pets-msg - 12/25/19
Pets at SCA events. Training them for events.
NOTE: See also the files: cats-msg, dogs-msg, ferrets-msg, rabbits-msg, livestock-msg, fishing-msg, falconry-msg, mice-msg.
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: animals/pets
From: Eric.Smith-1 at kmail.ksc.nasa.gov (Eric C. Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 15:48:32 -0400
Organization: NASA/KSC, DL-ICD-C
hendricp at norand.com (Peter Hendrickson) wrote:
> For the sake of my own curiosity i am taking an informal
> poll concerning animals/pets at SCA CAMPING events.
>
> your comments are greatly appreciated.
>
> GUTHORM SCYLDING
> (Peter Hendrickson)
> hendricp at norand.com
> P.S. I do bring my animals (dogs & children) to all camping events
> in wich I participate.
In Trimaris, we have no camping sites which allow pets. A few years back,
Kingdom Law was changed to specifically ban pets from all events, but that
law only lasted for the duration of that reign. I would love to take my
dog (the cutest little sheltie you'll ever see!) to events, but alas, they
won’t let me.
Maredudd
--
Eric C. Smith Maredudd Cymysglyd ap Cynan
NASA/DL-ICD-C Kingdom of Trimaris
KSC, FL 32899 Shire Starhaven
Eric.Smith-1 at ksc.nasa.gov maredudd at caer_bondu.surf.tach.net
From: mhwag at aol.com (MHWag)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: animals/pets
Date: 14 Jun 1995 10:22:40 -0400
Many of the sites in Atlantia allow pets, which then must be controlled
(leashes, collars, etc.). One lady, who has recently moved out of Kingdom,
has a greyhound, which adds considerably to atmosphere. The greyhound
went visiting one night at a large camping event, and "deer sightings"
were rampant the next day.
Aileen
From: Ann.J.Welborne.2 at nd.edu (Anna Welborne)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: animals/pets(long)
Date: 16 Jun 1995 14:04:46 GMT
Organization: Notre Dame University
Since I lurk on the newsgroup, I seem to have missed the original post
concerning animals.. I wish to commend the good gentle, Guthorm Scylding,
for what appears to be exemplary animal husbandry. Only one thing more I
would have wished to seen emphasized, and that is his vigilance in cleaning
up after his dogs. Unstated, but done nonetheless, I'm sure. And in
further support, a responsible dog owner will *not* approach another dog
from the rear, especially if holding the leash of another dog. The mundane
who did so was being stupid, IMO. The responsible thing to do would have
been to cross over the path, several feet away, in order to prevent the
very altercation that took place. Use some common sense, folks.
This may seem to be a non sequitur, but it needs to be said often and
loudly:
If you see a dog with a backpack or harness on, accompanying someone in a
wheelchair (or someone who is blind, or deaf or whatever), DON'T PET THE
DOG. Lady Lizette and her beloved, trusty Hoosier will be at Pennsic, but
DON'T PET THE DOG. Hoosier is a *working* dog, and not to be petted, fed
treats, or even talked to by anyone other than Lizette when he is "on
duty."
As one avidly interested in promoting animal husbandry in the SCA,
especially that of dogs, I would refer one and all to the forthcoming
October (?) Pale, in which there will be an extensive article written by
the members of the Huntly pack - those wonderful gentles, led by Master
Beowulf Gordon, who, with HRM Valtheona's queenly blessings and
participation, provide greyhound coursing demonstrations. For those who
saw them at the Mid's Coronation, I'm the lady with the little red basenji
(small cousin of the greyhounds) who coursed so eagerly and so well.
I do agree that the dogs add marvelously to the medieval flavor of an
event. Especially the sighthounds, since sighthounds were so prevalent in
the middle ages. Pigs, chickens, and various other animals running loose
would also be very medieval. However, let's be reasonable and responsible.
From my side, the dogs give me something to do, since my lord husband is a
chirugeon, I'm bored by fighting (sorry, guys!), can only do so much
shopping, and have not the patience for needlework. Having my Pali at my
side allows me to meet and talk with all sorts of people. Working with the
greyhounds, specifically, allows me to promote greyhound rescue. In all
cases, the SCA is to promote education.
Working with the dogs at an event is *work*, in that one must be constantly
vigilant. Vigilant against the untaught, over-trusting children who race
up behind a dog and grab at it. Vigilant against the untaught, should know
better adults who would slip my dog chocolate behind my back. (Chocolate is
POISON to a dog!) Vigilant to see that my dog does not relieve himself in
an inappropriate place, or if he does, to *immediately* clean up the mess.
