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arrows-msg - 11/16/01

Period arrows, making arrows.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Date: 17 Nov 90 00:02:51 GMT

Organization: University of Chicago

"And by the way: helical fletches are period! Taxophilus (1500s)

refers to 'spiral' fletches. So there!" (Awilda)

By helical fletches do you mean what are sometimes called "flu-flus"

(sp?)--arrows designed to go a short distance than drop? Does

Taxophilus, or anyone else in period, provide pictures or a

sufficiently detailed description to tell if that is what he means?

The reason I ask is that there was a famous incident in the late 18th

century, involving a demonstration of Turkish archery by the

Secretary of the Turkish Legation in London to the Royal Toxophilite

Society. One element of the account is that he was using flu-flus as

practice arrows, and the English archers were astonished, having

apparently never seen such a thing. I had therefor assumed that they

were an Islamic invention that had not spread to the more backwards

parts of the world, and would be interested in the evidence to the

contrary. (Of course, if you mean something else by "helical

fletches," ...)

Cariadoc

From: sgj at slc1.brl.mil (S. Gwen Johnson)

Date: 20 Nov 90 21:49:22 GMT

Organization: Paladin.aberdeen.md.us

"Helical" is the modern term to describe fletches that curve slightly

around the shaft and impart spin to the arrow. Arrows can be made

with either left spin or right spin. The alternatives is fletches

that are parallel to the shaft. Some SCAdian archers I have met doubt

that helical fletches are period (they were used on the Mary Rose

arrows.) And Taxophilus records 'spiral' fletches, which is pretty

clearly to me at least the same thing we call helical fletches.

See the excellent article in Fletch and Point #3 "Arrows for the

Longbow" by Duke Sir Baudoin MacKenzie for more information on the

construction of different types of period arrows. Fletch and Point

can be had from the Rialto's own Dafydd ap Gwystl.

Awilda Halfdane

From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)

Date: 19 Nov 90 19:21:39 GMT

Organization: DECwest, Digital Equipment Corp., Bellevue WA

From article <1990Nov16.191942.2225 at slc1.brl.mil>, by sgj at slc1.brl.mil (S.

Gwen Johnson):

> In answer to Bart the Bewildered's question on cloth yard arrows, the

> Mary Rose arrows are 28 inches in length. Nowadays however arrows are

> sized to the archer.

The Mary Rose, being a naval vessel, carried military supplies. Military

supplies need to be standardized and folk who expect to use military

arrows, i.e. every yeoman, need to practice with them. I suspect that

custom arrows only became popular when archers ceased to expect to expend

arrows for the military.

I thank you for confirming the size of the clothyard. Now, can someone else

confirm the standard width of flemish cloth.

Fiacha

Autaterra, AnTir

TO: William Buehler

FROM: Dana Geraths

SUBJECT: Re: Arrows

If you were trying to find out how to tie period arrows I think

I could help. I have been an Archer in the S.C.A. for about a decade

and have done a few years of research on that subject. I will tell

you my secret.

First pick up the finest pine or cherrywood shafts that you

can. Pine is certainly easier to find but I am more pleased with the

cherrywood.

Then get some glue called "Fletch-tite", it is the best

fletching glue there is. Then pick up some feathers. White, black,

any natural color. I use trade mark white and my wife uses brown;

just make sure they are period colors, i.e. natural.

If you plan to make a dozen arrows you will need 3 dozen

feathers, if you plan to make a sheaf (24) then you will need 6

dozen and so on...

You do not need to pick up nocks, but can cut your own, after

all, plastic nocks are not exactly period. You will need tips. I use

feild tips as apossed to target tips only becuase they simulate a

killing tip and seem to fly much better. But I do not hunt with my

bow(by the way).

Now you will need some good thread. I use button thread. It is

strong but not to thick. Make it a natural color as well.

Now, carefully carve a notch at one end of the arrow with a

knife or dremel, make it just deep and wide enough to take your bow

string. Then glue the fletchings in a triangular pattern about one

inch below the end of the arrow. I am assuming you know the normal

pattern for the feathers, if not let me know and I will go deeper

into that.

