headgear-msg - 2/5/08 Hats, veils and other headgear. NOTE: See also the files: turbans-msg, fashion-msg, shoes-msg, raingear-msg, feathers-msg, gloves-msg, umbrellas-msg, veils-msg, snoods-cauls-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) Subject: Re: Awards Keywords: Includes the headgear question! Organization: Indiana University Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 16:53:38 GMT nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) writes: >Your general points are well-taken, however, and I agree. Now to the >important question: what about the hats? > >Everyone in the Middle Ages except kids wore hats all the time. In >fact, it is only slightly inaccurate to say that everyone except kids >wore hats all the time until the mid-20th century. Hats were as much >a part of fashion as coats and jewellery. They denoted one's trade, >or one's social standing; they were part of one's clothing. Like >being in the Army, you just didn't go outside without the proper headgear. > >Scadians are seeking to portray mediaeval and Renaissance upper-class >people. What sort of hats do they wear? Greetings from Lothar, I disagree. I have looked at dozens and hundreds of illuminations, pictures and medieval artifacts that portray people in the civilian dress of various periods and my observation is that you can't generalize. All through the Early Christian, Migration and Carolingian Eras you don't see many people with hats on, although you see an occasional crown, the women are inevitably veiled and many of the soldiers are wearing helmets. Don't think that it is due to stylized iconography either: some of the late antique, Byzantine and Carolingian illuminations are more "naturalistic" than anything you'll see until the 15th c. This doesn't mean that people of this era NEVER wore hats, but they weren't a required part of the local costume. Representations of Early Scandinavians and later Germanic people show men bare-headed (although you see a lot of helmets or phyrgian caps) most of the time. In the 11th and 12th c. it is very unusual to see a man wearing a hat, though the women, unless they are very young or representing some virtue, inevitably have some sort of headress on. In the late 12th and early 13th c. little white coifs became common for men, but were by no means an obligatory part of the fashion. I could continue, but suffice it to say that in EVERY culture I have looked at (except maybe Jewish culture) hats were an optional accessory for men which were more or less common (I doubt that the well dressed 15th c. Flemish gentleman would feel comfortable outside of his house without some sort of hat) while most women wore something that was more or less a derivative of a veil. Don't argue it, just start looking through art history books and you'll see my point. Now, I agree that the SCA does a particularly bad job on recreating hats. This is partly due to laziness, but I think that most hats that were worn in the Middle Ages and Renaissance just don't look attractive to modern people. I have jokingly referred to the later Middle Ages and the Renaissance as the "Age of Ugly Hats". Women's headgear beyond the simple veil is hard to get right and is a bitch to wear. I pity a woman in a steeple hennin in a high wind or a low hall. Other factors are that hats are HOT and since they were "optional" many people ignore them to concentrate on their costume. >There's the broad-brimmed hat, worn out-of-doors to keep the sun off >the neck. Fashionable? Rarely. Matching the clothing? Not usually. If you mean the felt "cavalier" hat, I agree. Mostly OOP. If you mean the straw hats, I can show you documentation of the straw hat being used from Ancient Greece to the 16th c. with a lapse during the Imperial Roman period. It was never fashionable, but it was always worn by travellers and people out in the sun. There is a Flemish altar piece that has St. Maurice in full Gothic plate armor wearing.... a simple straw hat that is virtually identical to the ones the peasants are wearing in the illuminations to the Tres Riche Heures 30 years before. I wear an "Amish" style straw hat to summer events. It looks OOP but I can document it to the 15th c. although it is probably an anachronism with a cotehardie. >What about the great Scadian national headgear? The veil with the >circlet over top? Well by gosh you can wear that with any sort of >clothing, any time period, day wear or evening wear, court garb or >field garb, and why? Was it a commonly-worn head covering throughout >the ages? Well, if you consider that very few women were high nobles who could afford crowns it was NEVER a common head covering. Once again, the veil appears in some form or another from Ancient Greece, through Roman times (albeit for Vestal virgins) and on into the late Middle Ages. It was pretty well discarded by women of the upper ranks in the late 15th and 16th c. but it persisted into the 17th c. among the lower classes in some form or another. Using a crown or metal circlet to hold your veil or head-dress on is very period. If you look hard enough you can find example of it. There is a 15th c. ms. illumination of Cretien de Troyes presenting a copy of "Citie des Dames" to her patron, who is a duchess. Her Grace is wearing a modified crown over a bicornate hennin! >Does anybody know what the headgear of an English baron was before >1600? A prize to anyone who can tell me. It wasn't a coronet. His hair. The Bayeux tapestry only has crowns being worn by kings on state occasions. Even William and Harold appear without crowns in the battle scenes. Failing that, on high state occasions, English barons tended to wear caps of maintenance (red with ermine trim) on high state occasions. They also wore matching robes. These outfits never seem to have been worn otherwise. Otherwise, they wore whatever headgear was fashionable at the time, and displayed their wealth in other ways. (This is based on 15th c. mss. illuminations. I doubt that it is accurate prior to 1400.) In the 14th c. they might have worn gowns with their arms embroidered on them, but without a cap. Once again, this was ceremonial costume, never worn otherwise. >It has recently become fashionable for companions of the Laurel to >wear metal wreaths of laurels around their heads. Very Scadian. Very Italianate. There are 15th and 16th c. paintings of victorious generals and popes wearing a crown of laurel, and I wouldn't put it past baroque craftsmen to guild the damned things. Admittedly this was a ceremonial headgear. It wasn't worn every day. But crowning someone with a wreath of laurels at a laureling ceremony would not be totally out of line with period customs. >So why aren't people encouraged to wear hats? 1) Extra Effort to make. 2) Different skills required 3) Bitch to find decent hat felt for some styles 4) Hot 5) Inconvenient to wear 6) Inconsistant with modern notions of fashion, or just butt-ugly >And that is how the award system has kicked the hell out of authentic >headgear. Authentic headgear hasn't really taken off. Neither has really authentic costume. Do you know what your persona's underwear, hosen, doublet and shoes looked like? Do you have them made? (For the record I would have to answer Yes to the first and no to the second). >And don't you go blaming Erroll Flynn, either. Robin Hood knew enough not to >go out without a hat on... But Maid Marian, the Evil Sheriff, Will Scarlet and Friar Tuck didn't.... :) Lothar Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark) Subject: Re: Awards Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 00:40:40 GMT Summary: Look kids! easy women's hats..... Keywords: Includes the headgear question! Greetings.... Let's put an end to this idea that women's hats from the Middle Ages and Renaissance are both