And so, in answer to the one gentle's question of whether pets should be
allowed at camping events, my vote is yes. It's a selfish vote, but having
my dog along makes the event *much* more enjoyable for me. However, just
like with drinking, there will be irresponsible people who make it
difficult for the rest of us to present a good image. There will also be
those, who because of allergies, may protest the presence of animals. For
that same reason, I could protest the presence of lighted cigarettes, but I
wouldn't dream of banning the smokers themselves (especially since those in
the Huntly Pack smoke!).
The bottom line, like all the bottom lines in our never-ending banter of
rules and whatnot, is COMMON SENSE and RESPONSIBILITY. Yes, dogs should be
allowed at events, but only if the owner is practicing common sense and has
a strong sense of responsibility. If a fighter is acting irresponsibly
with his weapons, if a gentle is drinking irresponsibly, if whoever is
acting irresponsibly, then the autocrat should intervene.
Responsibly yours,
Amaran MacConnachie
dwelling in White Waters Shire
(but Rivenstar is home!)
Midrealm
*********************************************************************
Anna Welborne Press on, mi amigo! Press on, mon amie!
welborne.2 at nd.edu Walk on in the face of the mystery.
Notre Dame University When the night hides the light,
Philosophy Department And the journey is long, <B Sprague>
Notre Dame, IN 46556 Tie your shoes, my dear friend. Walk on.
*************** Sighthounds ---- Addicted to Speed! *******************
From: noramunro at aol.com (Noramunro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: animals/pets(long)
Date: 16 Jun 1995 20:50:19 -0400
There's not a whole lot I can add to this discussion, but I do want to
commend all the responsible dog owners of the SCA that have posted so far,
and make a plea: don't give up. I try to take my dogs as many places as
I can, always leashed, always obedience trained, and always with a supply
of plastic baggies (the long ones that newspapers are sometimes wrapped in
are really good) stuffed in my pocket or belt-pouch for cleanup. If all
the people out there like me continue to do this, we can at least hold our
ground, if not gain some. I'd especially like to recommend the American
Kennel Club's Canine Good Citizen certificate program (to dogowners in the
US, anyway), which is open to both purebreds and mixed breeds, and, I
think, could probably save many of us from problems in the future. The
testing is based on a combination of AKC obedience and temperment testing.
Passing dogs receive a certificate, good for brags, and also potentially
as evidence for the dog's good temperment and behaviour in altercations.
It's not total proof of course, but it could give a dog owner an edge. If
anyone out there would like more information on the program, please
contact me in email, and I'll pass along what contacts I have.
In service to the Society and the noblest of beasts
Alianora Munro
Barony of Bright Hills, Atlantia
email: noramunro at aol.com
From: sclark at blues.epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: animals/pets(long)
Date: 22 Jun 1995 16:12:43 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS
Greetings!
I've considered from time to time taking one of my herd of
cats to an event, but have always nixed it. Why?
--pets (particularly) cats are like young kids--you have to
have someone keep an eye on them at all times.
--cats (unlike some dogs) are not particularly happy most of
the time to simply sit tied to a post for hours at a time.
--fleas. My guys are indoor cats.
--At events, I am seldom not doing something. If I could really
go to an event and not be fencing/pewter casting/running some
activity/shopping/heralding, I might consider bringing along
a cat. But only if I think the cat might enjoy the event ...:-)
By the way, I've seen a wide variety of pets at events, from dogs
(usually the big friendly kind), cats, rats, birds, snakes, and ferrets to my
favorite, a brown bat. (She had a little batbox around her neck for it.
Looked like a cute mouse with wings.) The majority of folks with pets,
like the majority of people with kids, are responsible--but one bad incident
leaves a lot of memories.
Cheers!
Nicolaa/Susan
(and Napoleon, Caellin, Cyrano, and Orlando)
Canton of Eoforwic
sclark at epas.utoronto.ca
From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: animals/pets(long)
Date: 22 Jun 1995 18:28:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Susan Carroll-Clark <sclark at blues.epas.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> I've considered from time to time taking one of my herd of
>cats to an event, but have always nixed it. Why?
> --pets (particularly) cats are like young kids--you have to
> have someone keep an eye on them at all times.
> --cats (unlike some dogs) are not particularly happy most of
> the time to simply sit tied to a post for hours at a time.
> --fleas. My guys are indoor cats.
> --At events, I am seldom not doing something. If I could really
> go to an event and not be fencing/pewter casting/running some
> activity/shopping/heralding, I might consider bringing along
> a cat. But only if I think the cat might enjoy the event ...:-)
All these are good reasons for not taking to an event any of the
cats you currently have.
