gloves-msg - 2/2/14

Gloves. Making gloves. Muffs. History of muffs and gloves. Referances.

NOTE: See also the files: leather-msg, beadwork-msg, jewelry-msg, netting-msg, lea-tanning-msg, leather-dyeing-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From:    Lea Tuley 
To:      Donna Hrynkiw 
Date: 06-May-90 10:30pm
Subject: Re: I Want to Make Gloves

for information on glovemaking, try 'Threads' magazine, issue #19, oct./nov.
1988.  available from The Taunton Press, 63 So. Main Street, Box 355, Newtown
CT.  06470-9989.  they have an article called Handmaking Leather Gloves that
includes pattern, theory on patterning, stitching illustrations, and detailed
text and instructions.  i highly recommend the magazine to anyone interested
in the fiber arts, as it regularly covers spinning, dyeing, crocheting,
knitting, sewing, weaving, and just about every aspect.  even the clothing
articles, while not costume- or garb-oriented, are interesting for details of
garment construction that can be applied to other projects.  these are also
the same publishers that have bought out folkwear and are bringing out those
patterns again (one hopes with better instructions).  if you can't acquire a
back issue, drop me a postcard at 10701 carovilli dr. austin, tx.  78748 & i
will copy mine & mail to you.
.
yours in service, 
liran


From: 21464RM%MSU.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU ("Roseann.Miller")
Date: 7 May 90 18:43:18 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto, and esp. Elizabeth of Braidwood:

I have been experimenting with glovemaking, and have come up with a
few reference books you may find useful:

Collins, C. Cody.  Love of a Glove. New York, Fairchild Publishing, 1949.
  (has a simple history of gloves, some photos of period gloves from 1500
   on, and some quickie hints on leatherworking for gloves)
Cummings, Valerie.  Gloves.  London, Batsford. 1982.  (Good historical
  info, but starts at 1600.  Does very briefly cover Elizabethan gloves,
  and has reproduction of mid-17th-century patterns for gloves)
Johnson.  Leatherwork.  London, C.A. Pearson, 1949.  (Leatherworking
  how-to with instructions for making both lined and unlined leather gloves.
  The patterns given are not too far off from the ones in Cummings)
Smith, F.R.  Practical Leatherwork.  New York, Pitman. 1946.  (Dover took
  over this one, but I don't know if it's being published anymore.  Like
  Johnson, a modern book but with adaptable patterns and helpful how-tos
  on construction).

There are also extant period gloves to be found in books on period
embroidery and costume accessories.  There are knitted gloves in pictures
and references, knitters on the Net may know of some.

It seems the major trick in making gloves is not the sewing or decorating, 
but the fitting - make patterns on scrap leather or interfacing, and test- 
fit before cutting the good leather.  I've made 2 pair so far - one of 
heavy suede lined with rabbit fur (I'm tired of freezing fingers at the 
Winter Revel), and a pair of lighter "suede" gloves with embroidered
gauntlet cuffs (in exchange for a new gambeson), and the fit is the most
difficult thing to work out.  However, once the pattern is set, you're
fine.  I've yet to use a purchased pattern - I'm heading to the library
to trace down that address mentioned yesterday on the net!

Hopefully this information will be helpful.  Next project - gloves for
archery before the Pennsic!

     Roxanne of Bloekmedwe                :   R. Miller
     Barony of the NorthWoods, Midrealm   :   Okemos, MI


From: ctj!cjohnson at WB3FFV.AMPR.ORG
Date: 9 May 90 03:47:12 GMT

Subject: gloves

Lady Anora de Sylveaston wrote an article on glove making, but I forget where
it was published.  I rember noting that according to Lady Annora, it was
amazing how bad one could make the gloves and still have them fit, so glvoe
making is apparently not as difficult as one might think with all those little
pieces to put together.

Knitted gloves are quite easy, in fact, and several period ones are pictured
in Richard Rutt's A History of Handknitting.  

Basically the easiest way to make a pair of gloves is to lay your hand on a
piece of fabric and trace around it.  Allow extra for seam allowance and cut
two.  Sew them together.  to get more freedom of movement, cut the thumb
separately and sew it on at an angle.  I suppose that doesn't make sense.

