:15:22 GMT
Organization: New World Arbalest
Hello: Payne Gallwey is still the most readily available book in
English on crossbows. Chivalry Sports newsletter/catalog is advertising
a copy of Payne Gallwey for abbout $12. I suspect that is a paperback.
You might also look for: The Crossbow, by W. Paterson, published by
Society of Archer Antiquaries. Survey of European Crossbows, by Joseph
Alm, published by Her Majestey's Stationery Office. (Tower of London),
and Die Armbrust, the most authoritative source I have found, Pub. 1986,
by Egon Harmuth, Graz, Austria. This last is available only in German,
but is worth the $30 for the illustrations alone. Get in touch with
G.F. Armoury Books, in Tuscon (That's William Taylor), his address can
be found in the Pennsic book. If you want this book, Bill told me at
Pennsic that he can order it for interested customers. Good hunting.
Iolo
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sirjon at netcom.com (John Edgerton)
Subject: Re: Crossbow prods wanted
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:54:15 GMT
at chch.planet.co.nz wrote:
: Out here in the Southern Reaches of Caid (New Zealand), we are a long way from
: the mainland and so getting certain supplies can be difficult, so I am writing
: in the hope that someone can help me source crossbow prods (I think that is
: the correct word). I am currently in the process of making a crossbow for the
: purpose of mixed combat so I need a 30 pound bow. The ones I have seen were
: made by New World Arbalest (I've tried to contact them but have only got their
: answer phone) out of some sort of aluminium (apparently no available here). If
: you think that you can help me, please mail me at rsutton at chch.planet.co.nz. I
: would really appreciate any help. There is a reasonable amount of interest in
: this project so we may be able to do a group order.
: Thanks
: Gilbert de Montfort
: rsutton at chch.planet.co.nz
Try: Aalchemical Transmutation Co. He makes tempered steel prods and
other steel crossbow parts. James Koch 314 East 195th., Euclid, Ohio
44119. (216) 481-9862. He is on the list of traditional bow making
suppliers.
Sir Jon Fitz-Rauf. Esfenn, Mists, West
From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Crossbow Materials
Date: 3 Oct 1995 16:36:36 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Ok, I've tried to be a good little boy, but I can't help myself.
I've finally gotten a hold of a copy of Payne-Gallwey, and it looks like
a good work, as long as certain variations in jargon are overlooked.
Several months ago, there was some question about my suggestions for
a 12th C cross bow to use a composite bow form with an Antler nut,
based on material that I pulled from Arthur MacGregor's work on
skeletal technology.
Payne-Gallwey not only supports MacGregor's suggestion (and I suspect,
based on the drawing of the trigger mechanism, was his source) for these
items but indeed verifies that "Steel nuts and sockets were not generally
fitted to crossbows till about 1640-1650" (Footnote on page 97). More
over while he states that they were made from "Horn", he proceeds to
describe what "horns" on a Stag's "Crown of Antlers" were best.
I apologize to any bystanders who are nauseated by gloating. I should
be back to my more acerbic self shortly...
"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep
-- St. Dunstan Northkeepshire, Ansteorra
(I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)
From: "David R.Watson" <crossbow at moontower>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Crossbow Materials
Date: 5 Oct 1995 13:45:12 GMT
Organization: New World Arbalest
Regarding crossbow materials amd sources. The great majority of
medieval and renaissance crossbows used staghorn nuts. The section you
want is at the very base of the horn, adjoining the skull. You also
want a piece with the least possible pith. The best horn I have seen
for the purpose is probably moose horn, in which there is a great deal
of useable ivory and when there is pith, it is usually very tight.
Payne Gallwey's book is the most easily available source. The best
overall book is Egon Harmuth's "Die Armbrust" published in Graz,
Austria, 1986. German only, with great illustrations. Other excellent
works on Medieval crossbows are: "A Guide to the Crossbow", by W.
