turbans-msg - 6/10/04

Medieval turbans. Wrapping turbans.

NOTE: See also the files: headgear-msg, cl-Moorish-msg, Moors-msg, 
ME-dance-msg, ME-feasts-msg, crusades-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Date: 5 Nov 91 18:51:01 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago

            To Tie a Turban

"I've often wondered how one constructs a turban!  Could you please
give us a  brief explanation?" (Simon of the Beautiful Waters)

The following is lifted from my article on Islamic clothing in the CA
pamphlet on things Islamic:

Kuhnel lists several pieces of cloth tentatively identified as pieces
of turbans from 12th century Egypt; typical widths are from 35 to 48
cms. There is also one possible turban from later (Egypt 13th-15th
centuries) that is 70 cm wide. I accordingly make my turbans about
20" wide.

He also shows a picture (reproduced as Figure 2) of a piece of cloth
believed to be a turban end from 12th century Egypt. It is made from
blue dyed linen. The bands labelled a are red-brown, salmon yellow,

yellow and light green, with black outlines; he does not say which
parts are which colors. The bands labelled b are black and yellow.
The middle section is in yellow linen on blue, and consists of
repetitions of the Arabic RHelp from God.S

I have no precise information on the length of turbans. At various
times, non-Muslims were restricted to maximum turban lengths ranging
from five to ten ells, which suggests that Muslims would at least
sometimes wear turbans longer than that. If one interprets the ell as
the English ell of 45 inches (Mayer, my source on this, does not say
what ell he means), ten ells would be twelve and a half yards. I find
that a length of about fifteen yards works well. Mayer describes the
restrictions as a response to increases in turban length. Since he is
describing a period later than my persona, it is possible that my
turban should be somewhat shorter, but since I have no precise
information for my exact period it is hard to be sure.

Other than this, my only basis for the way I tie my turban is what
worksQthat is to say, what produces a result that looks like period
pictures, such as those in Arab Painting. I generally use a piece of
light cotton 15 yards long by about 20 inches wide, although I
occasionally use twice that width to get a very bulky turban. Before
starting to wind the turban I put on a turban capQa plain skullcap of
heavy cloth. Its function is to keep hair from getting wrapped into
the turban and to make sure that no hair shows through; while not
essential, it is useful.

I start with one end of the turban about six inches below the base of
my neck; this is going to be the tail which one sees on some period
turbans. The turban passes from there over my head to just above the
forehead and then starts being wound. A single wind is a circle
(clockwise seen from above) tilted somewhat from the horizontal. As I
wind the turban, the circle precesses; the low point moves around my
head by about 90! each wind. So if the first time around the low
point is under my right ear then the next time it is at the back of
my head, then left ear, then ... (this is very approximate). As you
go, you can let the tilt increase, since the bottom of the circle
will anchor itself below the bulge of cloth already there. When you
are down to the last two yards or so, make a horizontal circle around
the whole thing and tuck the end in. The result is the horizontal
band that one often sees on period pictures.

I am afraid this is not a very good description. Tieing a turban is
easier shown than described. Practice when nobody is watching.

Arab Painting, Richard Ettinghausen, Macmillan, London 1977.

Islam Stoffe aus Agyptischen Grabern by Ernst Kuhnel, 1927: Berlin
Verlag Ernst Wasmuth.

Mamluk Costume, by Mayer

Cariadoc


From: Falcone al Rasool ibn Muhajir <polearmed at worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: wrapping turbans
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 19:11:20 -0400
Organization: Atlantia, Windmasters' Hill

A Salaam alai Qum!!

The turbans I wear are about 20" wide, like those mentioned in the Miscellany, 
but they are only 8 meters.  Since a Sikh taught me to wind a turban, however, I 
use a little different approach in the wrapping.  I do a figure eight that 
rounds the forehead to the top back of the head, and another circle from the 
forehead to the lower back of the head, with the cloth crossings at the center 
of the forehead(or as good as you can get it).  If you are at an event where I 
am, I'll be happy to demonstrate.  Just bring a turban, or use an extra of mine.

Falcone
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Donald S. Wagner             Sayyid Falcone al Rasool ibn Muhajir
Lead Technical Instructor        Barony of Windmasters' Hill
AT&T WorldNet Service                Kingdom of Atlantia
-----------------------------------------------------------------


From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: wrapping turbans
Date: 3 Jun 1996 04:32:59 GMT
Organization: Best Internet Communications

In article <31B21F98.102F at worldnet.att.net>, Falcone al Rasool ibn Muhajir
<polearmed at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> The turbans I wear are about 20" wide, like those mentioned in the Miscellany,  
> but they are only 8 meters.  Since a Sikh taught me to wind a turban, however,  
> I use a little different approach in the wrapping.  