Gloves without fingers were also used in occupations where the sensitivity of
the fingertips was needed.  Mittens are easiest of all, and were made in
several styles, including thumbless, thumbed, one fingered and two fingered. 
I haven't seen anything I'd call a muff.  Thumbless mittens help the thumb stay
warm by having it in the same space as the fingers.  Mittens with various 
numbers of fingers give more mobility to the hand.  Mittens with one or two 
fingers 
were used for shooting guns and probably bows in cold weather.  Such mittens 
are still known as "shooting gloves" 
 
If one is to judge by surviving ethnic patterns of knitted gloves and mittens, the medeival mitten was pointed at the fingers.  This is the easiest way to get
a regular and neat finish to the mittens, and since medeival people liked
points ont ehir shoes, they probably went for the same on their mittens and
gloves.  Baltic etnic and northern European ethnic mittens and glvoes are
built
this way. In addition, they have tight fitting, ribbed cuffs.  They were made
of wool

Spanish and Mediterannean gloves (circa 16 and 17th centuries) have flared
cuffs. They were made of cotton and silk, as well as wool.  The Spanish gloves
I have seen pictured were all eccesiastical gloves, and bore religious symbols
on the backs of the hands.  They were also white, the design being done in red
or some other color. The purpose of these gloves is apparently ritual, whereas
the northern gloves were practical.  The eccesiastical gloves were copied in
secular dress where they were an affection of the upper classes, the climate
not requiring such protection.  Be ware, few gloves survive, and so the
historians specualte from limited data.  On the other hand, gloves are one of
the more common knitted articles to survive.  Knitted garments being used as
underwear and work clothes, they were usually worn to shreds, and nobody thought it worth perserving them. 

So much for gloves.

Yours in service,

Awilda Halfdane
bright hills, atlantia
sgj%ctj.uucp at w3ffv.ampr.org


From: ileaf!io!kopf!eisen at EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Carl West x4449)
Date: 8 May 90 18:56:50 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism

Unto Wraith in particular and all in general,

Something you said:
" Milady, An Excellent Pattern Exists, It is a Vogue Pattern in a Prom
accesories Set, I have seen the pattern echoed ina pattern set given to me on
period Gloves, so it is a reasonable one..."
makes me shudder.
  Asserting that some modernly available pattern is a good 
period pattern because it was included in *someone's* set of period patterns
is a dangerous thing to do unless you know that that `someone' has done at
least
a bit of research on the subject. We already have loads of mis-information
being passed on as truth or good ideas because `sombody said it'.

If instead you could say: *
" Milady, the Vogue pattern #xxxx is quite period, one very like it is to be
found in Lady Phalangia's collection of period glove patterns, accompanied by
a close-up of a painting by Brughel/Holbein/Durer showing what appears to be
a glove of the same pattern..." 

with that I would feel secure enough to go ahead and make them and look
forward having only scholarly discussions about my gloves from then on.

Frydheric

* THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE, IT IS NOT FOR REAL, DO NOT QUOTE IT!!


From: kate at micor.ocunix.on.ca (Kate Sanderson)
Date: 21 Oct 91 02:20:46 GMT
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.

Unto the gentle folk of the Rialto, does Lady Kasia Blackfox
send greetings (Actually, it's Kate Sanderson sending greetings,
because Kasia wouldn't've heard of Nova Scotia!)
  Anyway. As it happens, I just read a book about the knitting
technique that Arastorm (sp?) refers to.  You knit a pair of
wool mittens several sizes too big, and then you felt them.
This involves putting the mittens in very hot water, and rubbing
them over a felting board (looks somewhat like a washboard, only
with slightly sharper edges.) You keep doing this until they've
shrunk enough to fit. Apparently (I haven't tried the technique
yet, though I intend to), this results in water resistent 
and wind resistent mitts that keep you warm even when soaking
wet (a quality which I am sure Maritime fishermen appreciate)
                         Kate
P.S. Before someone makes a joke about how could you be a 
non maritime fisherman, Canadians use the word "the Maritimes"
to refer to (most of) the eastern provinces.  :)


From: jakos at DPW.COM (Ceilene Jakos)
Date: 22 Oct 91 16:27:22 GMT
Organization: DP&W, New York, NY

If memory serves, the process Lady Kasia refers to in her
waterproof mittens was (and still very much is) done with
woven wool as well.  The finished product is called LODEN,
which is, in effect, boiled wool.  It is very warm and
repels water--when saturated it does still retain warmth.
Amazing.