Paterson, pub. by Society of Archer Antiquaries, and Joseph Alm's
"Survey of European Crossbows" pub. by Her Majestey's Stationery Office
(Tower of London) Both of these books are in English, and have plenty
of fascinating detail. Look them up. I have had good luck getting off
the wall books like this from G.F. Armoury Books, of Tuscon (Get 'em on
the Field Armoury.) Have fun with your crossbows.
Iolo,
crossbow at moontower.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret)
Subject: Re: Crossbow Materials
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:22:36
Organization: PSU
"David R.Watson" <crossbow at moontower> writes:
> Regarding crossbow materials amd sources. The great majority of
>medieval and renaissance crossbows used staghorn nuts. The section you
>want is at the very base of the horn, adjoining the skull. You also
>want a piece with the least possible pith. The best horn I have seen
>for the purpose is probably moose horn, in which there is a great deal
>of useable ivory and when there is pith, it is usually very tight.
> Payne Gallwey's book is the most easily available source. The best
>overall book is Egon Harmuth's "Die Armbrust" published in Graz,
>Austria, 1986. German only, with great illustrations. Other excellent
>works on Medieval crossbows are: "A Guide to the Crossbow", by W.
>Paterson, pub. by Society of Archer Antiquaries, and Joseph Alm's
>"Survey of European Crossbows" pub. by Her Majestey's Stationery Office
>(Tower of London) Both of these books are in English, and have plenty
>of fascinating detail. Look them up. I have had good luck getting off
>the wall books like this from G.F. Armoury Books, of Tuscon (Get 'em on
>the Field Armoury.) Have fun with your crossbows. Iolo,
>crossbow at moontower.com
An English translation of Harmuth is available from HMSO (Tower of London) but
is only available in the UK. I do not know if they will ship to US.
Ferret
From: sirb at hevanet.com (Phred Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Crossbow prods wanted
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 22:24:55 -0800
Organization: Sir Blackhand
I am writing in the hope that someone can help me source crossbow prods.
>
> Gilbert de Montfort
> rsutton at chch.planet.co.nz
Greetings From Y Blackhand
Try the following WWW site. It has a list of manufactures that I used to
find prods for my project. Plus items on history, making, hunting, and a
glossary.
I'm making tennisball shooting crossbows for combat archery.
(Crossbows)
http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~roy/crossbows.html
alt.archery
Good luck
Y Blackhand KSCA OL OP
Omnia Pecuniae
From: pgarcia at unm.edu (Phil Garcia)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: New Edition "The Crossbow"
Date: 28 Nov 1995 19:52:26 -0700
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Dover has just released a copy of Ralph Payne-Gallwey's book
"The Book of the Crossbow" ISBN 0-486-287203.
Cover price $17.95.
The copy I have appears to be an unaltered and unabridged
copy of the 1907 version I have.
Hope this helps,
Phil
pgarcia at chicoma.la.unm.edu
From: "David R. Watson" <crossbow at moontower.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: New Edition "The Crossbow"
Date: 2 Dec 1995 01:03:21 GMT
Organization: MoonTower Inc - Austin Texas Internet
Hello, Folks: Iolo here. Payne Gallwey's books is a good resource
book on crossbows. This is the old standby. It's not always entirely
correct, but pretty much everything works if you do it his way. This
book at less than $20 is a steal. I recommend it. Yeah, Harmuth's "Die
Armbrust" is more authoritative, but how many of us are really competent
in technological German? Iolo Sez Check it Out.
From: david.razler at postoffice.worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: crossbow help...please?
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:34:57 GMT
"Milo Le Roux (mka Floyd Brigdon)" <brigdon1 at airmail.net> wrote:
| 1) Are there any companies or SCAdians making crossbows of SCA
| poundage with modern trigger assemblies?