Now wrap a small amount of the string around the shaft right

below bottom of the notch, just so it makes a small bead of wrapped

string about 1/16th of an inch wide at most. Then do the same at the

base of the fletchings. You will be tying the ends of the feathers

to the shaft. Make the bead of wrapping about the same width. Do the

same for the front of the feathers. Now you have three seprate wraps

of string on the shaft. One at the base of the notch, one on the

butt of the fletchings, and one at the head of them. Now string a

needle with some of the string and wiggle the needle under the bead

at the head of the feathers, then sprirally wrap the string up the

length of the feathers spacing the wraps at about a 1/2 an inch.

then wiggle the needle under the butt wrapping and pull carfully

tight. Remeber, when you spirally wrap the thread you must not tie

down the feathers flares but instead wiggle the thread inbetween the

feathers flares. Now wipe alittle fletch tight on all of the ties

to stragthen them. And there you go.... A perfect period arrow. They

take ALOT of time, but I think you love the results.

From an archer to another,

Conner MacFarlane, (Dana Geraths)

From: 00mjstum at bsu-ucs.uucp (Matthew J. Stum)

Date: 23 Jul 91 18:34:59 GMT

Lyle Gray writes in response to Michael Squires who writes in response to

Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks:

>>>One more point that bow weight doesn't make a great deal of difference for

>>>range: as I recall, a couple of years ago at Pennsic, Patri ibn Cariadoc was

>>>easily outshooting me on the clout field, using what appeared to be a

>>>25 pound bow. All a matter of knowing how to use the thing...

>>For the inexpert archer (me) the heavier the bow the more accurate I get, as

>>I don't have to compensate for the drop at long ranges. The arrow is also

>>less affected by wind.

> This all reminds me of something I read in Paine-Gallway's book on the

> Crossbow (I can't remember the exact title). He referred to a Turkish archer

> using a "flight arrow", an extremely light arrow [shot from a special bow?],

> intended for shooting at extreme range. Use of this arrow was apparently

> solely for contests at shooting arrows the greatest distance. He didn't

> mention anything about accuracy, however.

The Compleat Anachronist #? (the Longbow issue) has an article dealing with

"footed" arrows. Archers needed the 200 yd range to hit their enemy so a

very light shaft was needed. The only problem was that the lighter shaft

merely shattered upon impact with armor. The solution: "foot" the end (front)

of the arrow with hardwood... about 1/5 of the length. This would keep the

arrow fairly light but the business end was sufficiently solid to get the

job done. The process for footing an arrow is also discussed in the issue.

I'd _love_ to try it or have some made... I would image they are a sight

to see with two different grains (and would make nice "armor" piercing arrows

for deer hunting).

Mathew

Matt Stum VAX Systems Programmer

00MJSTUM at BSUVAX1.BITNET Ball State University, Muncie IN USA

00MJSTUM at bsu-ucs.bsu.edu

From: graydon at micor.ocunix.on.ca (Graydon Saunders)

Date: 26 Nov 91 20:31:34 GMT

Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.

Sorry to take so long about this, Matt... :]

I hate to tell you, but 'period' arrows aren't completely non-controversial,

because arrows didn't survive. Lots of arrowheads, but what happened with

the nocks and the fletches is not well known. (Unless the Mary Rose Report

has lots of good stuff in it - Uller's bracer, but I hope so.)

The general consensus is that arrow shafts were mostly hardwoods, ash by

preference but ash is probably too stiff for the bow you are shooting.

Of Ascham's list, birch is probably your best bet. (One of the woods is

'sugar cheste' - sugar had certainly been around for awhile at this point!

(Henry VIII)) Nocks were probably self nocks, cut right into the wood,

but the Robin Hood ballads mention 'silver nocks' for special arrows -

my guess is that this was a ring replacing the wrapping below the nock,

but who knows. Fletches were tied on because animal protien glues, while

plenty strong, are not at all waterproof, and having a light rain or good

Scots mist de-fletch all your arrows was extremely undesireable. My current

set of arrows are just tied on, no glue, and work fine. I'm not sure if

glue would have been generally used or not.

