ferrets-msg - 7/6/01
Ferrets in the SCA and the Middle Ages.
NOTE: See also the files: pets-msg, hunting-msg, mice-msg, rabbits-msg, cats-msg, dogs-msg, bestiaries-msg, p-thts-animls-msg, Ferret-Basket-art, Ferrets-Hunt-art, Ferets-Genets-art.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PA142548 at utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Ferrets was : Re: canine
Organization: University of Tennessee
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 13:09:29 GMT
The reminds me of an elderly ferret I met at Silver Hammer one year. He was
friendly. But inert. I never saw such a weary beast. I sat down by the
fire in the great hall and was told, "Don't step on my ferret, you lummox!"
"Sorry, I didn't see him."
"He's a white ferret on a black cloak. How could you miss him?"
"I though he was fur trim."
(I really did. He was a nice animal. But very tired all the time.)
T. Archer
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
E-Mail to PA142548 at utkvm1.utk.edu, mail to ARCHER at that address will
bounce. "Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: sari at alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Sari Ellen Stiles)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: ferret groups/from ferret newsletter
Date: 27 May 1994 14:54:34 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, U of Wis - Milwaukee
(whole discussion of ferret health, and what the heck a group of ferrets is
called snipped... as only this segment was pertaining to period... and
immensely amusing.
The 'proper term' for a group of ferrets is given in a number of
fifteenth-century manuscripts, with various spellings, in true
medieval style:
a Besynys of fferettys
a Besynes of ferettis
a Besynesse of ferettes
a besynes of ferettes
a Besenes of Ferret
a Besenes of Firets
The editor Hodgkin remarks: 'The characteristic attribute of a
ferret. Those who have been out ferreting with grasp this
reference to the animal's businesslike and methodical manner of
attending to its work'.
The form 'fesnyng' etc. is based on a misreading by a 19th-century
scholar, who read one of these manuscripts as 'a fesynes of ferrets'
(although I rather like the idea it suggests of 'a fuzziness of
ferrets').
In Middle English, the word means literally 'busy-ness'.
On the general subject of medieval lore, the thirteenth-century
encyclopedia *De proprietatibus rerum* offers the following useful
advice for ferret owners (here in a modernised version of a 14th-
century English translation):
'Wormwood...helpeth against bytynge of weseles and of dragouns'.
Bear it in mind the next time your carpet shark comes in for
the kill...
Jeffrey L. Singman
Middle English Dictionary (University of Michigan)
From: caradoc at enet.net (John Groseclose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scots and cooking (was Re: looking for love in wrong places)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 18:32:10 -0700
Organization: Who? Me? Organized?
In article <3ct3rq$h3e at usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, fp458 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Elise A. Fleming) wrote:
>Well, now, could _I_ pick on a Scots _man_?? Rearrange his kilt,
>remove a piece of lint, stare enraptured as he serenades me on
>his mellifluous pipes? Sigh-h-h. (As she shrugs, turns away,
>and plods down the path alone.)
That would depend entirely on HOW you were going to rearrange his kilt. <grin>
It would also depend on how his lady felt about you rearranging his kilt.
My lady's got quite a prejudice about that sort of thing, but I like it
that way.
It's a far cry from the days I wandered Merchant's Row alone and in my
kilt. Some lady ALWAYS had a ferret that wanted to go exploring. Three
different ladies, three different wars, and three different ferrets. I
can't explain it.
--
John Groseclose <caradoc at enet.net> WWW site: HTTP://ias.west.asu.edu/
From: jheinen at mcl.ucsb.edu (Jeff Heinen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ferrets?
Date: 2 Feb 1997 17:19:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara
In article <01bc1108$12242320$d988aec7 at mike>, "Mike Davies"
<mdavies at sprynet.com> wrote:
> I know that ferrets have been domesticated before cats and dogs... The
> egyptians had them as pets about 500 years before cats. My question is ,
> considering their use as hunting animals for small game, are our ferrets
> considered period if we bring them to events?If we follow the same rules as
> dogs + ( leashes, and cage) Can anyone see a problem with this , period
> wise?