1) There were some, but few complex locks in period. They did not have modern
triggers 2) While bows with modern triggers are probably available, most
likely through suppliers of "traditional" English sporting crossbows, and
while you may be able to custom-order one from New World Arbalest, if Iolo is
willing to make one, my question is why sink a substantial piece of change
into buying something which is deliberately anti-authentic? It is like
deciding that you are going to buy garb for Society wear, and deliberately and
knowingly spending hundreds of dollars on a reproduction Roaring 20s
"gangster" suit.
| 2) How much different to shoot is the historically accurate trigger
| assembly?
Much and not much - the effect is the same, but ASSUMING BOWS OF EQUAL
QUALITY, the period bow requires a slightly different stance and a
little more concern about aim and slow, even trigger release.
Though more complex locks were known in period <for starters, see New World's
Uncle Iolo's First Book of Crossbows and Ralph Payne-Galleway's The Crossbow
<not the Dover edition> which includes diagrams for both reproduction and
'modern' sporting bows which can be turned into plans adaptable to Society
use, (though again I ask why put in all the effort and expense to build
something wrong when right is easier and better)> the simple locks found on
most Society bows (direct-activated roller or rising pin) were by far the most
common and most reliable.
Old lock stiles do require a bit of care when firing to make super-accurate.
You need to be concerned about not moving the stock as you fire. It is not
terribly hard to master, and is unorthodox to someone who expects anything
with a trigger to fire like a modern gun.
The modern gunstock-style crossbow stock, a post-period invention, sits more
easily on the shoulder (where period crossbows were not necessarily fired
from) and spreads the (relatively minimal) recoil over a larger surface area.
If recoil is the problem, the best method of maintaining period appearance and
solving the problem is probably a hard surface/soft backed pad inserted under
the archer's *clothing* and therefore invisible.
Yes, modern bows with complex releases may, if made well, be a bit easier to
handle and more forgiving to sloppy handling than anything Iolo or our other
crossboyers turn out. Then again, a fiberglass-stocked crossbow with a
compound prod, laser sight, mercury-filled stabilizers and an
solenoid-released roller is probably even more accurate.
We ban the last, permitting any crossbow with a wooden stock, period or not.
But why bother?
David M. Razler
david.razler at worldnet.att.net
From: jdirocco at sprynet.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Crossbow information.
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 06:01:43 GMT
claude at nickel.laurentian.ca wrote:
> I have a quick question. Does anyone know when the first crossbow was
>constructed and used in actual combat ?
> Claude.
The crossbow principle was first used by the Greeks, Romans, and eary
Byzantines for siege weapons. The first use as an infantry weapon are
Frankish early 10th cent.. Record at siege of Senlis 949 and Verdum
985.
Giovanni
From: pcrandal at flash.net (P. Crandall Polk)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Building a medieval crossbow.
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 01:03:48 GMT
> I wish to construct a medieval crossbow to add to my medieval weapons
>collection. What I need to know is how they where made ? What king of
>material was used for the various parts ? What kind of finish was used ?
>What kind of trigger mechanism was used ? Are there any plans available ?
http://www.moontower.com/crossbow/
Last time I checked this was the address of New World Arbelest.
Don Iolo Fitzowen makes authentic reproductions and will help you.
--
Crandall
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: FIBERGLASS SHAFTS LEGAL?
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:08:54 GMT
Jay Stranahan ("jaystr at jaystr" at best.com) wrote:
: I am currently putting together a loaner armory of 3 crossbows, wih the
: vague idea of arming a retinue of men-at-arms to give me fire support
: and generally raise merry hell. I have the wood for the stocks and the
: aluminum prods & all the rest of the components I require, but dare not
: assemble them until I know what we're going to allow in the way of
: munitions.
It is possible to construct a crossbow for golf tube arrows that an insert
can be added to when you wish to fire wood or fiberglass bolts, either for
combat or target archery. My lord recently added one to his, which
attatches with screws (going through the wood insert to metal receivers
implanted in the stock). He's seen no difference in firing either kind
with the golftube width nut the bow uses.