Oddly enough, a Sikh taught me too. I then modified what he did to give
something that looked like the period pictures I had seen. Have you seen
period pictures that look like Sikh turbans? I wouldn't be surprised if
they existed, especially in India--there are a variety of different ways
of wrapping turbans, giving somewhat different effects, and probably were
in period as well.

David/Cariadoc
-- 
ddfr at best.com


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: wrapping turbans
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 13:30:16 -0400
Organization: Atlantia, Windmasters' Hill

Allah's Peace on you Your Grace!!

David Friedman wrote:
> 
> Oddly enough, a Sikh taught me too. I then modified what he did to give
> something that looked like the period pictures I had seen. Have you seen
> period pictures that look like Sikh turbans? I wouldn't be surprised if
> they existed, especially in India--there are a variety of different ways
> of wrapping turbans, giving somewhat different effects, and probably were
> in period as well.
> 
> David/Cariadoc

I have seen pictures of Persian men in period wearing their turban with the 
style I spoke of, but the cloth was rolled as it was wrapped.  Today's Sikhs, 
the modern men, don't really roll the cloth.  They wrap it flat, which is what 
the Khalsa(Sikh military, Warrior sect) do today.  Again, the style I use to 
wrap is more like the Toare(sp?) style of desert nomad, but I don't get blue dye 
on my face.  That's hard to explain at work.;)

Another thing, just because you wear a turban once at an event, does not 
necessarily mean your persona is required to wear one always, which was period 
Islamic Law and practice, I believe.  I love them on cold nights, or really hot 
days.

If I can remember, Your Grace, I'll find a couple sources and forward.

Falcone
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Donald S. Wagner             Sayyid Falcone al Rasool ibn Muhajir
Lead Technical Instructor        Barony of Windmasters' Hill
AT&T WorldNet Service                Kingdom of Atlantia
-----------------------------------------------------------------


From: jkrissw at aol.com (JkrissW)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: wrapping turbans
Date: 5 Jun 1996 08:07:06 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

In article <31B32128.517E at worldnet.att.net>, Falcone al Rasool ibn Muhajir
<polearmed at worldnet.att.net> writes:

>Another thing, just because you wear a turban once at an event, does not
>necessarily mean your persona is required to wear one always, which was period 
>Islamic Law and practice, I believe.  I love them on cold nights, or really hot 
>days.

On occaision, I leave mine off and only wear the underlying Moroccan knit
skullcap.  On windy Estrella days, I've sometimes unwound the last couple
of winds, passed the cloth over my chin and nose (I use a thin cotton,
little denser than gauze), and tucked the end back up in the turban for an
excellent dust-mask.  On COLD Estrella nights, I've re-wrapped my turban
around a knit "watch cap", which keeps my head toasty warm.  Most of the
time, the regular way I wind it and the Moroccan cap keeps my head warm
enough at night, and allows evaporation cooling during the day.  (I've
been known to spray or sprinkle water on my head to activate the cooling
effect.)  Turbans can be very versatile head coverings.  

Daveed of Granada, AoA, CHA
From the Barony of Lyondemere in fair Caid
mka J. Kriss White in smoggy L.A.
jkrissw at aol.com


From: Sadira bint Raya al-Asiri <robinson at avana.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: wrapping turbans
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 96 01:42:09 PDT
Organization: Avana Communications Corp.

Akimoya asks:
> what are the cloths that modern arabs wear 
> on their heads, basically a large rectangle with fringe, and a fishnet 
> looking pattern, mostly in red or black?  Are these period?
> 
> Also, how would one wear something like this, or a turban, around a 
> conical helmet?

The cloth itself is properly termed a ghoutra, but is commonly called a 
keffiyeh in the SCA. The keffiyeh is actually a skullcap sort of hat (really a 
short fez) which is worn under the ghoutra to keep it clean. 

Yes, ghoutras are period. The houndstooth check (called shmagh) may or may not 
be period. What is undeniably period is a rectangle of solid cloth folded into 
a triangle and worn as a ghoutra, preferably with a tiraz band attached along 
the hem.

Wearing a ghoutra or a turban over a conical helm is easy. For a ghoutra, just 
fold it like usual, and secure it with the igaal, the double rope thing one 
wears with a ghoutra. You could also wrap a turban around the helm, using the 
helm as a base. I will let another, more knowledgeable gentle address how to 
wrap a turban...

In Service--
Sayyida Sadira  


From: David Friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Thanks for your help:  large turban
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:32:08 -0500

"Rowanwald" <Rowanwald at sybercom.net> wrote:
> One extra consideration - turbans gather sweat. Which is great in hot
> weather, but with make-up and stage lights... ugh. If you use a "shriner's"
> hat (or reasonable fascimile) as your base, it will look more authentic, but
> more importantly, you can remove the "inside hat" if you find that it needs
> to be cleaned.

It will probably be more authentic too. At least, there are surviving 
caps which are suspected to have been worn under turbans.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Medieval.html

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	turbans-msg