We have three cats. Only one goes to events. Gwenhwyfar, our
tourney cat, was trained from adolescence to be a tourney cat. We
put her in her harness a lot and got her used to it. We took her
in the car a lot, so she doesn't (like many pets) associate a
ride in the car with a trip to the vet. We got her used to
riding in her cat carrier. Most of these things we did by taking
her to fighter practice every Thursday evening, where she also
got used to loud noises and crowds of people, many of whom kept
coming up and crooning "Oh, let me pet the kitty...."
As a result, she's very gregarious and will sit there and let
people take their kitty-fix off her for hours on end. If we're
in one part of the camp and she's in another, she'll meow
plaintively till we come where she is or bring her where we are.
But if we're not in camp at all, she'll go into our pavilion and
go to sleep on (or in) our bed.
She's an indoor/outdoor cat so there are fleas anyway. We did
take her to one site where it was announced that there was plague
in the area, so we had to flea-bathe her as soon as we got home.
Otherwise, nobody seems to mind.
And one of these days I'm gonna write a song about the time she
was out wandering about camp on her 15-foot leash, around 5 a.m.,
and somebody's Shar Pei decided to tangle with her. (The dog was
scratched and bitten. I was scratched and bitten when I tried to
mix in. There wasn't a mark on the cat.)
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
PRO DEO ET REGE
From: mordraut at bga.com (Mordraut Freyulf)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: animals/pets
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 07:55:48
Organization: Dark Horde Moritu
(DEREK BROUGHTON) writes:
(snip)
>I agree with Guthorm. The problem, Hal, is that this _can't_ be
>just discrimination in favor of competence. The only way to
>qualify for this discrimination is to know someone. There can be
>hundreds of people with dogs who might qualify to attend a
>'no-pets' event, but unless they're personally known to the
>autocrats they won't be permitted to attend with their pets.
>Unless the 'petocrat' is willing to interview and certify every
>owner & pet, there should be no exceptions - either pets are
>allowed (Yea!) or not (grudgingly accepted).
There is a way to allow only dogs with good manners. The AKC sponsors a
Canine Good Citizenship (CGC) test. It is open to all dogs even mixed
breeds. Your dog doesn't have to have AKC papers. The dog and owner are
tested on 10 things. Some are: walking on a leash, sit/stay, allowing
a stranger to shake hands with the owner, and the dog must remain calm while
the owner is out of sight for 5 minutes.
This is not an easy test for most dogs to pass. It can be taken
again if the dog fails. When the dog passes it gets CGC added after its
name. It takes commitement from a responsible owner to get their dog to pass
the CGC. A responsible owner is also more likely to pick up behind their
dog and not let the dog annoy others. This is an objective way for autocrats
to screen which dogs are allowed at events.
I know there are some sites where the site rules prohibit dogs, but
there are just as many sites where the autocrat doesn't want to be bothered.
I really think the Canine Good Citizenship test is a fair way to discriminate
in favor of competent dog owners.
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Margaret | IF YOU'RE NOT HAVING FUN |
| Mirrim of Bristol | YOU'RE NOT DOING IT RIGHT! |
| mordraut at moritu.com | |
|------------------------- Finger For PGP Public Key ---------------------|
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: hopkins at hopkins.rtp.dg.com (Edward Hopkins)
Subject: Animal-crat?
Summary: Great concept; not so great name.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 14:34:37 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation. RTP, NC.
Coryn llith Rheged (derek.broughton at onlinesys.com)wrote:
>ritchiek at expert.cc.purdue.edu (karen ritchie) wrote:
>
>KR> .... In the Middle Any event that has horses present must
>KR>have an equestrian marshal on site as well, Perhaps all groups having
>KR>any type of animals should consider an Animal-crat-Isabeau P.
>
>Not a bad idea. I hereby volunteer to be animal-crat for any
>event that wants one in southern Ealdormere.
I think it's a great idea, and I hope that it's a _new_ enough
idea that it's not too late to change the name before it gets
entrenched. Here are some suggestions:
"Hostler" Scrictly speaking, this is someone who cares for
horses, but it might be obscure enough to bend to
our will (like "seneschal")
"Menagier" Someone in charge of a menagerie.
"Beastmaster" It's direct, but it might cause PR problems.
"Zoocrat" Just in case the "-crat" ending _is_ mandatory.
-- Alfredo
hopkins at dg-rtp.dg.com
From: IVANOR at delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Animal-crat?
