c-archery-msg - 6/4/01 Combat archery in the SCA. NOTE: See also the files: CA-Hunt-Tips-art, CA-safe-nocks-art, C-A-handbook-art, croosbows-msg, fiber-blunts-art, arch-supplies-msg, archery-SCA-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with seperate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the orignator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous mark.s.harris@motorola.com stefan@florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: Sionnaichan am Diolaimadh To: Philip O'conall 15-Apr-90 10:34pm Subject: SCA Archery [How to make arrows] *LONG* > M'Lord, if you described such arrows herein, I am sorry tosay I missed > it.... Would you please relay design particulars? I would appreciate input on the construction method found below. This is a combination of what Lord Tempus taught the Barony of Darkwater last Thursday, my personal experience, and the tearing apart of a broken Trimaris list-legal arrow to see the construction style hidden by duct tape. I'll keep this on file pending changes and improvements, and post it as significant changes are tested in the field. Having no prejudices in this field, being a relative newcomer, I have no difficulty in trying out new ideas within safety tolerances, and would be happy to hear from others. In service to the Dream, S ***** >>>-------------===) How to Construct SCA Arrows (===-------------<<< By Sionnaichan am Diolaimadh, Barony of Darkwater, Kingdom of Trimaris Revised and Assumed Accurate to 15 April, A.S. XXIV. However, please check with an authority on SCA arrows in your Kingdom as the making of arrows and the requirements for battle may differ between realms. The Author is always open to changes or suggestions; netmail him at 363/69 or contact him via the Barony of Darkwater, Box 1626, Orlando FL 32802 This Method is intended to give a working reference to individuals interested in producing list-legal arrows for bridge battles, archers' battles, crevass battles, or any confrontation where archers are called into play. The Arrows produced by this Method have been found to be the most reliable and stable Arrows, with nary a problem. Sionnaichan's first batch of thirty arrows showed only one unusable arrow after an afternoon's play, which was much less than other archers' differing styles. Items and Tools needed: Standard practise target arrows; strapping tape (the tape with the fibers in it); 1" wood dowel; duct tape (the more pliable type with the visible lines is preferred); closed-cell foam, used for plumbing insulation (size approximately 2" across); shears or a hacksaw; scissors that can be trashed for cutting tape. Procedure: 1. Get an arrow, or multiple arrows. This can be had at stores that sell archery equipment, stores that specialise in sports equipment (Sports Unlimited stores are good ones in Trimaris), et cetera. Make sure that the arrow is rated to the weight of your bow or greater; current maximum poundage for bows in Trimaris is 30# at 28 inches pull. 2. Lop the tip off the arrow (tin shears work well, or a hacksaw). The tip is unnecessary and potentially lethal; I would recommend disposing of it or (as suggested by a McFrugal friend of mine) make it into jewelry. 2a. *Extremely useful tip* Get some colored electrical tape in your personal colors or at random, and place two to four strips of tape evenly spaced near the fletching end. This effectively marks your arrow as yours, as the colors of the fletchings and the tapes are usually unique for your batch, and the tape strips themselves are protected by the strapping tape below. This works much better than magic marker or crayon. 3. Use strapping-tape to cover the shaft of the arrow from about 1/2" from the fletching (the feathers on the end the notch is) to about 4" from the cut end. It works best if you use a tape slightly wider than the arrow's circumference, and run it down the length of the arrow. Carefully align the top and bottom of the tape against the arrow, and wrap one side of the tape before the other. This makes for less, possibly zero, ridges in the tape. 4. Drill a 1" wide dowel about 1 1/2" long with a hole the size of the arrow's shaft, about 1" deep, and place this dowel on the cut end of the arrow. Take a length of strapping tape and go from the point where you stopped wrapping the shaft, around the dowel's "point" end, to the other side of the arrow where it meets the lengthwise tape. You can optionally do another one 90 degrees from that one, to secure it both ways. If the dowel doesn't line up with the arrow exactly, don't worry; you can use the strapping tape to adjust it to some degree. 5. Get some closed-cell foam as used to insulate plumbing, I believe the 1 7/8" size, and use a facsimile of the pattern below [Fig 5A] sized to your foam to cut the notches necessary to make it fit the best. Use strapping tape in an "X" pattern (extended to about the first inch of the foam "bullet") to make this bullet shaped on the side with the most notches, and leave the fletching end open to fit over the dowel. Take about 2/3 of the chunks left over from the notch-cutting and stuff them in the bullet-shaped end, for cushioning. I believe you need 1 1/2" to 2" of "thrusting tip" at the arrow's "point" when done. [Fig 5A] |\/~~~\/~~~\/~~~\/~~~\/| <-- "bullet" or "tip" end | | | | <-- this should be long enough to | Pattern | cover your arrow to the point | | where the strapping tape is. | | |/~~~\______/~~~\______| <-- end towards the fletching. 