                              Thea


From: DRS at UNCVX1.BITNET ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Date: 3 Dec 91 03:32:00 GMT

For further information on period construction techniques, see
if you can find (probably via interlibrary loan from a school with
a textiles specialty)

Flury-Lemberg, Mechthild; _Textile Conservation and Research, a
documentation of the textile department on the occasion of the
twentieth anniversary of the Abegg Foundation_; Bern: Abegg-Stiftung,
1988.

Its filled with pictures and drawings showing original articles and
the steps taken to preserve them - which often means taking them
apart to clean (giving good pattern examples - some are even
drafted to [metric] scale).  Lots of discussion of materials used.
Articles include tapestries, flags, embroidery, garments (including
knit gloves of the 15th century, if memory serves, and shoes with
cork soles) a full Landesknecht uniform - the color pictures are
glorious - 16th century shirts, and all kinds of neat stuff.
This is a fun book, especially if you are interested in clothing
construction.

     Robyyan Torr d'Elandris                Dennis R. Sherman
     Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill        Chapel Hill, NC
     Atlantia                               drs at uncvx1.bitnet
                                            drs at uncvx1.oit.unc.edu


From: Ann Fairburn (12/9/95)
To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com
Looking for Gloves pattern

Greetings,

In article <9511231447.AA07670 at mail.fonorola.net>,
Francois Leclerc <Leclerc at farabi.com> wrote:
>Having miserably failed trying to make my own glove pattern. I would 
>like to know if anybody has a reference for leather gloves pattern. 
>
   Try the book _Make Your Own Gloves_ By Gwen Emlyn-Jones ISBN
0-684-14105-1 Published in 1974. You can get it through 
interlibrary loan. She shows how to measure, make the pattern, 
and stitch them up. She also has pictures of some elizabethan 
gloves, and a short history of gloves.

Richenda


From: jorahn at aol.com (Jorahn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Gloves
Date: 22 Dec 1995 17:33:56 -0500

To those interested in making or knowing about period gloves:

I have been collecting information on medieval gloves for going on 7 years
now.  I am presently in the process of writing my own book on the same
topic.  I have made two trips to England and have video taped some good
close-up shots of stitching on various 15th century gloves in the V&A
museum.  My next planned trip is in 1997.  I am always looking for
additional research sources.  I am interested in corresponding with others
who share the same interest.  If you are that person or know someone who
would be interested, please contact me at address below or via e-mail.

Jorunn Ni Lochlainn                             Jorahn at AOL.COM
a.k.a. Cathie Brailey
2263 S. Quentin Way, F201
Aurora, CO  80014


From: Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS.reno.nv.us (Barbara Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gloves
Date: 27 Dec 1995 23:22:25 GMT
Organization: Great Basin Internet Services, Reno, NV

In article <4bi7ho$c5v at miwok.nbn.com>, Morgan Campbell <morgan at nbn.com> says:
>Do you have any information on period falconry gloves? If so 
>please let me know.                                            
>                  Lord Morgan the Falconer.
>
Please check out the glove on Distant Caravan Web site:
     http://www.greatbasin.com/~caravan/

The current price on the gloves is $25.00 a pair. Unfortunately due to 
price increases they will go up to $27.00 Janurary 1st. 

Where they are not falconry gloves I believe they could be adapted to fit 
your needs.