hard to do and ugly. First, there is the veil and wimple combination. Almost as easy as the veil alone, and seen in illuminations through the fourteenth century. Second, there is the hairnet, chinstrap/coif/wimple and linen band or crespinette combination. Easy to make, nifty to wear, and perfect for the second half of the thirteenth century into the fourteenth. Third, for you later period types, are the variety of simple small hats seen in the Italian Renaissance period. Once again, elegant, easy to make, and even quite comfortale on a hot day. For 16th century types, there are a wide variety of easy hats one can make, from a simple linen coif (embroider it in blackwork! Impress your firiends!) to flat hats, to the "biggens", a cap which can be made in either velvet or simple linen, depending on the class of the wearer. People who wear French hoods tell me they aren't bad, either, once you get the hang of them. I am noticibly skipping the hennins and huge horned things which one sees in the last half of the fourteeth and the fifteenth centuriees, but they can be done well (and when they are....WOW!). The ubiquitous "padded roll", sometimes shaped by wire, is an OK compromise. Hats make the outfit, take it from "nice" to "oooooh!" Regards Nicolaa de Bracton of Leicester sclark at epas.utoroto.ca SusanCarroll-Clark Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) Subject: Re: Awards Keywords: Includes the headgear question! Organization: Indiana University Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 18:14:53 GMT In article <1993Jul8.202536.3368 at epas.toronto.edu> nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) writes: > >All right, so males in the Byzantine and Carolingian empires didn't >wear hats outdoors? Fine. All those Byzantine and Carolingian folks >are off the hook. And all those Phrygian caps on those Greeks and >Franks are an optical illusion. But what about the rest of the Middle >Ages? But it wasn't universal. And, you never see a clerical figure with a hat on in the iconography, presumably the better to see their tonsures. >What about women? Pretty much universally veiled unless they are representing some sort of allegorical figure, though some women are depicted as bare-headed with their hair up in some early Christian period mss. >And all these helmet-wearers? They wore their helmets all the time >like Hagar the Horrible? As you should know, helmets are heavy and hot to wear for long periods of time. Remember the Norse got beat at Stamford Bridge partially because they were caught without their armor. Or are you being facetious? >T> In the 11th and 12th c. it is very unusual to see a man wearing >T>a hat...[in illuminations] > >Which means they didn't wear hats? They might have worn them, especially out of doors, but they weren't part of the dominant fashion. If it was fashionable, you surely would have seen William and Harold and their friends wearing hats in the Bayeux tapestry. As it is, only the women are covered, and then only with simple veils. >T>early 13th c. little white coifs became common for men, but were by no >T>means an obligatory part of the fashion. > >And there were no other hats in the 13th century? Just those little >white coifs? And the women were still just wearing those veils, eh? > >Perhaps they all had central heating. No the 13th c. woman's headdress consisted of more than just the veil. There was the wimple which went around the neck and the chin and the veil that went over the head and a small "pill box" hat that went on top of that, through most of the century. Look at the Manessa codex (c. 1299) or the figures on Chartres Cathedral to get a sense of what was worn. I'm not an expert on women's hats so I don't know all the variations in fashion from decade to decade and region to region. For men, hood were built into some robes and guardcorps making a very warm garment. >T> Now, I agree that the SCA does a particularly bad job on >T>recreating hats. This is partly due to laziness, but I think that most >T>hats that were worn in the Middle Ages and Renaissance just don't look >T>attractive to modern people. > >... as opposed to houppelandes, which look just great? There are some houpplelandes (especially some of the Burgundian ones) that make you look like a chicken with a perm. I wouldn't wear them on a bet. There are also some houppelandes that look terrific to the modern eye. There were just some medieval fashions that don't agree with modern conceptions of beauty - the Norman haircut, the 14th pouter-pigeon cotehardie, the 16h. bombasted doublet, some of the 15th c. houppelandes, wearing two or more bright primary colors next to each other, excessive puffing and slashing, etc. > ... as opposed to crowns and coronets which are always > executed with the utmost in taste? > >Hell, you're from the Middle Kingdom, owners of the No 10 tin can crowns... There are no guarantees that anything in the SCA will be executed with the utmost taste. I agree that one of the sets of SCA crowns (the earlier versions) is butt-ugly/fantasy. I'd love to see them replaced with something that looks like it came from a 14th c. ms. But I'm biased. >T>I have jokingly referred to the later >T>Middle Ages and the Renaissance as the "Age of Ugly Hats". Women's >T>headgear beyond the simple veil is hard to get right and is a bitch to >T>wear. > > ... as opposed to the dresses, which are easy to get > right and easy to wear? It was an age of ugly costumes too, but the hats struck me as being distinctly ugly. Some dresses are deceptively simple to get right - the cotehardie isn't that hard to sew once you get it fitted right, Italian Renaissance gowns also aren't that terribly difficult to produce and T-tunics are a breeze to turn out. Hats require felt, blocking, wire stiffening, etc. in addition to sewing. Most seamstesses don't know a whole lot about hats, since we don't make them mundanely. >Millinery is a craft like any other. There are lots of Scadians who >make just dandy hats, even though it's tough to do. There are lots >who wear hats, even though they can be "a bitch to wear". Yup. There are also bunch of great armorers and jewellers, but they're scarcer than costumers. >And granted, a "steeple hennin" is hard to make and wear. Is a >v-necked gown, with its miles of cloth and it's weirdly fitting waist, >easy to make or wear? Actually, yes. I've talked with a woman who made one. Once you get the waist right, it is comfortable (almost "orthopedic") to wear and isn't that hard to sew. Admittedly a long train would be a hassle, but you don't have to make the dress that way. Is a 16th c. doublet and slops easy to make or wear? (Comment about hats being hot accidently deleted) 70% of body heat is lost through the head. A hood or veil that covers the head and keeps heat and moisture from escaping out of a garment at the neck is very hot on a hot day. I can wear hosen and a cotton cotehardie at Pennsic when its 85o F with no sweat (literally) because my head is cooled by the breeze. If I put on the hood that goes with it, I start to melt. I had an ex-girlfriend at Pennsic who tried to wear a veil as a sunshade, but had to give it up as being too hot. >T>used from Ancient Greece to the 16th c. with a lapse during the Imperial >T>Roman period. > >No way. They didn't wear hats until the 14th century (except coifs). >You told us that. \8-) Sorry, I meant hats as a part of fashionable attire. As work clothes (helmets for soldiers, straw hats for field hands) hats never went out of style. >You've already said that nobody always wore hats. Except women. > Precisely, but I'm fairly certain that even women might have gone uncovered at times - as children, or unmarried maidens. > >T>Once again, the >T>veil appears in some form or another from Ancient Greece, through