Date: 2 Jul 1995 16:53:21 GMT
Quoting hopkins from a message in rec.org.sca
> "Hostler" Scrictly speaking, this is someone who cares for
> horses, but it might be obscure enough to bend to
> our will (like "seneschal")
> "Menagier" Someone in charge of a menagerie.
I always thought a menagier was in charge of a menage. i.e. a housekeeper.
Carolyn Boselli, Host of Custom Forum 35: SCAdians on Delphi
Ive Annor M'Quhairr of Sighty Crag, Chronicler-elect, Dragonship Haven
All right.... who siphoned the blood out of my cat?
From: vorder at tigger.stcloud.msus.edu (Andrew Vorder Bruegge)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: dogs
Date: 3 Jul 1995 19:03:47 GMT
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Dog owners and dog lovers must also consider factors besides the behavior of dogs. First, mnay people have horrendous allergies to dog (and cats, and ferrets, and all the other animals in the menagerie). I myself do not suffer from allergies, but I must respect others.
Also, at outdoor camping events, dogs and other animals could possible generate hygiene problems--manure, raiding garbage cans, etc. Of course, YOUR dog would NEVER do that. Oh well.
Leave the dog at home
Isaac
From: corun at access2.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: dogs
Date: 3 Jul 1995 18:12:53 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Alianora posting form Corun's account.
Andrew Vorder Bruegge <vorder at tigger.stcloud.msus.edu> wrote:
>Dog owners and dog lovers must also consider factors besides the behavior
>of dogs. First, mnay people have horrendous allergies to dog (and cats,
>and ferrets, and all the other animals in the menagerie). I myself do
>not suffer from allergies, but I must respect others.
>Also, at outdoor camping events, dogs and other animals could possible
>generate hygiene problems--manure, raiding garbage cans, etc. Of course,
>YOUR dog would NEVER do that. Oh well.
I must take issue with two of these points. First, while I understand and
respect the problems of those with allergies to animal dander (I suffer from
hay fever, myself, though I have never asked people to refrain from bringing
flowers to events), I fail to see how bringing my dog to an outdoor camping
event will discomfort those allergic to dogs. The great thing about the great
outdoors is the amount of ventilation available. Any dander shed by my dog
is going to be quite thoroughly dispersed, i.e. reduced in concentration to
a level that should NOT cause problems to the allergic, unless they come
and bury their faces in my dog's fur.
Part of responsible dog ownership involves preventing hygeine problems.
A responsible dog owner travelling anywhere with a pet will clean up after
the animal and will have the dog leashed and with them at all times
(including the middle of the night), which will keep the animal out of
the garbage cans. People who bring their dogs to events and don't keep
their pets under control and their messes cleaned up are not responsible
dog owners.
My biggest beef (look out, here comes the soapbox) with anti-dog rules is
that they discriminate against responsible dog owners without actually
preventing the damage done by irresponsible ones. I may leave my dog at
home, but that doesn't prevent someone else - like a neighbor to the site -
from letting his animal run loose and become a problem (spreading dander,
leaving manure, raiding the garbage cans, or worse, biting someone). I've
put a great deal of time and effort into making my dogs well-behaved, clean,
and well-dressed (see my article in last summer's _TI_) members of my
local group. Telling me to leave my dogs at home doesn't solve the
problem of irresponsible dog owners, it only discourages me from coming
to events at all. And that, I think, is not the kind of effect no-dog
rules are intended to produce - I hope not, anyway.
<climbing back off the soapbox>
In service to the Society and the noblest of beasts,
Lady Alianora Munro
Barony of Bright Hills, Atlantia
===============================================================================
Corun MacAnndra |
Dark Horde by birth | vivivi - the editor of the Beast
Moritu by choice |
From: kmhankey at cis.ysu.edu (Katherine Hankey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Necessities for Pets at Events
Date: 11 Jul 1995 03:56:13 GMT
Organization: Youngstown State University--Computer and Information Sciences
Greetings to Alison, and all others.
My lord and I have on occasion taken our two dogs to Cooper's Lake
during non-Pennsic times, both SCA and mundane. From that experience,
I'd say that your list, with Alianora's suggestion of water from home,
looks pretty good. (You might consider a 12" garden shovel to help
with the plastic bag part.) Since this is your first event with your dog,
I thought I'd share a few ideas beyond the simple listmaking.
The shade cloth is a good idea. If you find that you must leave her
for more than a "brief" time, make sure that she has plenty of access
to shade as the sun changes the shadows. Also, try to discreetly see
how she behaves while you're away; if she yips or wimpers constantly,
your neighbors will not be fond of her (or you).