Just don't bring them to California. They are illegal here and they could
get confiscated by the authorities. There is a myth here that ferrets are
a major cause of rabies and other ills.
-Gottfried
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| Jeff Heinen | "Neccessitas non habet legem." |
| jheinen at mcl.ucsb.edu | -St. Augustine |
| http://www.calpoly.edu/~jheinen| |
|================================+==================================|
| Department of History | Senior Consultant |
| University of California | Microcomputer Lab |
| Santa Barbara | UCSB |
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Duane Brocious)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ferrets?
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:00:10
Organization: CAC
In article <jheinen-0202970919460001 at d-38.home-ip.as.ucsb.edu> jheinen at mcl.ucsb.edu (Jeff Heinen) writes:
>Just don't bring them to California. They are illegal here and they could
>get confiscated by the authorities. There is a myth here that ferrets are
>a major cause of rabies and other ills.
Check all Laws _anywhere_ you take the furries. Many states and cities have
laws against them and restricting them. We haven't had any problems with ours
at events that allow pets (in PA)but check things out in advance. Many people
are quite clueless about ferrets and as ferret owners we try to show people
how sweet and friendly they are and eliminate the myths about them. My
favorite is killing the myth that they stink, I have people sniff their tails;
they smell like sandalwood incense. A well groomed and neutered ferret smells
better than alot of dogs (esp. wet ones).
Ferret (3 of them counting me )
From: jheinen at mcl.ucsb.edu (Jeff Heinen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ferrets?
Date: 3 Feb 1997 04:12:12 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara
In article <19970202225400.RAA20943 at ladder01.news.aol.com>,
brosatyr at aol.com (BroSatyr) wrote:
Ferrets
> have not yet been considered domesticated, as they must still be kept in
> cages. They have not yet developed the loyalty gene as have cats and dogs.
Well, I've owned three ferrets and all of them were allowed free-reign of
the house and also allowed outside. Never lost one. They used the
cat-box just like a cat and tended to follow me around the house.
-Jeff
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| Jeff Heinen | "Neccessitas non habet legem." |
| jheinen at mcl.ucsb.edu | -St. Augustine |
| http://www.calpoly.edu/~jheinen| |
|================================+==================================|
| Department of History | Senior Consultant |
| University of California | Microcomputer Lab |
| Santa Barbara | UCSB |
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
From: Katherine Penney <katex at teleport.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ferrets?
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 13:34:40 -0800
Mike Davies wrote:
>
> I know that ferrets have been domesticated before cats and dogs... The
> egyptians had them as pets about 500 years before cats. My question is ,
> considering their use as hunting animals for small game, are our ferrets
> We will be joining the SCA in a few weeks, but we would really miss the
> carpet sharks on the weekends.
>
> Mike and Jen Davies ( and Priss and Bear )
Ferrets were "domesticated" work animals in urban areas in England
during the 16th century...Rat Catchers (and, if I'm not mistaken, the
broadside ballad "The Rat Catcher" talks about his ferrets) would send
them under houses to combat the rats...from what I've read, the ferrets
were very much liked by their owner. Also, I believe I have a painting
of a woman with a ferret...I'll check.
Cats, however, were not considered "pets" in the way they are today...an
interesting tidbit: Catfur coats were worn in period!!!
Constance
P.S. Don't turn on your dryer when the ferret is in it.
From: Sue Hallock <kendra at ziplink.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ferrets?
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:35:42 -0500
Katherine Penney wrote:
> Also, I believe I have a painting
> of a woman with a ferret...I'll check.
Yes there is..it's quite famous and I remember the name but not the
artist. It is a period painting and it's called "Lady with a Ferret"
(pretty original huh?)