--Morgan (Max)
-- ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry at netcom.com>
Sleepy Cat Graphis http://emporium.turnpike.net/Z/zen/index.html
P.O. Box 608048 - The Church of Zen Fatalism -
San Diego, CA 92160 Artful Things Gallery
From: Christa Fulton <crealtor at ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: FIBERGLASS SHAFTS LEGAL?
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:00:44 GMT
destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker) wrote:
>It is possible to construct a crossbow for golf tube arrows that an insert
>can be added to when you wish to fire wood or fiberglass bolts, either for
>combat or target archery. My lord recently added one to his, which
>attatches with screws (going through the wood insert to metal receivers
>implanted in the stock). He's seen no difference in firing either kind
>with the golftube width nut the bow uses.
>
>--Morgan (Max)
Good idea but the problem with that is then your Crossbow will have the
equvelent of a 30lb bow and with a golf tube you do need the extra 20 lbs
to get it to work. If your Cross Bow is set for Golf Tube pulls
they are illegal in battle with a wood shafted arrow.
Now for target archery have fun with it.
Labhrainn
From: james koch <alchem at en.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Combat crossbows
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 21:19:49 -0400
Organization: alchem inc
Dabhaidh wrote:
> Are there any web sites with SCA combat crossbow information (such
> as some images and perhaps construction info)?
>
> Dabhaidh Donnachaidh
> "Virtutis Gloria merces"
I don't know of any web sites, and I search the subject weekly.
However there is an excellent book available for $5 from J.P.W. Griswold
entitled "On Constructing Iaian's Combat Crossbow". To order a copy
send $5.50 to J.P.W. Griswold / PO Box 94 / Fountain, Michigan /
49410-0094. This is a highly detailed work and gives directions which
can be adapted to target crossbows as well (for instance string
construction).
Also, Iaian is currently selling combat crossbows in both a kit
form and fully finished. For pricing and shipping information he can be
phoned at (616)462-3337.
If you want target crossbow plans, these can be viewed for the
time being at "www.en.com/users/lmduchez/alchem/". Jim Koch (Gladius)
From: james koch <alchem at en.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Crossbow order info
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:27:21 -0400
Organization: alchem inc
About a week ago I added a page to my corporate web site depicting
crossbows being manufactured by Medieval Archers Supply in Redmond,
Washington. Today I have added contact information for those
individuals wishing to order a bow from M.A.S. The updated page can be
viewed by visiting "http://www.alcheminc.com" and selecting the
appropriate link. Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
From: james koch <alchem at en.com>
Organization: alchem inc
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Crossbow Construction Book
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:54:36 GMT
Red Iain recently provided me with his e-mail address and I have added
it to the page dedicated to his book entitled "On Constructing Iain's
Combat Crossbow". Don't be fooled by the title. This book gives you
all the information necessary to construct any sort of crossbow. Even
the how tos on string making. I put this information to good use this
past week when I made my first crossbow string. The book ordering
information can be found at "http://www.alcheminc.com". Jim Koch
(Gladius The Alchemist)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:25:46 -0400
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: Merryrose <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>, sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu,
stefan at texas.net
Subject: Crossbow Books and a Rumor of Harmuth's Die Armbrust In English.
Stefan, (et al,)
Somewhere in your crossbow section I believe you have a note stating
that there was an English translation to be had at the Tower of
London. Having Egon Harmuth's _Die Armbrust_, and not reading German,
but being the technical buff I am, I enlisted Melanie's help in
running the rumor to ground. Thanks Melanie.
The originals:
DIE ARMBRUST, Ein Handbuch, (The Crossbow, a Handbook)
by Egon Harmuth, Akadem. Druk, 1975.
ISBN 3-201-01298-x, 1986, Austria, (In German)
also-
Die Armbrust, Ein Handbuch,
DIE ARMBRUST - EINE SPORTWAFFE
by Egon Harmuth; E. Heer and C. Vetterli, Schlapfer & Co., 1976.