Roman >T>times (albeit for Vestal virgins) and on into the late Middle Ages. It >T>was pretty well discarded by women of the upper ranks in the late 15th >T>and 16th c... > >Except in ... what ... all of southern Europe? Well, in church or on the street women might have worn a veil in Southern Europe. When a woman was "indoors" even if she was in the courtyard or on the loggia of a house, she didn't wear a veil. I own a book of 16th c. Venetian woodcuts by Vellochio (pretty crummy mostly, but I trust his drawings of Venetians) which shows women veiled in the street, but uncovered (or even with their hair down) while at home. All the Italian Renaissance portraits I have seen have the women wearing minimal headcovering, but with their hair carefully dressed in other ways. I'll grant that a picture of a woman with her hair loose is very rare, but the elaborate headdresses of the Northern Renaissance and the previous century had pretty well dissappeared in Italy by the 15th c.. > >T> Using a crown or metal circlet to hold your veil or head-dress >T>on is very period. > >T>copy of "Citie des Dames" to her patron, who is a duchess. Her Grace is >T>wearing a modified crown over a bicornate hennin! > >Which is the same as wearing a veil held on by a circlet? Well it's close and it was the only specific reference I could think of immediately that is commonly reproduced in texts on the Middle Ages. Now that I think of it, I'm not so certain that metal circlets were so common. I think most women just used pins. The only metal circlet I can think of is being worn by a 14th c. dandy in an illumination of the King of France entertaining the members of the order of the Star. It is reproduced on the cover of Fabulous Feasts and might be from one of the copies of Froissart's Chronicles. I agree that the large, gaudy crown over a simple veil isn't quite the thing though. > >And who unsexed poor Chretien? Probably that nasty Christine de Pisan... > Oops, my mistake. I meant Christine. >T>Very Italianate. There are 15th and 16th c. paintings of victorious >T>generals and popes wearing a crown of laurel, > >Which means they wore them around all the time, right? Hey, Fabio, >get me my number three wreath, I'm going to a party! Monsignor >Venetti, kindly hand me that wreath of laurels, I'm presiding over the >Curia... Well, no, not all the time, but on formal occasions it wouldn't be too jarring to my sensibilities. Maybe crowning a new Laurel with a laurel wreath should be part of the Laureling ceremony, but the new Peer should only wear the Laurel wreath for the rest of the evening/event. >T>and I wouldn't put it past >T>baroque craftsmen to guild the damned things. > > 15th and 16th century Baroque craftsmen? > > Listening to 15th and 16th century Baroque music while > they worked? > Baroque - late 16th c. (period) and 17th c. (completely or partially OOP). I never claimed that the 15th c. was Baroque and I've seen enough truly gaudy 16th c. stuff to consider the ART baroque in some cases, even if the music and architecture wasn't yet. Tell me that the more excessive motifs in El Greco's painting and Cellini's jewelry aren't "baroque" in style if not in name. >T>Admittedly this was a >T>ceremonial headgear. It wasn't worn every day. But crowning someone with >T>a wreath of laurels at a laureling ceremony would not be totally out of >T>line with period customs. > >Which wasn't at all what I was describing. If you were describing the effect of using a large guilded laurel wreath as a hatband to hold your veil down, I agree - probably not the thing. If you think they're utterly non-Period, I would disagree. >A>>So why aren't people encouraged to wear hats? >T> 1) Extra Effort to make. > >And Scadians don't make an extra effort on their appearance? Oftentimes no. How many nasty suits of armor have you seen on the field? You know, the ones that were made from rusty old steel and pickle-buckets with no covering over it to make it less ugly that have been pounded into rusty, unrecognizable lumps of ugly. How many wrinkled cotton-poly t-tunics with nasty store-bought trim over blue-jeans and running shoes have you seen? >T> 3) Bitch to find decent hat felt for some styles > >As opposed to rattan, which is not a bitch to find? When there's a will... > ...there's an endangered species and a dead market. Nobody makes hats anymore because nobody wears them and beaver fur felt is impossible to get because beavers are a protected species in the U.S. and Europe. It's like getting elephant ivory or whale baleen. Furthermore, if you want to felt your own wool it takes a very large container, a lot of water, a lot of time and a whole lot of mess. To be fair though, you can get wool felt, but it's harder to find than rattan, and there isn't as much of an SCA distribution network for it, the way there is for rattan. >T> 4) Hot > >And a houppelande is not? I don't wear heavy houppelandes when it's hot. That's common sense. A short houppelande made from lighter cloth with an open collar might be managable though. >T> 5) Inconvenient to wear > >And a corset is not? I don't wear corsets either :). Neither do a lot of women because they are inconvient. This cuts down on the variety of garments worn. My lady is a pro-level seamstress, but she won't make any costume later than early 15th c. Italian Renaissance because she hates corsets, hoops and boning. >T> 6) Inconsistant with modern notions of fashion, or just >T>butt-ugly > >And your Amish hat worn with a cote-hardie is going to get you on the >cover of GQ? > No, but it isn't, but it isn't unattractive either, at least to my eyes. I will admit that the hat is strictly functional. I could wear the equally unfashionable wide-brimmed, low crowned "gardening hat" that they sell at Pennsic and be a bit more "medieval" but the "Amish" hat is period and is easier to wear, since it doesn't blow around as much and has a narrower brim. When I don't have to, I don't wear the hat, since the combination looks a bit silly. >Notice, Thomas, that in the above passage you make millinery a >separate category from costume. Why is that? > Different skills. Felting cloth, making wire armatures, stuff like that. Admittedly, the skills are related, but it's a different specialty of costuming. It's also a completely different, peripheral garment. A lot of tailors gasp with relief when they finally finish that snazzy 16th c. boned, jewelled, puffed & slashed, embroidered, padded whatzits and don't have the desire to make the equally fancy hat that goes with it, especially if they don't think that it is as "pretty" as the main costume. . >The SCA has, over the last 26 years, attained much higher standards of >many things. Even hats have probably improved. But hats have been >left way behind. > >My thesis was that it was the fault of the awars system. > My thesis is that the SCA stays at a constant level of quasi-authenticity due to turn-over or lack of interest. Hats, like a number of other artifacts (table wear, camping equipment, musical instruments to name a few that come to mind) just aren't a very popular craft for people to take up and get good at. Costumes are more or less neccessary, armor is more or less neccessary, cooking ditto, brewing and vintning ditto so we get a lot of people doing them. The other crafts lag behind because they aren't as central to what most people in the SCA want to do. When was the last time you heard of somebody getting a Laurel for stained-glass, or painting (NOT illumination)? They just aren't as popular. I agree fully that our awards are stupid, our crowns inauthentic (mostly) and that the SCA is not all that it could be, but I think it is silly to say that "brass hats drive out medieval style hats" or that "everyone in the Middle Ages and Renaissance era went