mice-msg - 10/6/18

Medieval mice, dormice. Medieval thoughts about mice.

NOTE: See also the files: pets-msg, Pest-Control-art, ferrets-msg, dogs-msg,  cats-msg, livestock-msg, bees-msg, rabbits-msg.

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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: powers at woodstock.cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Attitude on mice in Renaissance Europe
Date: 12 Jan 1997 12:36:22 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science

BlackCat (blackcat at blueneptune.com) wrote:
: Here's a wierd one:
: The attitude in various countries during the Renaissance to mice?

Its not the Renaissance; but you might check in "Le Menagier de Paris"
written from 1392-1394 and dealing in what a good housewife should know.

The excerpt I read had instructions on how to kill fleas, flies and mosquitoes
There is a good chance that mice would be dealt with too and perhaps some
discussions of their depredations and how they were viewed.

The Medici Aesop  contains a story "The Boar and the Mouse" which gives
some thoughts on how they were viewed. BTW this is a rather sobering little
tale for people with a rosey view of chilvary....


I would check some of the other texts like Tusser's poem on husbandry
and other sets of fables: One will indicate how they are viewed in
"reality" vs their "symbolic" representation.

wilelm the smith


From: UDSD007 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike.Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Attitude on mice in Renaissance Europe
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:02
Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA)

In article <32D7C2F0.3513 at SpiritOne.com>,
Aleq <aleq at SpiritOne.com> writes:

>   ...                    Didn't the Romans eat dormice and such?

But mice and dormice are different sorts of critters.
--
Mike.Andrews at dsibm.okladot.state.ok.us
Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews)  Namron, Ansteorra


From: mmaxwell at whsun1.whoi.edu (Michael Maxwell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Attitude on mice in Renaissance Europe
Date: 13 Jan 1997 17:39:37 GMT
Organization: Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

BlackCat (blackcat at blueneptune.com) wrote:
: Here's a wierd one:
: The attitude in various countries during the Renaissance to mice?

Not exactly Renaissance, but here goes.  Gerald of Wales regarded them as
pests.  In his "History and topography of Ireland" (written c. 1185), Gerald
says that mice are numerous in Ireland, and consume crops and garments.  He
notes Bede's comment that Ireland has two harmful beasts:  wolves and foxes
(though this latter might be bears, I don't remember exactly).  Gerald adds
mice to this list.

Mike


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at spdcc.com (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Attitude on mice in Renaissance Europe
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:35:03 GMT

Katherine Penney  <katex at teleport.com> wrote:

>I have a broadside ballad extolling the rat catcher which dates from
>circa 1620.

The Pied Piper of Hamelin was piping for mice and rats.  It wasn't
until the town council cheated him of his pay that he switched to
children.  How old is that story?

Rats and mice are real problems for any society that depends on stored
food, particularly grain, to make it through the winter.  I'd think it
highly unlikely that anyone would view such vermin fondly.
-- 
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR  shafer at ursa-major.spdcc.com
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html


From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Attitude on mice in Renaissance Europe
Date: 17 Jan 1997 01:10:41 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo, NY  14208

Mike.Andrews wrote:
: > But mice and dormice are different sorts of critters.
 
Adellind le Quintain
: Dormice aren't rodents, then?  What are they?

According to my dictionary, "a small squirrel-like mammal"

                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat     : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Internet    : salley at cs.canisius.edu  (Please use this, reply may not work.)
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, NY 14212-2029


From: osmansks at emh1.pa.net (Mary Frey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Attitude on mice in Renaissance Europe
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:14:17 GMT

salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) wrote:
>According to my dictionary, "a small squirrel-like mammal"

>                                                       - Dagonell

According to my Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, a dormouse is an Old
World [European] rodent whose appearance and behavior are similar to a
squirrel's.

     Mary of Monetvale


From: vidumavi at swipnet.se (Ninni M Pettersson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Attitude on mice in Renaissance Europe
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:55:24 +0100

Dormice belong to the family Gliridae that only exist in Europe,
sub-Saharan Africa, Central Asia and Japan, and mice and rats to the
subfamily Murinae (Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia), that is part of
the *big* family Muridiae (all over the world), which includes most of
the ratlike rodents -  mice and rats, New World mice and rats, hamsters,
gerbils etc (more than 1000 species). The main differences between
dormice and most of the others are that dormice hibernate in winter (in
temperate climates) and are mainly tree-living.

/Widumawi
-- 
Writing from the Principality of Nordmark in the Kingdom of Drachenwald
vidumavi at swipnet.se


Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:49:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: SC - Mice

<< I also find that a sharp cheddar can be used for 1/3 to
 1/2 of the cheese and improve the final result. YMMV; 
 I've been accused of being descended from mice... >>

When raising dormice for consumption do not feed them cheese. Their natural
foods are grains and insects (preferrably locusts (e.g. grasshoppers). When
properly fed dormice will in every case totally ignore the cheese if it is
offered. Cheese (or, indeed any dairy product) is not a natural food for
dormice under any circumstances.

FYI, 
Lord Ras


Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 00:04:02 -0400
From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] French Great Hamsters

I was always fascinated by the entry for the Hamster in Hildegard von
Bingen's Physica. She arranges her chapters by size, starting with the
largest of the category of animal she is addressing and going down.
She had the hamster listed between the squirrel and the marten. The
description stated that hamsters were fierce, like bears, and that
their fur made good clothing.

I cannot remember what she said about eating them.
--
Serena da Riva

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:
There must be recipes for these but I can't say I've ever seen any.
The European Union's highest court ruled Thursday that France could be fined
up to $24.6 million for its treatment of, wait for it, a hamster.

The Court of Justice in Luxembourg says that France has failed to adequately
protect the great hamster of Alsace, the New York Times reports.

It can grow to 10 inches.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/10/world/europe/10hamsters.html?_r=2
http://tinyurl.com/69tp9xg

Johnnae


Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:25:26 +0100 (BST)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Hildegard on Hamsters

<< I was always fascinated by the entry for the Hamster in Hildegard von 
Bingen's Physica. She arranges her chapters by size, starting with the largest 
of the category of animal she is addressing and going down. >>

What do you mean by "chapter" and what by "category of animal"?

The text is organized in "books" (i.e. something like main chapters), 
each book/main chapter contains sections/secondary chapters on different plants, 
animals etc.

The Lion (book 7, chapter 3) preceeds the horse (book 7, chapter 8). 

<< The description stated that hamsters were fierce, like bears, and that their 
fur made good clothing.  I cannot remember what she said about eating them. >>

No culinary uses are mentioned.

The liver of the hamster in a pulverized form is suggested to be eaten on bread 
or in a broth for certain skin diseases. This indication is compared to eating 
the flesh of mole for the same diseases.

The distinction between "(regular) food" and eating something for medical 
purposes is mentioned explicitly in the chapter on mole (book 7, chapter 37).

E.

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	mice-msg	Page 2 of 5