(also in German)
The Royal Armouries at Leeds have no knowledge of a copy in English.
I had mentioned the possible availabity at the Tower. I had sent
Dr. Turner all the information I could find. See below:
RE: Die Armbrust in English?
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:00:17 +0100
From: Paula Turner <Paula.Turner at armouries.org.uk>
Mr Howe:
I am afraid we do not supply translations of Die Armbrust; I cannot
track down any reference to this in the past, but it may have been
available through our shop in the Tower of London at one time. I think
I would need to see the original reference to be able to give you any
further information.
Alm's book of crossbows is indeed available again: please let me know
if you would like to order a copy. We have no other books on crossbows
specifically at present, though a book on Springalds or great crossbows
is in the press and should be available in October.
Many thanks for your enquiry,
Paula Turner
........
Melanie asked HMSO, MoLondon and the Tower for me:
> Well HMSO, The Tower of London Library, Museum of London all say it
was never done in translation, and the Tower said Harmuth was an
update of Payne-Gallway.
........
The Joseph Alm Book is _European Crossbows: A Survey_ and currently
sells for 9.95 GBPounds. Cost me 12.99 GBP from Bookpages UK this week
including shipping. (British sister company of Amazon) Same price
listed at the Armouries. Their page said it was being reprinted.
It is a paperback and is considered one of the better books on the
subject. ii + 122pp, 71 b/w illustrations, ISBN 0 948092 20 3
Payne-Gallway's _The Crossbow_ is out in multiple editions by different
publishers and at least one of them leaves out a chapter or two at
the back. This is why I have more than one copy. They vary widely in
price. A Dover for $18 (ISBN 0-486-287203) to about $50 elsewhere.
I am under the impression from talks with other folks it may be
complete. My two are from other publishers.
There is also a book by him on siege engines and catapults from about
1907. On careful examination with the above books in hand it is
basically just a reorganization of the same pictures and text from
the final chapters in _The Crossbow_. It is NOT worth tracking down
separately. You won't find anything worth the effort. I ILL'ed it.
It looks like a separate attempt to remilk the same cow.
Egon Harmuth's Die Armbrust and the P-G Crossbows book look to me to
be fairly different in many aspects. So I don't really see Die Armbrust
as _The Crossbow_ reworked. I own both.
The new book coming out on Springalds should be interesting to folks.
I don't have the specifics and it's not on the page yet but only a
month away.
Here is the Armouries Publications page address:
http://www.armouries.org.uk/collections/publications.htm
The Armories contact information is as follows:
Dr Paula Turner, Head of Publications, <Paula.Turner at armouries.org.uk>
Royal Armouries,
Armouries Drive
LEEDS. LS10 1LT UK. Telephone: +44 (0)113 2201999
(For those who may not know the Armouries moved most of the collection
from London to Leeds a couple of years ago.)
>I am sending this note to you so someone else won't go chasing their
tail. I'd heard that English translation rumor elsewhere. It appears
that is just what it is.<
If anyone DOES have a copy of Die Armbrust in English will you please
let Stefan know the specifics - title, publisher, address, ISBN, date.
I'm more than willing to stand corrected. I'd like a copy myself.
stefan at texas.net - Stefan's Florilegium / Rialto Files.
Master Magnus Malleus, Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia and the GDHorde.
Subject: Re: ANST - Archery question
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 98 06:05:13 MST
From: Hugh Niewoehner <hughn at ssd.fsi.com>
To: Ansteorra <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>
Tim Lozos (timden at lcc.net) said something that sounded like:
> I would like to acquire a decent cross bow and arrows. Can anyone put me in
> touch with someone who has/makes them? I have noticed that HE Octavia put a
> very nice perfectly round bruise in the center of a friend's chest, and was
> told that this was the result of a very nice crossbow....