about under a hat irregardless of age, sex, occupation, situation, culture, station or time-period". Like many other things I think it is more complex than that. Oh yeah, did I get the question about what English barons wore on their heads right? Lothar Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) Subject: Re: Awards Keywords: Includes the headgear question! Organization: Indiana University Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 18:54:16 GMT In article <1993Jul9.004040.26714 at epas.toronto.edu> sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark) writes: >Greetings.... > Let's put an end to this idea that women's hats from the Middle >Ages and Renaissance are both hard to do and ugly. > Lots of good ideas deleted Greetings from Lothar, Lady Thorhalla has recreated an item of headgear she calls the "cute little Viking cap" or the Viking hood. It is based on a yellow silk coif found at the Jorvik dig. It basically consists of a rectangle of material folded in half, sewn at the back with ties added at the lower corners. Cardwoven ties and band at the front are optional. Documentable and remarkably simple for any early-Scandinavian or Scandinavian influenced female persona. The phyrgian cap also looks like a breeze to make and was more or less worn from antiquity to the 11th c. Ditto for the coif which was worn from the 12th to the 13th c. as a more-or-less fashionable piece of garb, and to the 16th as a functional garment. Also ditto for the 16th c. "pork-pie" beret. It is nothing but a gathered circle of cloth with a stiffened brim. 14th c. hoods are very easy to make and can be easily converted into early 15th c. chaperons if you make the face hole roughly the same size as your headband measurment. Chaperons themselves are also easy to make they are just a padded tube of cloth with the "fru-fru" sticking out of the top. The 14th c. "robin-hood" hat, can be made from a triangle of felt turned up at the sides and back steamed into shape. Finally, the Italian or Flemish "sugar-loaf" hat that is so common in 15th c. paintings and illuminations can be made by cutting off the brim of regular hat with a suitably shaped crown. Hats CAN be fun and easy. Lothar. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) Subject: Re: Headgear (was Re: SCA too litigeous?) Organization: Indiana University Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 20:17:09 GMT Greetings from Lothar, The friendly,local costume research laurel in my group showed me a photocopy of an article in Costumes magazine by Janet Arnold on this subject. Appearantly, the crimped veil edge was achieved by having a crimped selvage on the cloth. In the article she collaborated with a weaver to produce bands of textiles that look exactly like those seen in a similar 14th c. German headdress. (If anyone has Stella Mary Newton's Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince, it is the picture of the German statue in Mainz cathedral. The woman looks like she is wearing lasagne noodles over a 13th c. style "pill-box" hat. Weaving patterns are included in the article. So, I think that the crimped headdress from c. 1350-60 was layered square veils of crimped material that were layered and probably pinned in place to form the "waffle-weave" look you see from the front. Lothar \|/ 0 . Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) Subject: Re: Headgear (was Re: SCA too litigeous?) Organization: Indiana University Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1993 05:33:13 GMT Greetings from Lothar, MEA CULPA ALERT!!!! I am guilty of adding to the collective misinformation distributed on the Rialto - again. Here is the REAL citation: Frilled Headdresses Mary Stella Newton and Mary M. Giza Textile History #14 (pages forgotten). Basic thrust of the article is identical. I have read the article, but I can't really photocopy it, since the photocopy I've got is in pretty crummy shape. Anyway, you might be able to get the 'zine via ILL. Happy hunting, Lothar \|/ 0 . From: jliedl at nickel.laurentian.ca Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: headgear-14th c. women's Date: 20 Sep 93 10:46:25 -0500 Organization: Laurentian University Greetings all from Ancarett Nankivellis, In article <1993Sep20.122959.18117 at bcars6a8.bnr.ca>, hwt at bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup) writes: > In article <2772b1$7o4 at usenet.rpi.edu>, habura at vccnw01.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) writes: > > |> Now: Would anyone else like to talk about mid-14th c. English women's > |> headgear, especially crimped veils? > > Yes. How did those things get pinned on? Is there a way to avoid about > 30% hearing loss? I _do_ fourteenth century and have a few helpful words of advice, practice and speculation. First off, a small correction. The veils aren't crimped (i.e. pressed into little half-curls with an iron) but are rather woven with an extremely tightly-packed selvedge so as to cause this spontaneous curling when taken off the loom. (Home-weavers who have overworked linen thread may concur on this happening). You would also have several identical veils layer upon each other to get the effect (and show off to the world just how wealthy you are). The way to avoid hearing loss is simple--if you attach to an underwrap (across chin or on the back of the head) don't wrap over the ears. Either just in front or just behind. This _is_ tricky (as it involves complex physics of several extremely aerodynamic layers of fabric) but can be done. I notice more muffling of hearing with the Katherine Hepburn as Eleanor of Aquitaine (TM) style of head-dress. I also practice a nifty lower-class style of headwrap that covers my hair, requires not a single pin, and can serve as the basis for more veils to be pinned onto, without hearing loss. (One Pennsic I became quite a tourist attraction as I toiled in the Septentrian camp along the roadway-- passersby saying "Look how medieval she looks!" Sigh. Sort of the peasant women in the _Tres Riches Heures_ look.) Any more people who practice fourteenth-century women's headdress care to add their experience? Ancarett Nankivellis Janice Liedl Laurentian University, Canada JLIEDL at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Early male headgear Date: 18 Jan 94 13:27:17 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. There was some sort of head-dress in the grave at Bjerringhoj, Mammen Denmark which dates to about tenth century if I recall correctly, but the guy in the grave was some sort of chieftan, so maybe that would be as inappropriate as a crown. Besides it's the right time but the wrong place. The Jorvik centre at coppergate York has dummys dressed in re-constructions of pre-conquest anglo-Norse costume. One has a cap made of sheepskin with the fur side inside. The cap is made out of four parts each roughly triangular with two edges of the triangle having a convex curve. They are sewn together along the curved sides to make a hemi-spherical cap. Ideal for a cold day but hell when it's hot and probably not ideal indoor wear unless it's winter and the heating's failed (I use one as an arming cap inside my helmet, but we don't hit one another as hard as you folks seem to, and headshots are rare accidents, I wouldn't recommend it as an arming cap for you heavy hitting types) Caps of needlebinding were worn in scandinavia which look vaguely like modern knitted hats (the sort with a pom pom on top but the needlebinding version didn't have a pom pom.) I'm afraid that needlebinding was rare in Britain, I only know of examples from the viking dominated north. If only you were a viking you could take your pick of all the flashy caps from Birka which were decorated with tablet woven braid or metal fittings, though these were worn