Ferrets are wonderful pets but don't expect them to behave like cats or
dogs -- they are thier own critter. If you do take them to events,
especially in hot weather, make sure that they have plenty of water and
also shade -- ferrets do not tolerate heat very well. In the summer, I
used to spritz mine with a spray bottle and they loved it!
Also if a lot of people handle your ferret (not recommended unless the
ferret in question is very gentle) give the ferret time out at events --
otherwise it could get overwhelmed and irritable. Also do keep the
ferret on a leash. Ferrets can disappear very very easily into any small
hole or pile of garb, or because they're low to the ground could be
stepped on.
And do check the site rules and the state laws. For a long time ferrets
were illegal in Massachussets but the state finally came to their senses
and legalized the wicked, wonderful weasels!
In the East Kingdom we once had the honor of having a ferret-owning King
and Queen and they made ferrets a protected animal for their reign!
Good luck,
--Kendra of Hollyoake
From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Duane Brocious)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ferrets?
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:42:25
Organization: CAC
In article <5d7ejo$nkc at panix2.panix.com> dpeters at panix.com (D. Peters) writes:
>In article <32F6926E.3AA6 at ziplink.net>,
>>Also, I believe I have a painting
>>> of a woman with a ferret...I'll check.
>Leonardo Da Vinci.
Some art books refer to it as Lady with _ermine_, although it is the wrong
size and color for an ermine.
Ferret
From: "Eric & Lissa McCollum" <ericmc at primenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ferrets?
Date: 4 Feb 1997 13:15:03 -0700
Duane Brocious <dnb105 at psu.edu> wrote in article
<dnb105.148.02BB4E37 at psu.edu>...
> In article <5d7ejo$nkc at panix2.panix.com> dpeters at panix.com (D. Peters)
writes:
>
> >In article <32F6926E.3AA6 at ziplink.net>,
> >>Also, I believe I have a painting
> >>> of a woman with a ferret...I'll check.
>
> >Leonardo Da Vinci.
>
> Some art books refer to it as Lady with _ermine_, although it is the wrong
> size and color for an ermine.
>
> Ferret
Check out
http://watt.emf.net/wm/paint/auth/vinci/ermine.jpg
for a view of the painting in question.
Gwendolen Wold
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lmm at netcom.com (Lisa Mesplay)
Subject: Re: ferrets? [LONG]
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 07:35:23 GMT
Good gentles,
Whoa up for a moment. I'm purely a lurker, but this thread has raised
two issues that must be addressed in an ongoing effort to combat
misinformation about the domestic ferret. Indeed, even now an
organization of ferret-lovers in California, people whose ownership
of a curious, playful, intelligent, animal has made them criminals,
is fighting a desperate battle for the right to enjoy their pets in the
green grass under the azure sky.
Note that I do not mean to attack or belittle the people who are basically
innocently propagating the information. In the interests of education, then,
I beg your indulgence of my lengthy post.
Mike Davies (mdavies at sprynet.com) wrote:
: I know that ferrets have been domesticated before cats and dogs... The
: egyptians had them as pets about 500 years before cats. My question is ,
Sorry, no. There is absolutely no evidence for this pronouncement.
There are no records. There are no remains. It surely *sounds* great,
though, doesn't it? Some people still use this as a well-intentioned
argument to establish our pets a little more firmly in the hierarchy of
domesticated animals. Oh yes, the pet ferret *is* domesticated. Just
not by the Egyptians. This would seem to be somewhat obvious if for no
other reason than the fuzzies do not tolerate heat at all well, and Egypt
is located in a pretty warm part of the world. I once had some in-depth
information on the Egypt question, but my hard drive ate it. :( One
reason you will see this misinformation printed in several of the early
books on the pet ferret is simply that books tended to be based on the
ones that were published before. Alas, such are the perils of cutting
corners while doing research for a book.