My dogs tend to eat maybe half their normal portion when they're camping.
Yours might also have an appetite change, which could go either way. If
she doesn't eat much, don't leave her food out for the flies, especially
if it's canned food. Offer it to her occasionally, and if she doesn't
want it, store it appropriately - after all, it's *food*. If she wants
more than usual, it may be because she's burning a lot of it off with the
excitement; but have extra plastic bags around.
Water is probably the single most important thing. Site water *may*
easily disrupt her digestive system, but it's better than dehydration.
In camp, I usually don't keep the water bowl *filled*, as it attracts
insects. While my dogs don't mind drinking around the bugs, I'd rather
just refill the bowl more frequently. But the main point is, keep the
bowl not-empty.
And while you're wandering about with her on the leash, water is still
very important. Be sure to give her frequent opportunities to drink,
even if it's site water. If she's panting but won't drink, try offering
her water in your cupped hand, sometimes that helps a lot. And if she's
really hot, consider dousing her with water to help cool her. (Approved
by my vet, with the caveat to not overdo it.) My dogs don't like the
dousing part, but they respond noticably to the cooling.
My apologies if this sounds long-winded, but you did say this was her
first event, and I'd like it to be pleasant for both of you *and*
everyone else you encounter. I hope this helps.
Tarna of Warhaven
From: noramunro at aol.com (Noramunro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Necessities for Pets at Events
Date: 10 Jul 1995 19:52:57 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
In addition to all the things you named, I'd include a couple of gallons
of water from home (old plastic milk jugs work well). I've found dogs to
be even more sensitive to changes in water than people, and sometimes
sites don't have a potable water supply.
Good luck!
--Lady Alianora Munro
Barony of Bright Hills, Atlantia
From: AIGRAN00 at ukcc.uky.edu (Hurricane Alison)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Necessities for Pets at Events
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 95 14:38:03 EDT
Organization: The University of Kentucky
Good gentles,
Having read the threads about pets at events, I now find myself in the position
of having to take my dog with me to Border Raids because her "grandmother"
will also be out of town and cannot babysit. I've never taken a pet to an
event before and would like some feedback on the proper things to bring.
I'm taking (for my pet) one pet carrier and a piece of cloth to shade her
during the day for the brief times I can't keep her on a leash, food bowl,
water bowl, food, leash, squeaky toy, and little plastic bags for when nature
calls. Any other things that would be useful? Things you've found to be
indespensible? This is her first event, but she is well behaved, so I'm
hoping for the best.
Alison of Windy Fields, Shire of Dragonsmark
From: Catherine A Hensley <hensley at lims1.lanl.gov>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Necessities for Pets at Events
Date: 12 Jul 1995 22:42:42 GMT
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
AIGRAN00 at ukcc.uky.edu (Hurricane Alison) wrote:
> I'm taking (for my pet) one pet carrier and a piece of cloth to shade her
> during the day for the brief times I can't keep her on a leash, food bowl,
> water bowl, food, leash, squeaky toy, and little plastic bags for when nature
> calls. Any other things that would be useful? Things you've found to be
> indespensible? This is her first event, but she is well behaved, so I'm
> hoping for the best.
Hmmm. How about flea/tick powder? In many temperate regions of the
known world, you should be concerned about deer ticks, which spread
Lyme disease. In the Desert Southwest (Outlands, Atenveldt, Ansteora)
you MUST be concerned about the fleas that carry Plague. Yup, good
old-fashioned Bubonic (pneumonic/septicemic) Plague. I think there
have been about five cases of plague in domestic animals around my
home town this year (mostly cats, as they go out and catch the mice
that harbor the fleas...), and maybe one human. Humans can catch it
from their pets, either by flea transmission or when the pet's plague
progresses into the airborn pneumonic form. But fortunately plague
is treatable by modern miracle medicine (tetracycline). Most victims
live.
I know of one Outlander who is a plague survivor. <g> When we do the
Middle Ages, we do it authentic!
Aithne
From: heddl at sequoia.northcoast.com (Shifter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Necessities for Pets at Events
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 18:16:03 -0700
Catherine A Hensley <hensley at lims1.lanl.gov> wrote:
> AIGRAN00 at ukcc.uky.edu (Hurricane Alison) wrote:
> > I'm taking (for my pet) one pet carrier and a piece of cloth to shade her
> > during the day for the brief times I can't keep her on a leash, food bowl,
> > water bowl, food, leash, squeaky toy, and little plastic bags for when
nature
> > calls. Any other things that would be useful? Things you've found to be
> > indespensible? This is her first event, but she is well behaved, so I'm
> > hoping for the best.