  Barb Morgan, e-mail: Barb at DISTANT-CARAVANS.reno.nv.us                   
  aka: Amaryllis Alexandrea de Lacey                                      
  Distant Caravans: http://www.greatbasin.com/~caravan/                   


From: "ches" <ches at io.com>
To: ansteorra at eden.com (6/13/97)
Subject: Gloves
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:17:37 -0500

Ok the new Glove making web page under heavy construction is up. Please send book titles and comments about said books so that I may add them the list and patterns that you have used in the past, where from and good points and bad points. The one I have is one that has evolved over the years for me taken from a pair that I took apart. I have a few others but I am waiting for permissions and such since I have alter them considerably to get them to work properly. The book list is compiled from two different FAQ's from the
web and some personal books.

There is no historical proof for my pattern or technique other than nuns from a long gone Catholic school started it all for me. The historical part will come in time as my research gets further along. Still until I can take apart a pair from XXXX year I will not call it for real in any way shape or form.

www.io.com/~ches/gloves.html.

the gifs are shrunk to look better in the document but you can view them in a
larger size by entering their urls:

webgif/glove.gif
webgif/fingerc.gif
webgif/fingerd.gif
webgif/thumb.gif

Ches


Subject: ANST - gloves
Date: Fri, 29 May 98 14:01:22 MST
From: ches <ches at io.com>
CC: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

I have just updated my web page on gloves with links of where you can find
some of the books and articles. I have two new patterns that i will be
uploading tonight.

http://www.io.com/~ches/gloves.html

Ches


Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:54:44 -0500
From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" <meistern at netusa1.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Fur linings

On the fur linings thing, I was looking at a new book last night that our
little library just got and just happened upon a picture of a pair of
leather 3-fingered gloves on page 49 (more like mittens) that were
fur-lined from 1498...probably too late a period for what you were looking
into.  The book is called "Dress in the Middle Ages" by Francoise
Pinponnier & Perrine Mane, published by Yale Univ Press, ISBN:
0-300-06906-5.  Sadly, almost every photo was in black & white and not very
large.  But, it looks to be a promising book for some research.  It had
what looked like an extensive bibliography (which I didn't look at, but
noted it was several pages long).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schoenborn, OL
Seneschale of the Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana)
Middle Kingdom


Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:15:40 -0700
From: "J. A. Smith" <jasmith at caverns.com>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Costuming query

From: kgarner1 at ix.netcom.com <kgarner1 at ix.netcom.com>
>Does anyone out there know when the fur muffs came into existence? I'm
>thinking of the ones that you always see in ice-skating pictures from the 
>early part of the century.
>
>Julian ferch Rhys

It seems to me, I remember reading in From Her Majasety's Back (I think) a
muff was given to one of Queen's Elizabeths Ladies-in-Waiting .  I will try
to find it and send page number and isbn #.

Lady Renna of Battersea, Caer Mithin Halle, Outlands


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:42:21 -0600
From: "Cynthia Bucheger" <dragonlair at wireweb.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Costuming query

In Tudor Costume and Fashion by Norris, pg 612, in an accounting of
Elizabeth I's wardrobe, dated 1600, there is a listing of a Muff, or
snoskyn or snuftkin.  It's described as being introduced toward the end
of her reign.  Picture evidence is scarce, but there is a minature dated
1590's that has a muff in it, sketch of which looks like the typical
muff.  Norris goes on to describe snoskyns given to Elizabeth as gifts,
made of 'saten' and perfumed leather, embroidered with venice gold,
silver and silk.  another snoskyns gift is a pair, one for each hand,
made of 'cloth of silver, embroidered all over with flowers and
braunches of Venice, silve and silk of sondry colors.'

Alexandria


Subject: Gloves
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:44:28 -0500
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
Organization: Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia, and the GDH
To: medieval-leather at egroups.com

Varju at aol.com wrote:
> magnusm at ncsu.edu writes:
> << Ciba (Latour): #61 GLOVES..Badge of Office..Glove-making Centres..
>  Manufacture..Modish Changes in Glove Fashions; 1947 5b

This one appears to be fairly excellent. However, the only patterns
I see are pictures from Diderots' Encyclopedia, which is later 18th
Century. As far as medieval gloves, and later periods, there are very
frequent pictures, and at least 33 books mentioned in the bibliography.
Mentions go back to 1st century bc, and one of the first pictures is
an early tenth century glove (crocheted) of an abbot from the Musee
de Cluny Paris. There are extensive leather manufacturing details
in it, including the use of flour, egg whites, and olive oil to
whiten the leather, and prevent it from shrinking.