Exactly how to make barrel tapered shafts with hand tools is also a good

question; I'm hoping to try this soon, and any info would be greatly

appreciated.

Graydon

From: tip at lead.tmc.edu (Tom Perigrin)

Date: 27 Nov 91 18:42:47 GMT

Organization: A.I. Chem Lab, University of Arizona

My Dear Lord Graydon,

Thou hast inquired about how one might proceed to make a barrelled

shaft for an arrow... although my knowledge is not directly related to

arrowmaking, I would like to present an idea or two for thy examination.

The way a barrel stave is tapered is as such; First the stave is

split from a bulk by a froe, and split such that the square of it is

as the greatest part of thy stave. Then the workman rouch hews it with a

bradeax until it approaches the shape desired. He then takes his stave unto

his plane, which is a cunning device indeed. It is often over 5' in length,

and rests with one end upon the ground, and has two legs to support the

other end. Thus, the edge is uppermost, and the shavings can cascade

through the throat and downwards. He places his feet astride this plane,

and holding the stave at the right angle taught unto him by experience,

he quickly runs it along the plan efrom wide to narrow, which is as he

must, for the other direction would catch the grain and tear it.

But I fear me that this method is not correct for thy wishes.

The shaft of an arrow is too small and whippy, and I have fears for thy

fingers as thou woulds't whip it by thy razor sharp plane blade.

I know that in the main smaller work such as tines and prods for

spindles and chair rungs, are shaped upon the horse. The horse has a bench,

of one foot and one span in width, and equal in lenth to a mans hieght.

The plank has four goodly legs to support it. Upon this plank, thereis

another plank which arises from the end, and comes towards the center some

2 or 3 feet, and rises a foot or more. This is called the table. The

bench and the table are bother peirced by a mortase, through which a

another timber doth pass. This timber is pivoted unpon the bench, and

has upon it's lower end a place to push with ones feet... the upper end

has a tooth, or a pin through it, or any number of arrangements to catch

the work. This part is named the head or the dumbhead.

The way the horse is used is this; one sits upon the bench facing

the table. Because of thy height, thou canst peer the length of the

table, and it points at thy chest. Thou laiest thy work upon the table,

next to the dumbhead, and then by pressing the pedal away with thy feet,

the head pivots forward and captures the work to the table. Thou art now able

to take a draw knife or a shave, and to plane thy work towards thyself.

To turn thy work is but the work of a trice... thou dost but barely

move thy feet, spin thy work, and press to again.

The horse is quick and simple, and can easily work such small things

as an arrow shaft. However, when 'er I teach a prentice how to use the horse,

I always insist that they wear a wooden bib... and the reason is this:

I keep my drawknives as sharp as I can make them, and when the prentice

sits upon the bench and pulls the knive towards him, he is pulling a foot

wide peice of razor sharp steel towards his breasts, with nothing but

grace to stop it. My bib is precisely that... a square of wood about

8 inches upon the side, with two holes for a cord to go around ones neck,

and a small depression the center so that one may capture wok theirein in

work closely unto it. The number of nicks and cuts impress the wisdom

of using it upon the prentices... and they are most faithful in using it.

If My Lord hast never used a draw knife, I woulds't be happy to

scribe a missive about that as well. I have now used them for over 10 years,

and built many shafts and spokes and spindles, and have learned some of the

tricks therein. It may seem a clumsy tool, but ifaith, it is a cunning tool

when used to all extent! But it yeilds it secrets slowly... I carved

more than 20 spokes of good white oak before I learned but the simplest

differences between the 5 major cuts, and I would happily pass this onto

thee.

I am in your Lordship's service, and remain,

Thy Obedient Servant

Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus

Macsen ap Rhys of Wyvernhall

Matheus Arcuarius MKA Matt Stum

Re: Period arrow building question.