Stuff I routinely bring to keep my hounds comfortable at events:
Kibble
Water from home (allow 2 liters/day/dog)
Cedar pet bed (helps repel insects)
Blanket to cover when it gets cold at night
Vari-Kennel (so it's not period, but it's a safe containment of my dog
when I can't take them with me everywhere on site)
Shade tarp
Plastic bags for faeces
Immodium in case of diarrhea
Bach's Rescue Remedy in case of stress
First Aid kit (for all living critters -- human and canine -- in my camp)
Hope this helps,
Rakiizah bint Nubbal al-Saluqi
From: sjaqua at ix.netcom.com (Scott Jaqua )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: YKYITSCAW...
Date: 10 Oct 1995 23:36:06 GMT
holsten at nature.berkeley.edu (Donna Holsten) writes:
>You're at an event with your two dogs--the Rott and the Schipperke, and
>someone asks what kind of dog the "little black one" is. You start into
>the usual "They're Dutch dogs that go back as far as the 16th Century;
>someone wrote about a pair of them saving Duke So-and-So..."
>
>And then the questioner cuts you off with "Don't you think that documenting
>your *dogs* is a BIT MUCH!?"
>
>Joanna (and Calvin, and Eleanora)
Nope, I document my pets. My Curly-Coated Retrievers, Brittanys,
and yellow naped amazon parrot are documentable. My Labrador
Retrievers, albino corn snake, and Jersey wooley rabbit are not. Heck,
I even document and make period dog collars! There's even a dog collar
museum at Leeds castle in England. Yup, I've got the book. (Is
obsessive compulsion spelled with a hyphen?)
Allesaundra de Crosthwaite
Mrs. Scott Jaqua
From: Larkin O'Kane <larkin at webstar.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: What *isn't* wrong with children--what's wrong with YOU?
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:48:49 -0500
Organization: Shire of Trelac, Ansteorra
John Groseclose wrote:
> Bingo. And what happens to my dogs, who have been carefully tied to a
> stake near my tent, where they can't even get near the borders of my
> encampment? Some child wanders into camp, starts teasing them or trying to
> pet them when they don't know who this person is, and gets bitten.
Not that this has anything to do with the discussion (it doesn't) but I find that a portable pen works well for my dogs. It's an eight foot square metal fence that gives my four dogs some freedom to move around and thus away from small ones who want to "pet the doggies."
> Does the child get yelled at? No. The child gets picked up and comforted,
> while the dogs are taken to the local animal control for quarantine.
>
> (Note: This has not happened to ME. Not yet, anyway.)
>
> What's wrong with this picture?
Nothing, if the question is the survival of a child or the survival of my dogs. I will (reluctantly) choose the child. In some cases I would be VERY reluctant.
--
"I would prefer even to fail with | Larkin O'Kane, Trelac, Ansteorra
honor than win by cheating." | larkin at webstar.net
SOPHOCLES, Philoctetes (409 B.C), | Charlie Lawrence Cain
tr. David Green | San Angelo, TX
Subject: Re: ANST - animals
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 00:51:12 MST
From: "margiejr" <margiejr at sprintmail.com>
To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>
<snipage>
>Let me add another problem.
>
>4. unsocialized animals.
>
>IMO, an animal brought to an event needs to be properly socialized to
>large groups of people BEFORE the event. I have seen (dogs mainly here)
>who have obviously never been exposed to so much activity and strange
>people thrust right in the middle of a crowd during the list. I've
>overheard owners mention "this is Spike's trial run, we don't know if he
>can handle all this". And I've seen dogs snap, growl, and lunge at
>strangers. All at events. Unfortunately, even leashed animals can bite
>when over agitated.
I found a solution to geting dogs used to the noise and excitment of an
event is taking them to fighter practice were they can be around people and
hear the diffrent noises, see there owners interacting with strangers and to
let the animal get used to being petted by the stangers in funny cloths. My
chrystal has turned out very loveable and freindly towards SCA folks. she
is freindly with those in garb, those who come into my house, officers and
normaly only barks when there is a problem and she loves it when children
play with her.