As far as finding one. I searched the web for months. I really suggest'
you folks Interlibrary Loan these. It's a whole lot cheaper and easier.
Look under Ciba Reviews. This is number 61 Gloves, Basle, Oct. 1947.

It has about 40 pages, and contains little modern stuff like the tent
issue did. A very good little history overall.

They seem to be in University Libraries pretty much all over, or so
we determined on SCA Arts a while back. A Big Discussion.

Magnus


Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:16:16 -0500
From: Robar <mortis at ctwok.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
To: dehring <dehring at iserv.net>
Subject: Re: Gloves

dehring wrote:
> I’m looking into doing gloves as a gift for a friend this Christmas. my
> question is what were the gloves perfumed with? If I do them in leather
> (or a fabric) i dont want it to cause  the material to rot. I have seem alot
> of references of perfumed gloves. 
> --
> Caitlyn of Green Castle
> Having a great time in Rimsholt

To perfume a pair of leather gloves, you might take an aromatic oil and
rub it into the skin. For gloves made out of fabric, soak them in a
fragrant water three times, each time letting them hang-dry in between.
Each of these suggestions comes out of "Gloves- Their annals and
associations" Beck,William p. 89. There are two recipes given to make
the fragrant water.

Moira nic Kissock


From: Diana Haven <tantra at optonline.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gloves
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:34:29 GMT

I have found that if I close up a pair of leather gloves with a chunk of
amber in a nice tight box, the leather picks up the lovely scent of
amber within a couple of weeks.


From: zebee at zip.com.au (Zebee Johnstone)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gloves
Date: 23 Jun 1999 12:04:13 GMT
Organization: Zip Internet Professionals Pty Ltd

DSparks698 <dsparks698 at aol.com> wrote:
>  The Companions of the Order of the Gage (Kingdom of AEthelmearc Grant-level
>fighting award) are seeking a affordable source of  black, non-fighting,
>gloves(In the medieval pattern).The gloves are the outward symbol of the Order,
>and are given as the award.Consequently we need to find a source to provide
>them.

What's "the medieval pattern" to you?

Long cuffs?

Around here you can buy something called "mig welding gloves" which
are a sturdy soft leather glove with a shortish cuff that is very
easily extended with cloth such as velvet.  The gloves are not black
but take dye fine.

Try the local welding supply shop.

Silfren


From: mackendrick at hotmial.com (Gregor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gloves
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:03:02 GMT
Organization: Lakehead University

On 23 Jun 1999 12:04:13 GMT, zebee at zip.com.au (Zebee Johnstone) wrote:
>DSparks698 <dsparks698 at aol.com> wrote:
>>  The Companions of the Order of the Gage (Kingdom of AEthelmearc Grant -level
>>fighting award) are seeking a affordable source of  black,non-fighting,
>>gloves(In the medieval pattern).The gloves are the outward symbol of the
>>Order, and are given as the award.Consequently we need to find a source to
>>provide them.
>
>snip<

>Try the local welding supply shop.

I can back this one up -- I was looking for a nice pair of gloves and
finally found them at a welding shop!

Mine have a split-deerskin glove attached to sturdy leather cuff,
giving the gaunlet style, and came in a sort of off-white.  I added a
small leather strap to the gauntlet to keep it in order (I use them as
archery gloves) and dyed them -- worked wonderfully.

Definately worth the $8 I paid for them.....

Gregor
Mare Amethystinum
Northshield


From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at calcna.ab.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gloves
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:49:14 -0600
Organization: Calgary Community Network Assoc.