6. Place the packed foam "bullet" over the dowel, and fit it so that it is true to the line of the arrow. The dowel, as pointed out before, needs to be as well-aligned as possible. Use strapping tape to secure the foam "bullet" in the same style as used to hold the dowel in place; however, the foam "bullet" needs to be completely covered in strapping tape, to prevent broken parts from protruding. Wrap one way, then one at 90 degrees to that one, and then a third and fourth one at 45 degrees from those two to cover the tip completely. Make sure that the seam of the foam is covered by the center of one of the strips of strapping tape. 7. This step intentionally left blank. 8. Wrap a two-inch chunk of duct tape (the cheaper tape tends to be more smoothable, which allows for better aerodynamics) over the strapping-taped "bullet", in the same way that the dowel was covered. *Important fitting tip* Cutting notches in the tip end of the unsmoothed piece of duct tape allows you to form the duct tape to the arrow much more cleanly than by "chunking" it into place; notches at the four places where the tape bends 90 degrees are the best places. 8 cont. Wrap another piece of tape at 90 degrees to the above, using the same tip to make it fit the best. Your finished product should be an arrow covered with strapping tape from the fletching to under where the duct tape meets the shaft, thereby preventing any serious splintering from being exposed. There should be no serious wobbling of the tip when grasped firmly and moved around. You should now have a list-legal SCA arrow for your next war. If you find an arrow has been stepped on by an irate stickjock, keep the parts as just about everything can be used again, if you are careful in disassembling the broken arrow. My thanks to Lord Tempus of Trimaris for extremely useful tips, and for journeying to Darkwater to instruct the Barony on the finer points of combat archery and the construction of arrow. In service to the Dream (and to the purveyors of "feathered death" in all the Kingdoms), Sionnaichan am Diolaimadh mka Matt Drury Darkwater, Trimaris From: cat@fgssu1.sinet.slb.COM (CoreDumps`R'Us) Date: 25 Nov 91 00:41:24 GMT Organization: The Internet William Briandust (formerly Royal Archer in the West) and I took my combat archery legal 12th century reproduction cross-bow (made by Master Iolo, of course...) and my collection of Ansteorran legal cross-bow blunts (very much if not exactly the same as Markland blunts) out to the abandoned rail-road grade by our office (we work at the same place). We took William's flat heater and planted it on the embankment and shot at it. We measured the bounce-back of the blunts off the shield, and the average bounce back was nine feet (we be both geologist - we knowing how to measuring distance...). The bounce-backs were always nock-first. So, as far as the current policy in the West is concerned, that Markland style blunts do not require screen, I think it is wishful thinking. I used to be of the opinion that the Markland style blunts were ok, but after William showed me how they bounce back off of solid surfaces, I changed my mind. You will not catch me in the middle of a war without screen, regardless of whether the combat archers are using bird-blunts or Markland-style blunts. I do not relish the thought of getting a nock in my eye. To wit, I say unto you from my lofty six foot height (achieved by standing on the trusty mister soapbox), my opinion is that the current ruling in the West, i.e. that Markland blunts can be safely used without archery screen, is a bunch of crock. William said he was going to protest the new ruling, but I have no idea if he ever actually carried through with it. Oh, and before all of you start shotting arrows at Bill's little demonstration of bounce-back, we planted the shield at normal shield height, just in case you were wondering... Tux (who NEVER EVER is opinionated... ;-] From: c2p@stc06.ctd.ornl.GOV (PERKINS C C) Date: 25 Nov 91 21:25:55 GMT Organization: The Internet At the last Fighter's Collegium here in Meridies, the following archery-related decisions were made/announced: We will _not_ be abandoning the "Markland blunt" system in favor of the Calontir-style golftubes and tennis balls. As of the end of the Collegium, the golftube and tennisball javelin has been outlawed. As of the end of the Collegium, those stupid little throwing-axes ***1 must have their cutting edges marked with tape. New javelin designs are being sought and will be evaluated. The "15-foot-rule" for archers has been eliminated. The new rule is that archers are prohibited from firing while they are within "weapon's range." The "light-you're-dead" rule has been tentatively eliminated. We are now "evaluating" ***2 a "touch-kill" system. ***3 ***1) This is a strongly-held personal opinion. I have yet to see a throwing axe which is: A) legal in design; B) in use; and C) is capable of