with kaftan like coats, and may well have been out doors dress. I have seen pictures of saxons in manuscripts wearing phrygian caps. It is not certain wherher these are cloth caps or helmets I don't know of any which have been found intact, but you could improvise a cloth version. They look either pleasingly period or absolutely daft depending on your tastes. These were being worn in biblical battle scenes, so they were outdoors as well. (Phyrgian caps have a point that sort of curves over towards the front of the hat, it's difficult to describe, you really need a picture) It looks like you'll have to either wear an outdoor cap indoors, wear a wig, or put up with your bald spot showing. (Unless you want a sex change, there is lots of headgear for saxon women :-) That gave me a thought, I don't know if it's a custom in the USA, but in the UK women put on hats to go to church but men take them off. I wonder if that custom goes back to Anglo-Saxon ideas about morality which required pious women to cover their heads? (Apparently some of the clergy were worried that women's ears would give them erotic thoughts) Jennifer/Rannveik Vanheim vikings From: fnklshtn at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Early male headgear Date: 18 Jan 1994 17:58:58 GMT Organization: New York University, NY, NY In article <JAB2.94Jan18132717 at bhars243.stl.stc.co.uk>, jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) writes:> >The Jorvik centre at coppergate York has dummys dressed in >re-constructions of pre-conquest anglo-Norse costume. One has a cap >made of sheepskin with the fur side inside. The cap is made out of >four parts each roughly triangular with two edges of the triangle >having a convex curve. They are sewn together along the curved sides >to make a hemi-spherical cap. Ideal for a cold day but hell when it's >hot and probably not ideal indoor wear unless it's winter and the >heating's failed (I use one as an arming cap inside my helmet, but we >don't hit one another as hard as you folks seem to, and headshots are >rare accidents, I wouldn't recommend it as an arming cap for you heavy >hitting types) Same pattern as used by modern Jews as sculcap but without the fur. Older caps tend to be bigger than the ones we currently use - maybe these were worn by non jews as well - without fur for indoor use. Oh, yeah... In Usbekestan both jews and non jews wear such a cap - usually very elaborately decorated (called Tubeteika in Russian) Another pattern for a cap is a cloth disk sown to a strip of cloth - see for example caps worn by black-muslims. I've seen this pattern used by medieval Italians, North-American Indians, and Siberians from 12 thousand years ago - as well as modern Usbeks, Afgans ... etc. >Caps of needlebinding were worn in scandinavia which look vaguely like >modern knitted hats (the sort with a pom pom on top but the >needlebinding version didn't have a pom pom.) I'm afraid that >needlebinding was rare in Britain, I only know of examples from the >viking dominated north. > >If only you were a viking you could take your pick of all the flashy >caps from Birka which were decorated with tablet woven braid or metal >fittings, though these were worn with kaftan like coats, and may well >have been out doors dress. > >I have seen pictures of saxons in manuscripts wearing phrygian caps. >It is not certain wherher these are cloth caps or helmets I don't >know of any which have been found intact, but you could improvise a >cloth version. They look either pleasingly period or absolutely daft >depending on your tastes. These were being worn in biblical battle >scenes, so they were outdoors as well. >(Phyrgian caps have a point that sort of curves over towards the >front of the hat, it's difficult to describe, you really need a >picture) If you ever seen a Smurf you know what a Phrygian cap looks like. (it's the hat they wear) > >It looks like you'll have to either wear an outdoor cap indoors, wear >a wig, or put up with your bald spot showing. > >(Unless you want a sex change, there is lots of headgear for saxon >women :-) > >That gave me a thought, I don't know if it's a custom in the USA, but >in the UK women put on hats to go to church but men take them off. >I wonder if that custom goes back to Anglo-Saxon ideas about morality >which required pious women to cover their heads? (Apparently some of >the clergy were worried that women's ears would give them erotic >thoughts) I vaguelly remember a letter by St. Paul on this matter - chances are it comes from Paul rather than ideas native to the Anglo-Saxons. Nahum From: Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: ARGH! How do those muffin caps work??? Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 13:54:40 GMT Organization: RAND In Article <craig_polson-1910941308420001 at security1.radius.com>, craig_polson at radius.com (Craig Polson) wrote: >I just spent a few hours making my first muffin cap from the instructions >in, "Elizabethan Costuming for the years 1550-1580" and it DOESN'T FIT. >Hrumph. I followed the instructions exactly, but it's nearly impossible to >get on my head in the first place, then when I do get it on (after several >minutes of contortions), it falls off immediately if I toss my head around >at all. Some working cap this is! It would never stay on through cooking, >cleaning and the like. My educated guess is that the "band" part that's supposed to fit your head is too tight. If you can, you might want to unpick the appropriate seam and resew it. You want it big enough to lay where you want it to on your head, and you may have to experiment with it. (Is it possible you didn't factor in a seam allowance when measuring, or that you used the E.C. measurements, not your own?) I've also seen caps like this that "cheated" and had the one seam open, with a ribbon tie to make it fit. Also, I recommend using straight pins (preferably glass headed in a color that "blends in") to pin the cap to your hair, which is stuffed inside the cap. Use several, not just one or two, for security's sake. If the cap's a bit loose, tendrils might escape, but the pins should keep the hat on and most of your hair captured. ****************************************** SCA: Philippa de Ecosse, Lyondemere, Caid mka: Phyllis Gilmore, Santa Monica and Torrance, CA From: erica at soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Erica L. Frank) Newsgroups: alt.fairs.renaissance,rec.org.sca Subject: Re: These %*$ at #& HATS! ARGH! Date: 29 Oct 1994 02:19:46 GMT Organization: Computer Science Undergraduate Association, UC Berkeley In article <craig_polson-2010942147460001 at security1.radius.com>, Craig Polson <craig_polson at radius.com> wrote: >Okay, so I just spent 2+ DAYS working on a wearable hat for my first SCA >event this weekend. I have the book, "Elizabethan Costuming for the years >1550-1580" and have followed the directions exactly for both the muffin >hat and caul. THEY JUST DON'T WORK! What am I doing wrong!?!?!?!? > >The muffin hat won't stay on my head more than a couple of minutes >whereupon it slips right off. The caul is somewhat better due to the >addition of elastic, but it's a constant battle to readjust it. I just Try sewing one or two hair combs (you know, about 2" wide, curved things, real popular in the mid 80's) to the inside of the muffin cap, one in front and one in back. Also, the brim of the muffin cap should be as small as possible, just barely fitting over your head, if it's going to stay on. Popular RenFaire solutions include elastic, hairpins, & ties in the back. Those who have long enough hair sometimes use hatpins. Otherwise, wearing another hat, like a flatcap, over it will make it stay put, but you may not want to wear that many layers on your head. -- erica at soda.CSUA.berkeley.edu From: tray0003 at gold.tc.umn.EDU (Virginia Traylor) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Real Sealwax POISON! Date: 1 Nov 1994 09:39:53 -0500 >DB><extensive and informative text deleted for brevity> >DB>Thank you so much for getting back to me so quick. I have proposed to a >DB>friend >DB>of mine that we make some sealing-wax candles, but until now had not any >DB>idea of its composition.... > Cinibar is ground mercury ore. When burned, it gives off mercury vapor. Use >it in a candle and you'll go as mad as a hatter!! For Real! Permanently! > In Service > Aleksandr the Traveller Yep, little knowledge can be very unhealthy. I admit to being somewhat of an athenticity mavin. But one of my current interests is period hats. Problem is that the phrase "mad as a hatter" has a base in reality. Mercury was used in making felt hats in period -- so I think I'll settle for modern methods that produce period-like facsimiles :-} Ciara Virginia Traylor Institute for Community Integration University of Minnesota tray0003 at gold.tc.umn.edu From: kkozmins at mtholyoke.edu (Kim C Kozminski) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: 12 cent headgear Date: 6 Jun 1995 17:07:59 GMT Organization: Mount Holyoke College A good place to start with head-pieces of a particular period is Catherine Wilcox "The Mode in Hats and Headgear" I believe it's out of print, but a lot of libraries have it. Once you've found something that appeals to you, look for the original that she did her re-drawing from to fine tune the details. Most of the 12th century pieces she illustrates are from well-known tomb-brasses and cathedral statuary, and a few are from illuminated manuscripts. Good luck! Mistress Roen From: Gretchen Miller <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Request help with Garb Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 12:57:34 -0400 Organization: Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA I've used the following with some success--it's my interpretation of the headpiece in one of the of Irish women by Lucas de Heere (1575)--It's basically a turban with earflaps; I just tuck my hair under it. Take a piece of cloth 12 to 18" wide by at least 7 feet long. Put the middle of the cloth over the top of your head letting equal length pieces fall on either side. Twish the entire length of both ends loosely, so that you have a cap on your head. Cross the ends at the back, then at the front. If you've got enough, cross at the back again. When you're finished wrapping, pull the ends through the folds over your ears--the ends should hang over your ears to your jaw line. Course if you're doing young, unmarried, just put on a fillet and let it go at that. No other covering needed. In Irish and especially Scottish cultures, covering the hair was a sign of being married--young men wrote poems to their ladies about how they'd like to see them cover their hair with fair linen, meaning that they wanted to marry them. toodles, margaret From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: felt hat smooooshed Date: 3 Sep 1995 23:08:58 -0400 Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science >On the way back form Pennsic the new hat was deformed. >Suggestions? >thanks in advance Some people have all the luck, it usually takes me a year and several rainstorms to get mine deformed properly after buying a new one! Talk to a fighter about deformation of head to match? What is it made from? For Felt--Steam the hat and shape it on a mold and let cool/dry. For "straw" when I inadvertantly smushed the crown of my wife's sun hat I restored domestic tranquality by placing a wet washrag in the upside down hat and supporting it so the weight & moisture gradually (overnight) popped the crown back out. wilelm the smith AKA wilelm of the disreputable hat From: habura at magritte.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: 14th century headdress for women Date: 21 Dec 1995 19:20:10 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Hi, Jen! You have a number of choices available to you, and your choice will depend on what sort of image you're trying to present. If you want to look screamingly avante-garde 1340's, and you're young, and have hair you can braid, go bareheaded. Braid your hair either into a pair of vertical braids reaching to the sides of your jaw, or long braids coiled over your ears. Look at the ladies in the _Romance of Alexander_ illuminations for the look. Or, look at the famous painting from the Luttrell Psalter of Richard Luttrell on his warhorse, being handed his equipment by his wife and daughter-in-law; their hair is similar, but they wear short (rectangular?) near-transparent veils and probably-metal thin circlets. If you're a little older/trying to look a bit more modest, do your hair the same way and put a veil over it. I prefer oval ones, since they drape better. You might look at the Alice de la Pole effigy for some ideas. The next one's tough, but it was all the rage around 1360: the "goffered" headdress. This one's constructed of a bunch of short veils with ruffled edges, stacked atop one another, so that one mass of ruffs sticks out around of the face, and the other hangs beneath the shoulders. I can't recall the names of the effigies that show this style (the book I'd use is at home), but there are several, and the style is distinctive. The only problem is that ruffled cloth like this was probably specially woven, and I'm having trouble recreating it. If you're trying to look conservative, wear a veil and wimple. With ruffled edges if you can find them; these ruffles were apparently high fashion around the end of the 13th.c, but were no big deal (except as part of the goffered headdress) 50 years later. There's a misericord from Chartres (I think) that shows a woman's head with this arrangement. If you want to look high-fashion and don't mind a hassle, construct a "butterfly" armature--I use wire--, stick it on your head, and drape a veil over it to simulate a pair of horns. Look at the various paintings of Christine de Pisan to see what I'm talking about. If you want to look middle-class or rich-peasant, make a hood. One relatively easily accessible painting is on the February page of the _Tres Riches Heurs; the woman in the red cotehardie is wearing one, with the front edge folded back. These are comfortable and easy to wear. If you want to look noble, make a hood with a deep cape and no actual room for your head, and embroider the dickens out of it. Charles VI of France, when he was the Dauphin, had as one of his "less fancy" hoods one of purple velvet embroidered all over with gold vines. If you want to look peasantish, grab a rectangle of cloth and make a loose sort of turban out of it. Many of the peasants in the _Tres Riches Heurs_ wear them. (whew!) Since my persona's middle class, I either wear the veil-over-braids or the hood now. I used to wear the Christine de Pisan "horned" veil, but now I use it only with clothes that are already a bother. Alison MacDermot *Ex Ungue Leonem* From: rorice at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: 14th century headdress for women Date: 22 Dec 1995 17:26:46 GMT Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington In article <4bcc1a$2kh at usenet.rpi.edu>, Andrea Marie Habura <habura at magritte.its.rpi.edu> wrote: >Hi, Jen! You have a number of choices available to you, and your choice will >depend on what sort of image you're trying to present. Good advice, but the 'Tres Riches Heures' is early 15th c. There are some decent books on the subject of 14th c. costume. In addition to the Textiles and Clothing book from HMSO, there is Costume of the 14th and 15th c. by Margaret Scott (as part of the history of costume in pictures series) and, Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince by Stella Mary Newton As Alison said, the type of headdress that women wore in the 14th c. depended on marital status, year, fashion-conciousness, modesty, and wealth. Additionally, there was some variation from country to country. Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince gives the best indication of this (not surprisingly, the headdresses of Southern Europe tended to be lighter and simpler than those of Northern Europe). Lothar From: mugjf at uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Gwyndlyn J Ferguson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: 14th century headdress for women Date: 24 Dec 1995 01:43:25 GMT Organization: Educational Computing Network : Anyways, what I'm wondering now is what type of headwear did women wear : around 1350? I would like to find something to wear with a pari-color : coathardie (sp?). The dress is green and black and will be wearing a : silver belt (girdle?). I believe wipples were worn before this period so : that idea is out. Yes, wimples are more or less out, at least in the 12th century sense. What I wear with my cotehardies (and how did you get ahold of my green and black parti-color?) is a "ramshorn" style hairstyle. This is strongly reminiscent of Princess Leia and the buns on each side of her head. PArt your hair in the middle (bangs aren't period, but are overlooked) and braid or ponytail each side to the front of your head -- in front of your ears. Then make a bun out of each one. If you like you can cover each one with a "hair cage" (I got mine at Wal-Mart). Then drape an oblong veil across the top, with the long side going across the top of your head and over the buns. Don't let this drape too far over your forehead, it should still let the buns show. Secure the veil to the buns (I use long straight pins -- quilter's pins, or florist pins). : Could I just wear a veil with a circlet of braided fabric (using the same : fabric I used in the dress). Is it true in the Middle Kingdom, that I can't : wear any type of metal circlet since I do not have a Award of Arms yet? : Does this include any type of circlets including my fabric one? Etc. I use this as a quick cheater version so there's at least _something_ on my head. There is no circlet restriction in the Middle that _I_ know of, and I've spent my whole SCA life here, and worn circlets both metal and padded cloth with no one telling me otherwise -- just make sure it doesn't have any decorations that stick _up_, to be absolutely sure. I love to see people wearing proper headgear, good luck! Gwyn __ *Gwyn Ferguson***Western Illinois University *SCA: Lady Gwyndlyn Caer Vyrddin***Lochmorrow-Midrealm *Internet: GJ-Ferguson at wiu.edu <<<<New address!!! From: schenoweth at usa.pipeline.com(Susan M. Chenoweth) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Hat Forms.. Date: 23 Jan 1996 10:22:17 GMT Organization: Pipeline USA >A question..I would like to make a period wide-brim felt hat, (ala >"Three Musketeers"). >I have the instructions on HOW, but I do not have a form for the >crown part of the hat.. >Would anyone know where I could find one?? >S. Montague.. Williams Costume Company, Inc. of Las Vegas has a number of hat forms; the pirate form may be what you're looking for (or could be adapted). Their phone number is 702-384-1384; catalog is free. Hope this helps. -- Susan M. Chenoweth From: doug_brunner at hp-corvallis.om.hp.com (Doug Brunner) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Hat Forms.. Date: 23 Jan 1996 15:14:23 GMT Organization: Hewlett Packard Inkjet Comp. Div. In article <4e1b90$2h4_001 at news.iquest.net>, oya at iquest.net (Sandra Montague) says: > >A question..I would like to make a period wide-brim felt hat, (ala "Three Musketeers"). >I have the instructions on HOW, but I do not have a form for the crown part of the hat.. >Would anyone know where I could find one?? > >S. Montague.. Believe it or not, try the local Army/Navy Surplus. The Marines and Seabees I used to be stationed with used something that looked like an adjustable stovepipe. They would place the wet hat over this form, then expand it. It tightened up the hat and pulled out all of the wrinkles. Bruno From: priest at vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Viking and Anglo-Saxon Hats Date: 25 Feb 1996 00:38:20 GMT Organization: Vassar College Greeting from Thora Sharptooth! About the ninth to eleventh centuries, Ben Levick (ben at hrofi.demon.co.uk) asked: 1) Does anyone out there have any evidence from this period of English >men of a non-military nature (i.e. civilians) wearing hats (with the >notable exception of the well known manuscript showing the king and >his Witan wearing their dunces' caps), or were hats seen primarily >as the mark of a military man? The best single source I have for this is Gale Owen-Crocker's _Dress in Anglo-Saxon England_, which suggests that hats may not have been particularly common in the tenth and eleventh centuries. She mentions the "hufe," an ecclesiastical cap of some sort, but most other headgear appears to have been military in nature. >2) We are all familiar with the rather stylish Viking' fur-brimmed >leather hat, used by Viking re-enactors all around the world, >but what evidence is there for its use in this period, particularly >in western Scandinavia and the British Isles? Was it really used or >is it another one of those items, like cross-gartered leg bindings >and double-headed axes, that are more common in modern reconstructions >than contemporary sources? At least two main types of men's headwear have been found in Sweden, in the Birka men's graves of the ninth and tenth centuries. One type (Hagg's "Type A") has been mutated by many re-enactors into the aforementioned fur-brimmed leather hat, although the originals appear to have been neither leather nor fur-brimmed. Both types of headgear correlate to a specific men's overgarment, believed by some historians to have been a Rus military garment. However, I haven't seen any archaeological sources that conclusively document any specific type of men's headgear in the western Viking milieu in the same period. For sources, contact me privately. *********************************************************************** Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth priest at vassar.edu Frostahlid, Austrrik Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or *********************************************************************** From: dickeney at access4.digex.net (Dick Eney) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Garb resource help requested Date: 27 Mar 1996 13:34:19 -0500 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA In article <4jbk7i$j15 at bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca>, Richard M. Albrecht <rmalbrec at chat.carleton.ca> wrote: > > I am having some troubles researching a piece of garb and would >appreciate some help from the whole of The Society. I need >bibliographical refences and examples for a chaperons (capelets with >hoods) that open in the front, preferably using buttons as a closure. >John peacock shows one on page #14 of his book "Costume 1066-1990's" >(second fellow from the left) but fails to tells us where He is pulling >this from. I am hoping to use the design for some Pennsic garb, but >accuracy is of chief importance. > > Also while on this topic is there any historical precidence for >hoodless chaperons? The chaperon (hooded capelet) appears in the 14th century; look for 14th and 15th century art books. By a hoodless chaperon I assume you mean a short hoodless cape? Short capes existed, but the only example I can think of offhand of a short fitted shoulder-cape is the German-area "goller", which was worn by women to cover the low necklines of their gowns in cold weather (see Kohler). Generally, I believe the capelet was just a long hood that kept the rain out of the back of your neck. I find that a simple hood with a 6-inch capelet tucked under my winter coat is perfect for snow shoveling--the hood keeps my ears warm while letting out excess heat, and the caplet keeps the back of my neck warm. Much better than a hood attached to the coat, for some reason. -- Tamar the Gypsy From: coineaucgh at aol.com (Coineaucgh) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Phrygian Caps Date: 11 Apr 1996 21:36:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) I phrequently wear phrygian caps. The first one I had I bought from a merchant. When I saw it was just two pieces with a seam from front to back I started to make my own. It may take a few tries to get the right peak. Try stuffing the peak a little if you want it to stand up (or stay hooked, depending on your style) Coinneaucgh From: Elaine Ragland <er37 at columbia.