While we’re on the subject of pets and events. if a site is NO PET please make
sure it is in the anouncement for the event, I get real mad when I take my
animal to an event and get there after driving several hours to be informed
that they are not allowed, when nowere in the anouncement was it ever
mentioned NO pets. please rember that some of us that like to take our
animals with us may not live in your area so if it;s not in the flyier we
may not know about it. I learned my lesson and nowe call ahead but it is
still a pet peave. I also get iritated when I can't take her because she is
a trained emergancy dog for me should I be camping and get hurt she is
trained to find help for me because of my back, but because it’s my back
and not my eyes I’m told I can't have her with me even though she is a
trained Assist dog..it's just one of my pet peaves..I'm rambling so I'm gonna
shut up now
Simone
Subject: Re: ANST - animals
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 08:46:34 MST
From: "Lori Campbell" <LCAMPBEL at ossm.edu>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
> if a site is NO PET please make
> sure it is in the anouncement for the event, I get real mad when I take my
> animal to an event and get there after driving several hours to be informed
> that they are not allowed, when nowhere in the anouncement was it ever
> mentioned NO pets.
> Simone
The problem with this is that many autocrats, especially those
working on large events, are concentrating on fitting all the
*required* elements into their event announcements. If they don't
have pets themselves, they may not even think about the possibility
of people bringing pets to an event - much less remember to
mention it in the add.
I have lots of friends that have pets and they like to bring them to
events. My solution is, if you want to bring your animal to an event
and the add doesn't mention anything about pets - pick up the phone
and call the autocrat listed in the BlackStar. They will be able to
tell you whether or not your pet would be welcome. They might even
be more amenable to making special arrangements for assistance
animals if given some time to make necessary arrangements in
advance.
This type of forethought and planning could really save the day,
especially if you are traveling long distances and can't just
run your animal back home.
Kat
Barony of Wiesenfeuer, Ansteorra
*******************
Lori Campbell
lcampbel at ossm.edu
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:36:13 EDT
From: <LrdRas at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Hunting dogs
jyeates at realtime.net writes:
<< how many realize that the rottweiller (a personal favorite breed ... >>
A source for beginning basic info on the history of dogs (and other pets) is:
The Illustrated Dog- 'Animals in Art' by Tom Howard. 1994. Chartwell Books,
Inc. ISBN 0-7858-0178-2
and
The First Pet History of the World by David Comfort. 1994. Simon and
Schuster. ISBN 0-671-89102-2
Both of these books are very basic but they contain pictures, quotes, and
references to period sources which provide a good starting place for further
research.
Ras
Subject: Re: ANST - question: hound decontamination
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:25:00 MST
From: Charlene Charette <charlene at flash.net>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
Chris Harper wrote:
> >... anyone got good options for decontaminating a
> >reeking hound ???? (thinking to the day when he finds another deer carcass to
> >roll around in ...)
> >
> >'wolf
>
> I have always heard that washing in tomato juice would remove a skunks smell
> off of anything, so I am guessing if that is so, maybe it would work on the
> kind of odors you are dealing with. Hope this helps.
Been there, tried that. Several bottles. Tomato juice didn't work. There are
several products at the pet store that should work. I used one called something
like "skunk off."
--Perronnelle
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 15:50:10 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jacqueline Lee via Atlantia <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
To: "atlantia at atlantia.sca.org" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: [MR] Pets at the War
War of the Wings is nearly upon us and a number of folks will be bringing their favorite furry friends with them. Now everyone loves their animals and no one wants to admit that their particular fur baby is not the most sociable creature on the planet, but unfortunately this can be the case.
Animals have personalities too, not every pet is a "party animal" who has never met a stranger, some are shy, some are wary, and some are just extremely proprietary regarding "their" people and always ready to go on the defensive. These aren't "bad" pets, they just need to be approached and treated with a little more care than some others might require. The question is, how to let passers by, children, and friendly adults know immediately that this pet is one that should be approached by strangers carefully or not at all.
I saw something on Facebook not too long ago, which some animal lovers are trying to get going in the modern world and I think it might work very well in our world as well.
If you have a pet which might panic, become aggressive, scratch, nip, or bite, attach a large, visible, yellow bow to its collar, harness, lead or cage; then do all you can to spread the word that yellow, just as in a traffic light, means caution.
Educate your children in this, educate yourself and your fellow animal lovers. It doesn't mean that this is a "bad" animal, just one that might not instantly be friendly. It is a simple, inexpensive way to let people know that here you need to take a little bit more care.
No one wants to be involved in a "biting" incident. It is bad for the victim, bad for the owner, and bad for the animal. If a skein of yellow ribbons prevents even one such occurrence it will be well worth the minimal expense and trouble. I hope everyone has a good safe War this year.
Megara di Alessandra
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:23:48 -0400
From: Kelly Keck via Atlantia <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
To: Jacqueline Lee <lilithquestor at yahoo.com>
Cc: "atlantia at atlantia.sca.org" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [MR] Pets at the War
This is a really good suggestion, Megara! I've heard about the yellow
ribbon project in dog groups, and I think it's a good idea. I would add a couple things to it. First, I feel really strongly that the default should be to *not* touch, talk to, or otherwise approach an animal you aren't familiar with without asking the owner (and graciously taking "no" for an answer), yellow ribbon or no.