delivering a blow which would be noticed through typical armor. This makes them annoying to me. Sorry if that offends you, but that's how I feel. ***2) "Evaluation" means that at any Meridian event which features Combat Archery, either the new or the old system may be used, and of course, that the Kingdom Earl-Marshall and the Deputy Marshall for Archery are soliciting opinions. ***3) Charges of deliberate use of excessive force used against archers or their gear will be investigated with extreme seriousness, up to and including the mundane authorities. Archers are cautioned that if they get themselves tagged in a melee line, it's probably an accident, and they weren't supposed to be in weapon's range anyway. So, as of 8 November, here is the summary of CA rules for Meridies: Bows are 30# max at 28 inches draw, firing taped cedar shafts, tipped with wooden dowels and padding. Archers are required to wear basically full armor except for their arrow hand, which must at least have "a glove"... this need not even include fingers, by the current rules, btw. Heavies have no changes required to their armor (i.e., no mesh). Heavy archers have always been legal, though of course you're still an archer as long as you have *any* archery gear on you. Javelin designs are being evaluated. Archers may fire so long as they are outside of "weapon's range". We are *evaluating* a "touch-kill" rule. Comments: On safety: We have had no serious accidents with any CA system to date. On effectiveness: Comments are mixed, but people who use bows significantly under the max 30# limit tend to end up complaining that the mean old heavies won't take their shots. Everyone _hates_ having archery marshalls declare kills, except this group of archers. On fun: I love having archers in the battle, and plan to start popping up from behind people in bridge battles. I've done the "stand and wait for enough people to die to let me play" thing long enough. Bye for now. Jost. From: zebee@ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone) Date: 26 Nov 91 21:08:49 GMT Organization: Information Technology Division, The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA I suspect that in Lochac we do more combat archery than almost any other area. We run our own rules, separate from the West, with their blessing. Most people are light because they don't want to be heavies. They don't want to wear the armour, or they don't want to put that much physical effort into it, or heaps of other reasons. We require that each light has a crest on the helm, to make recognition easy. We also enforce the 5 metre rule, any anyone caught violating it is jumped on, whether heavy or light. We have had no incidences I can recall of lights being hit. We do have a section of the light armour standards which requires a light helm to be capable of withstanding a blow from a heavy. This is something I disagree with, brcause a light should never be within weapon range. If the light thinks: "My helmet can take it, I'll be OK even if I am too close" then that is asking for trouble. Besides, it makes the armour inspection too difficult. How is a marshal supposed to decide if the helm passes? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zebee Johnstone | Adelaide City Council | Motorcycles are like peanuts - zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au | who can stop at just one? Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: John, R., Edgerton Subject: Re: combat archery and the EK Keywords: Archery, combat, golftubes, marklands Organization: Systems'n'Software, Fremont, CA 94539-6669 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 15:48:10 PST One comparison can be made between woodshaft arrows and golftubes. In the Interkingdom Combat Archery Competition this year the only kingdom that used golftubes to shoot the competition placed dead last. All the other scores were shot with woodshaft arrows, both Markland style and 3/4 inch rubber blunts. The highest scores were made with the 3/4 inch blunts. The Middle had a score of 277.6 for first place. Caid had a score of 260 for second place. Both used 3/4 inch blunts with woodshafts. Ansteorra had 185.6 for fourth using Markland style blunts. Atlantia (birthplace of the golftube) had a score of 80.6 for seventh and last place. On the impact of combat blunts. The golftube slows down faster due its greater drag, therefore despite its greater weight its impact, at longer ranges, is greatly reduced as it slows down quickly. While the Markland and 3/4 inch blunts have less drag and maintain their velocity and impact longer. Also the large size and slow speed of the golftubes make them much easier to see and to dodge. If you are using golftubes at under ranges of twenty yards they would be just about as good as the Marklands and would hit harder, but at longer ranges the Marklands and 3/4 inch blunts are more efficient. In the West I have often picked off archers and heavies from ranges of fifty or more yards. And Wolf Peacemaker would often do it at over seventy yards. If there were more IKCAC scores using golftubes it would be very clear which is the better arrow. Those of you that support the golftube should see that the