1 Dec 91

> I have not found any period references as to the bonding of

> fletches/feathers to arrow shafts. In _The_Prince_of_Thieves_ they showed

> them being tied on

Although I have no refernces at hand, I am told by David McDougalls, Captain-Geneal of Archers for the East, (and noted for his period arrows) that, although tied on while the glue dried, the wrapping threads were not left on the arrows. The leading end of the fletch might have some thread wrapped around it for reinforcemnt, but the spiral wrap is just for construction.

From: doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Golf tube arrows, an Aten version, possibly a repost ?

Date: 19 May 93 00:28:50

Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture

Sorry if this went out before : one preson who was actively

looking for it did not get it, and no one commented on it,

so I don't think it got out the first time.

Golf Tube arrows, an Atenveldt version

This is the design most Twin Moonies used for Estrella IX. These golf-tube

arrows fly straight, have good range, resist being crushed under foot, and

the design was aproved by the Aten Knight Marshal.

Hopefully I won't be tried and executed for revealing the secrets

of these highly-effective weapons to the enemies of Atenveldt.

Oh, wait : there's no war today, so we don't have any right now. :-)

The basic design is mainly the work of Baron Blackarrow, Captain of Archers

of the Kingdom of Atenveldt. The construction techniques detailed as

"option B" my wife and I developed to speed-up the 6 dozen or so arrows

we made for the war.

Using the mechanized methods we've developed, my wife and I working

together can turn out a dozen arrows in about 3 hours.

==============================================================

Materials needed :

Tennis Ball (used, $0.25)

Golf Tube (new $0.65)

Thick Styrofoam (lots) (we found some 3" thick stuff on the road.

I think it was rigid foam house insulation.)

1/2" Closed Cell Foam (SCA standard item)

1" Strapping tape (another SCA standard item)

Black Electrical Tape (ditto)

Duct Tape as desired (ditto)

36" of 3/4" Sched. 40 PVC Pipe, or a broom handle.

Preparation:

Below is described on a per-arrow basis.

(Options B is a faster, power-assisted version of Options A)

1. Prepare Tennis Ball

option A: Trace outline of reinforced end of golf tube onto the

tennis ball. Cut just inside outline with a sharp razor

knife (be careful! Tennis balls are tough and resilant!).

option B: Find a hole-saw just a little smaller than the outside

diameter of the reinforced end of the golf tube. Chuck

it into a drill and use it to drill a hole in the

tennis ball. BE CAREFUL: wear a leather glove on the

hand holding the tennis ball. Work on a surface you

don't care much about.

2. Prepare Styrofoam Cores (many):

Option A: get a thin metal tube about the same diameter as

thin golf tube. I've used the "tailpipe" from a sink.

File teeth into one end of it (like a hole saw).

Use it to "core" the styrofoam, twisting it into the

styrofoam until it's all the way thru, then pop

the core out. You'll need about twice the length in

cores as the length of the arrow. You'll also need

arms like Popeye to do a dozen arrows worth this way.

Option B: make a "corer" as above. Drill two 3/8" holes

on opposite sides, about an inch away from the teeth.

Duct-tape the tube onto the outside of the chuck of

a low-speed 1/2" drill. Drill thru the foam : have

a peice of metal beneath the foam to prevent damage

to whatever is under it. Then take a flat-blade

screwdriver, stick it in whichever of the two holes

in the side you get to first, and lever the foam out

of the pipe. Be careful not to hit the drill trigger

while you are popping out cores.

3. Prepare Closed Cell Foam:

Cut a circle of foam about 1/2" larger in diameter

than the golf tube. Cut a second circle of foam

about the diameter of the tennis ball.

Assembly:

1. Assemble the Tennis Ball Arrow Head

Push the smaller foam circle into the tennis ball thru

the hole. Tape it to the inside of the front of the ball

with a little strapping tape. Stuff the larger circle of

foam into the tennis ball, making sure it is evenly scrunched

around the inside of the tennis ball.

2. Prepare the Golf Tube Shaft

Put two peices of strapping tape crossed across the reinforced

end of the golf tube. Put another peice of strapping tape around

the tube right behind the reinforcing ring, to hold the

first two peices on. Put a styrofoam core in