Secondly, if you think your dog would react defensively if someone (say, a small child) *does* run up and pat them on the head, it's a really good idea to proactively acclimate them to a muzzle and have them wear it in public. For that matter, if your dog is going to be miserable in a crowd of people, a big event like WoW is probably not the best place for them.
The yellow ribbon is a good idea, especially if it has useful text (e.g., "Shy dog, please ask before petting"), but a dog owner shouldn't assume that everyone's familiar with it, or let the safety of themselves, their dog, or the people around them depend on people recognizing and respecting it. I think a yellow ribbon is great for "my dog will be uncomfortable if you approach him" but not at all sufficient for "if you try to touch her, my dog will take your fingers off."
Lady Adriana Michaels
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 13:04:59 -0400
From: Cindy Jenkins via Atlantia <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
To: Jacqueline Lee <lilithquestor at yahoo.com>
Cc: "atlantia at atlantia.sca.org" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [MR] Pets at the War
As Kingdom Chirurgeon, I highly recommend that SHOULD you bring your furry kids, to bring their updated Rabies vaccine records. For if an accident were to happen and a member of the populous were to be bitten, local law authorities will need to be contacted and proof of the vaccine will be requested. This will prevent the possible quarantine of your beloved pet.
With nearly 1000 people on site, not all animals, as much as we think we know them, will react differently. Just food for thought from your
friendly neighborhood Kingdom Chirurgeon
Baroness Elizabeth of Rosewood, KC
From the FB "Dogs in the SCA" group:
Kevin Gage
I think the yellow ribbons, or something similar are a good idea.
Service dogs need to marked in some way that identifies they are certified service dogs. If not a vest, a collar, or some other such item. In an honorable society, this should not be necessary, but unfortunately it seems to be becoming so. Many events either do not allow dogs, or have restrictions concerning them. This is especially true of the big wars. However, since service dogs are allowed, I am seeing more and more instances of "declared service dogs". This is my term for dogs that have not been certified by any agency or organization as a service dog, but have been declared such by the owner to circumvent the event rules. They are usually described as a "companion animal." Now, if someone has an actual medical need of a companion dog, I have no problem at all with it, but there should be some method certifying that it is such a dog.
As I stated before, in an honorable society, this should not be necessary, but apparently to some the definition of honor only applies to certain situations, and doesn't necessarily apply if it creates what they consider an inconvenience , or means adhering to rules they don't like, like leaving little fluffy at home.
As an example, I went to a small event once (between 75-100) attendees) The site had a no pets rule ( the owner, not SCA). Yes, it was advertised beforehand, and posted at troll. There were at least fifteen dogs there of all breeds and sizes. Not a single one of them were marked in anyway as a service dog. I made a few inquires. There was a lot of hemming and hawing, but everyone that I talked to maintained theirs were service dogs, when it was fairly obvious they were not. Buuttttt, since they had been declared "service dogs" they had to be allowed in to the event. As a side note, several of these "service dog" owners ignored even the most basic "look after your dog" protocols, if you know what I mean.
As a side, side note, I have also seen this sort of thing happen outside the SCA, at restaurants, malls, and the like.
Ceridwen An Equus
There is no such thing as a "certified" service dog. Federal Law (the ADA) does not recognize ANY certifications, registries, etc. Establishments may legally ask two questions (Is this a service dog to mitigate your disabilities? and What tasks does it perform?) To be considered a service dog the animal must be house broken, under the handlers control at all times (tethered or otherwise) and be task trained (providing comfort is not a task, that would be an ESA which has no public access rights). Further more, for an individual to utilize a SD they must have a disability (or multiple as many of us do) that limits life activities.
While fakers are a very large problem the other half of the issue is businesses not knowing their rights. If a SD (faker OR legitimate) is not under control and the handler does not correct it, they can be told to remove the SD and enforce it. If the canine is not housebroken (sudden onset illness not withstanding) they can be told to remove the SD and enforce it. Unfortunately businesses have become gun shy because they do not want to end up on the news because someone brought their ill behaved pet into a restaurant or store and it peed on the floor, snapped at people and sniffed merchandise, but they claim Fifi is a SD, yet the business does not ask what tasks the animal performs to make it such.
Gordon Carol Lofland
Yellow Dog Project
https://www.facebook.com/TheYellowDogProject
<the end>