archers of your kingdom get together and shoot the IKCAC next year with golftubes and support your beliefs with action. Perhaps at some of next years upcoming interkingdom wars, a war point could be given for the IKCAC based on total score, this would encourage as many archers as possible to shoot. Perhaps Lord Blackarrow might arrange for such a shooting at Estrella X. It would also be fun to form two teams, one with golftubes and one with woodshaft arrows. Line them up facing each other at fifty yards and have them start shooting. Would anyone like to place a bet on who would win? There is no question that golftubes "work" and are "effective". The question is, are they anywhere near as effective as Marklands or 3/4 inch blunts? Even if an archer using golftubes made more than thirty kills at Estrella last year, how many more could he have made using more accurate arrows? Sir Jon Fitz-Rauf John R. Edgerton Kingdom of the West California Principality of the Mists Newark Shire of Esfen 7662 Wells Ave 94560-3530 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: John, R., Edgerton Subject: Combat Archery, Thistle Missile Keywords: archery, arrows, marklands, golftubes, thistle Organization: Systems'n'Software, Fremont, CA 94539-6669 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 18:47:14 PST Archer asked for information on Thistle Missiles. Contact: Arrowsmith Products, 2768 Elm. St., Sutter CA, 95982. Or call Stephen Mac Alpine at (916) 755-0242. Sir Jon Fitz-Rauf John R. Edgerton Esfenn, Mists, Wests ---- sirjon@waffle.sns.com (John, R., Edgerton) Systems'n'Software Free Public Access Internet BBS (510)623-8652 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Thistle missile warning!! From: trelaine@beacon.sci.org (Larry McCoy) Date: Tue, 30 May 95 22:49:02 PST Organization: Beacon BBS I also would like to see ANY factual reports regarding same. As an old-time fighter, and as a former archer, who started back when freon-can helms, hard plastic on the knees, was all that was required as heavy fighter., who also arched in my heavy gear.(including helm) I started arching using the old Saunders blunts, before any kind of tape was required on the shafts. I recall several incidents where shafts broke, and struck a fighter/and or light, but never do I remember any SERIOUS injury from same. (I myself was struck in an unprotected armpit by a broken shaft while at full draw). Any time, an archer uses the wooden shaft type arrow, I'd heartily suggest ordering the heavier shafts. ( 5/32" I thnk, it's been a while). I found that even a heavy trodding and fighting over spent arrows, unless the terrain was VERY uneven, seldom would crack one of my shafts. While the general archers would lose mass quantities of the standard shafts in short order. At the beginning of each war season, I'd order 3 dozen, and they'd last all year. losing only about a third to breakage. I'd also like to suggest that instead of using a single strand of reinforced tape to spirally wrap the shaft, that if you use 2 strands, (resulting in a slight overlap of tape) that it is next to impossible to break both strands and have a broken arrow separate into independant missles of possible injury. Just some thoughts from an old experienced occassionally one armed archer, who used to arch quite well with two feet and one arm. (Just ask His Grace Duke Frederick of Holland). In Service to Crown and Kingdom Master Sir Anluan Trelaine West/Mists/Wolfscairn From: james@nucleus.com (James Prescott) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Combat Archery Date: 17 Apr 1995 06:22:57 GMT Organization: Nucleus Information Service. Deane Geiken (dgeiken@uiuc.edu) wrote: : You mean you really simply use rabbit blunts on the end of regular arrow : shaft??!! Wow, now that may be some incentive to be a supporter of combat : archery. As I understand combat archery now, it does nothing to represent : real combat archery and the true effectiveness of the longbow when used in : mass numbers. Could you please elaborate in detail on the construction of : your arrows? The Kingdom of An Tir also uses the original 3/4 inch blunt style of combat archery. Our rules are probably similar to Lochac's. 1) A 3/4 inch blunt (can be constructed from component parts, but we also manufacture a one-piece polyurethane blunt, and I think Lochac does so also) with particular characteristics of softness (to prevent excess bruising) and toughness (to prevent shaft punch-through). 2) Ordinary wooden arrow with pile sawn off to get a flat wooden end. Max length 28 inches. 3) Cover shaft lengthways in tape (e.g. 7 mil PVC electrical or duct) between fletching and blunt. 4) If blunt will not stay on with a 10 pound pull, tape it onto the shaft. That's it. PLUSES: More authentic appearance and use. Can carry more arrows. Simple and (relatively) inexpensive. Accuracy and range are great. Less likely to snap than Marklands or Thistles. MINUSES: Some heavies don't use good mesh that is properly blackened, so they complain about visibility. No one up here doubts the effectiveness of our combat archery. All my best, Thorvald Grimsson/James Prescott (james@nucleus.com) Edited by Mark S. Harris c-archery-msg