This may be far afield for you but...there is also a Master Kazmiriz in
Grimfells (Fayetteville, AR) who does excellent working bows.
Chris Nogy <cnogy at DICKSONSTREET.COM>
There are some pictures of the bow he made for Ealdormere Coronation at:
http://users.dicksonstreet.com/~cnogy/xbow/
Damon
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:12:01 -0400
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y at virginia.edu>
To: Atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: [MR] Crossbow stock rule interpretation
Noble friends of the bow,
While retyping my TA Marshal class hand-out (lost when my computer blew
up: a lesson there), I was struck by an ambiguity of the following rule:
*3.9.2.5* Crossbows with a modern pistol grip, modern rifle or
air-rifle-style stock are not allowed.
It is the use of the word "modern" here that made me think. There
certainly were period crossbows with rifle stocks. I have several photos
of German models from the 16th century in some of my books, and here is
a similar model for sale: http://www.a2armory.com/crflpimewe.html . I
interpret this rule to mean the the crossbow is prohibited if the design
is "modern" like this
http://mach5selfdefense.com/images/cb5-crossbow.jpg , but not because of
the existence of a shoulder stock itself.
So what is the consensus? Is a stocked crossbow of period design allowed
under this rule?
Lord Mungo Napier, Shire of Isenfir Target Archery Marshal
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:22:24 -0400
From: Siegfried <siegfried at crossbows.biz>
To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] Crossbow stock rule interpretation
Good Lord Mungo, if I may help to shed some light.
The situation you are describing, is exactly correct. That rule was put
into place, during a time of much controversy, and around the same time
as the anti-modern rules for the listfields were created.
Where multiple complaints were being heard, about archers using
'obviously modern' "You know it when you see it" styles of crossbows in
Atlantia.
Atlantia always likes to hold itself to a higher regard in martial
matters towards period authenticity. (No 'stick' polearms, appearance
rules, etc). This was (still is) a problem at Pennsic. Where if you
attend the champions shoot, of the 'best of the best' of the Known World
in target archery. You will find numerous archers shooting crossbows
that look almost like your second picture ... or that have 'Air Rifle'
stocks, such as: http://is.gd/5L4Iad
The decision was made to disallow these obviously modern stocks from our
fields.
You are correct, that there are of course 'period rifle stocks'. But
all versions of them, including the one you posted (Which actually, I
might argue from my documentation is really a 17th century style, I'd
love to see your documentation there) ... Look remarkably different.
Therefore, any 'period crossbow stock'. OR 'period rifle stock that
happens to have a crossbow prod attached to it' (as we know that
influences were shared) ... are perfectly fine and period.
Basically: "If it looks modern, and smells modern. It's modern"
If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to elaborate. I was
Kingdom TA Marshal when that rule was put into place.
Siegfried
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:26:46 -0400
From: Siegfried <siegfried at crossbows.biz>
To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] Crossbow stock rule interpretation
<< Thank you for the question and this answer. I believe Ansteorra may have
a similar rule. >>
They may, a number of kingdoms do. (And then, there are some kingdoms
that embrace the modern rifle stocks instead)
<<< Basically: "If it looks modern, and smells modern. It's modern" >>>
<< I find this a bit too fuzzy. I'd prefer to see something a bit more
definitive myself. >>
Understood, there was much discussion between senior marshals at the
time to try to come up with good wording. And what you have is the best
we could do. The problem is, without having 20 pages of pictures, you
just can't do a description justice.
Therefore we ended up with the simple 'no modern rifle stocks or air
rifle stocks' aspect. As to the 99% mark, most people understand that,
and will understand when they see it.
To someone who has a 'period style rifle stock' (say, based upon an
existing arquebus, or 16th century crossbow) ... it might be suggested
that they carry a page of documentation (picture of extant example),
just in case any marshal did question it.
(And again, that was part of the point, to encourage people doing
'medieval archery', and not using Barnett Commandos they picked up at
Walmart)
Siegfried
<the end>