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Phrygian Caps Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 11:57:31 -0400 Organization: Columbia University On 11 Apr 1996, Drachene wrote: > Robert W. Pastor (rpastor at grouper.pasco.k12.fl.us) wrote: > : Does anyone know where I can get patterns/ideas for 12th c. > : headgear? > > As a student of German, should that not be Frisian caps? Oh well, if I'm > wrong, ignore me, please. It's rather too late here. > > -- Katherine Shaughnessy, Lady of Shadowkeep It's Phrygian, as in Phrygia, now a part of Turkey. In other words, it's an ancient cap which was used all the way through the Middle Ages. It was used by the Romans as the symbol of manumission, hence the Revolutionary French "Liberty Cap." Classical mosaics usually depict Amazons wearing them. For patterns, you might check out Rev War patterns for the "Liberty cap". Perhaps Jason Townsend's catalogue. Melanie de la Tour From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (Marc Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: re: A Question about Hats (1300) Date: 6 Jun 1996 11:27:23 -0400 Organization: The Internet <Antoine D'Aubernoun<rshipp at flash.net (Randy Shipp)>> >Learned Diarmuit, >Have you seen illustrations which show the long-tail wrapped about the >head, turban-like? I don't know what time period that's from, but I >thought I'd add it to the list. Thank you. I appreciate the input. I believe they start doing that with their hoods in the late 13th century, and gradually get more nuts about it, eventually taking off the hood, sticking their heads in the face hole of the hood, wrapping the tail around the outside to hold it on, and flopping the rest to the side (The "Chaperon", I believe). "Fides res non pecunniae, Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn sed temporis" University of Northkeep/Company of St. Jude -- Unknown Recreator Northkeepshire, Ansteorra (I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu) From: morgandev at aol.com (MorgandeV) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: A Question about Hats (1300) Date: 8 Jun 1996 11:31:57 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) The Chaperone started out as a rolled up hood (roll up the part that covers your head, put the thing on your head. The shoulder cape flops over the top, and the liripipe hangs down. Eventually this evolved into a seperate form, with a padded roll, attached liripipe, and a cockscomb on top, sometimes wired to keep it in a particular shape! There is a simpler version of this, where you take two pieces of fabric, shaped sort of like this: _______ / \ / \ | | The Measurement across should be 1/2 | | your head circumference, plus | | an inch or two, to allow for the roll. | | | | | | Sew them together and roll up from the bottom. This gives you a roll, and a little cap, without all the extraneous stuff. If you can, sew the part that will be the cap together, then turn it inside out to sew the rest. That way your seams don't show on the roll. Otherwise, make pretty seams. Also you can line it, and have a roll in color A, and the cap in color B, and vice versa, if it pleases you. Hope this helps, it sounds sort of like what you described. Vaugely Morgan de Villarquemada, Sire de Ste. Claire Barony of Dragonship Haven Kingdom of the East Morgandev at AOL.com From: habura at lib119.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: A Question about Hats (1300) Date: 10 Jun 1996 21:38:24 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Due to the good offices of a friend, I have somewhere in my stack o' photocopies a top view of a lady wearing one of those cage headdresses. (She's lying down. It's an effigy.) The cages are held on by one circlet that goes around the brows, and a supporting half-hoop that goes from cage to cage over the top of the head, sort of like earphones. The hair shows a quite visible part, so I think the hair is divided into two pigtails or braids and stuffed into the cages. So, how does one do this? I'm pretty sure the cages are open meshwork, which is what's been stopping me from making one of these suckers myself. I've been eyeing pieces of fireplace grillwork speculatively, but no luck so far. The rest should be easy: you can get engine freeze-out caps to cap off the bottoms of the cages, and metal bands can be gotten relatively easily for the circlet and half-hoop. My favorite false-hair solution is just that: theatrical wool-crepe false hair. It comes in long strands that can be gently fluffed, treated with conditioner so they don't frizz like mad, and braided into false braids. I use these, and am much happier with them than I was with the platinum-blonde Halloween wig I was using previously, which looked too artificial. If you need a real cite for that effigy, I can go document-diving. This post is off the top of my head. Hope it helped, though. Alison MacDermot *Ex Ungue Leonem* From: Mann <saffron at citynet.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: A Question about Hats (1300) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 18:26:54 -0700 Organization: CityNet Corporation PHefner200 wrote: >Now I want to learn to make various types of Gothic and late Gothic >hats, especially the hats that were worn at Duke Philip the Good's court >in fifteenth-century Burgundy. Does anybody know of any patterns I don't have any patterns for that period but I've found that the book "From the Neck Up" by Denise Dreher, Publisher is Madhatter Press, is a good book to start. Though much of it is for more modern hats. I have found that several of the companies have been helpful with me on telling me possible areas that I can research. Sorry I don't remember which ones that were so helpful. If I can remember will reply to you. Hope this helps. From: dickeney at access4.digex.net (Dick Eney) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Headwear at Pennsic Date: 30 Jul 1996 20:01:34 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Gale Storm Latzko <tempest at netaxs.com> wrote: >I hope the good gentles of the Rialto will be able to give similar >guidance to a problem at the other end of the body -- what should one >wear on one's head at Pennsic? > >My persona, as yet loosely defined, is a 14th century Welsh woman. I >assume that some type of veil would be in order? Pennsic of all events is one at which you _need_ headgear. Fortunately, one of the best I have found is also the easiest: the simple headrail, a piece of cloth (white for preference) draped over the head and fastened somehow. I wear a metal circlet over it, but a cloth circlet or twist of cloth such as the infidels wear is also possible. The shape may be rectangular or oval. It is helpful to let enough drape over the neck to protect that area also from excessive sun, and to let the f