: considering their use as hunting animals for small game, are our ferrets
: considered period if we bring them to events?If we follow the same rules as
This is another issue entirely. I'm including some information from Bob
Church, mainstay on the Ferret Mailing List, researcher extraordinaire,
and general wag. The short form is, "Yeah, ferrets are 'period.'"
*************************************************************************
Q: You have written about the history of the ferret. I am a member of a
creative anacronism society; what can you tell me about the introduction of
the ferret into Britain?
A: A lot, but I'm not going to because I'm a (med) evil person. he he.
To begin with, there are 3 avenues of investigation into the history of an
animal. 1) Archaeological/paleontological research, 2) Historical
documents, and 3) biological aspects. In the investigation of the ferret,
only the last 2 have been used to any degree, and because of the limited
nature of the attempts, they are inadequate.
Archaeologically, I know of no published accounts for ferret remains, except
of a fairly recent nature (also suffering from a lack of distinquishable
criteria to separate the ferret from the polecat). So I would postulate
that the archaeological evidence is the worst of the three; in fact, it
doesn't come close to matching the historic written record.
Biologically, the polecat and the ferret are almost identical, especially in
the post-cranial skeleton. Since no one has extensively studied the two, no
criteria have been established to differentiate them. In other words, you
can't tell if the bones are ferret or polecat. Also, the history of the
polecat in Britain is marred by the same problems faced by ferrets; lack of
precise data. BUt an increasing amount of data are being generated in
genetitics, natural history, etc., to show that the ferret is probably the
descendent of the European polecat, although the possiblity of its being
descended from the steppe polecat cannot be eliminated.
Historically, the earliest records of ferrets date to the 1200's, when their
use to hunt rabbits are mentioned. This occurs fairly close in time to the
introduction of the rabbit, about a century before. Are the two events
correlated? Probably, but without biological or paleontological/
archaeological evidence, the inference is suppositional.
Many people have noted the Roman dependence of ferreting and rabbits, and
have suggested they introduced the ferret in the British isles, but those
suggestions are marred by the complete lack of published evidence. Even
worse is the assumption that rabbits and ferrets were introduced in new
areas together; there is no proof of that. BUT, in the absence of any
archaeological remains of ferrets, you could look at rabbit remains, and say
"ferrets are usually common rabbit hunters, therefore it is logical to say
that where one is found, so will be the other, _so_long_as_it_is_
_understood_ thatthe relationship is at best a nominal one. With that in
mind, consider these dates and take artistic licence...
Rabbits in Menorca 1400-1300BC Ferrets mentioned in Greek plays 450-425 BC
Rabbits in Mediterranean and Africa [by Phoenicans/Romans] 400-300 BC
Ferrets mentioned by Aristotle 350 BC Rabbits in Corsica 204 BC Ferrets
mentioned by Strabo AD 63 Ferrets mentioed by Pliny AD 79 Rabbits on
Balearic Islands/Ferrets to hunt rabbits AD 230 Rabbits in Italy AD 230
Domesticated rabbits in France AD 500-1000 Ferrets mentioned by Isidore of
Seville AD 600 Rabbits in Germany about AD 1123 Rabbits in British islands
AD 1135-1279 Ferrets and Genghis Khan [no primary reference] AD 1221 Ferrets
in England Ad 1223 Rabbits in British mainland AD 1235 Ferrets in Germany by
AD 1245 English ferreter attached to court AD 1281 Ferrets in Queen MAry's
Psalter AD 1340 Ferrets regulated in England AD 1390 Ferrets used for
ferreting in France [Gaston de Foix] AD 1387 Ferrets in poem "The Siege of
Thebes" by John of Lydgate AD 1421 Domesticated Rabbits in Germany AD 1423
Ferrets described by Gesner (Zurich) AD 1551
This is the best and most accurate dates and places. Of cource, they are
wrong; if a ferret is mentioned at 1390, it just follows that it was there
earlier; it was just the first published or surviving reference. One more
thing; the rabbit part of the list is both historical and archaeological;