Don't know if anyone else has suggested this, but one way to impart scent
to the gloves without actually pouring anything wet on/in them would be to
put little bags of sachet or potpourri into the box that that they are
stored in.  (You do store your gloves in a box, no? <grin>)

Aldreada


From: "yaz pistachio" <liran at neteze.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: documenting gloves
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 02:17:53 GMT

"Teresalphi" <teresalphi at aol.com> wrote
> I would like to make period gloves but have not found information on period
> ones other than very generalized descriptions that they have been around for a
> long time.  Does anyone know a good source for documenting gloves?
>
> Lady Sanche

the new "Piecework" magazine has an article on gloves.  it shows several
leather late-period gauntlets (with *gorgeous* cuffs) & at least one earlier
period knitted glove.  it discusses the history of gloves in general terms &
includes a pattern for knitted gloves based on the period example
(interestingly, period gloves occasionally had "rings" knitted onto the
fingers.  even more interestingly, i noticed that there was no ring shown on
the middle, longest finger which struck me because i've heard it reported
that 'they' didn't wear rings on that finger & since i heard that, i haven't
been able to find a single example of someon with a ring on that finger.)

if the article isn't detailed enough, they give a list of reference books at
the end.

Liran
(Sinead Lauren Aithene Armagh, OHA, CIM)


From: noramunro at aol.comclutter (Alianora Munro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: documenting gloves
Date: 22 May 2000 01:23:09 GMT

"yaz pistachio" <liran at neteze.com> writes:
>the new "Piecework" magazine has an article on gloves.  it shows several
>leather late-period gauntlets (with *gorgeous* cuffs) & at least one earlier
>period knitted glove. 

The knitted glove in question is from 1565 -- it's not that much earlier.  ;-) 
There's also a nineteenth-century knitted glove pictured in the article.

On knitted gloves generally, see Richard Rutt _A History of Handknitting_ and
to a lesser extent Irena Turnau, "The Diffusion of Knitting in Medieval Europe"
in _Cloth and Clothing in the Middle Ages_ (ed. N.B. Harte and K.G. Ponting). 
W.H. St John Hope, "The Episcopal Ornaments of William of Wykeham and William
of Waynfleet, sometime Bishops of Winchester, and of certain Bishops of St
David's" _Archaeologia_ 60 (1907): 465-492 is not the work of a textile
scholar, but does have black and white photos of a pair of knitted gloves
alleged to have belonged to William of Wykeham, a fourteenth-century English
bishop.  If you can track it down, W.B. Redfern's _Royal and Historic Gloves
and Shoes_ (1904) has photos of some sixteenth-century leather gloves.  Some of
his dating and identifications may be inaccurate, but the photos are useful in
conjunction with other research..

Many of the standard works on historic costuming have material on gloves in
them, too.  I'd check out some of the volumes in the History of Dress series
just for starters.

> it discusses the history of gloves in general terms &
>includes a pattern for knitted gloves based on the period example

Be careful of what that article says.  Nancy Bush does lovely knitting designs,
but she's not a textile historian, and some of the things in that article
strike me as being outright wrong, or at least indefensible.  For example, she
asserts (without documentation) that during the Middle Ages, gloves were worn
while eating to keep the fingers clean.  Well, I could have missed something,
but I've looked at the surviving etiquette books pretty closely and it seems to
me that one is instructed to wipe one's greasy fingers on napkins, not to
protect them from becoming greasy with gloves.

An entertaining coupla' pages:  G.F. Jones, "Twey Mytenes, As Mete," _Modern
Language Notes 67 (1952): 512-516.

Gloves are everywhere in medieval art and literature -- once I started looking
for them, I found them all over.

>(interestingly, period gloves occasionally had "rings" knitted onto the
>fingers.  even more interestingly, i noticed that there was no ring shown on
>the middle, longest finger which struck me because i've heard it reported
>that 'they' didn't wear rings on that finger & since i heard that, i haven't
>been able to find a single example of someone with a ring on that finger.)

Hrm -- this sets off alarm bells in my head, too.  Just at the moment I can't
pull out any portrait which shows gloves on the middle finger, but the Wykeham
gloves *do* have rings knitted on every finger, including the middle finger,
and the thumb.

Alianora Munro, Bright Hills, Atlantia
Having had sufficient experience with princes, now seeking a frog
http://hometown.aol.com/noramunro/Chateau/index.htm
clear up the clutter to reply


Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] leather gloves
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:55:41 -0400
From: "Lefkowitz, Gail" <lefkowitzga at anes.upmc.edu>
To: "'medieval-leather at egroups.com'" <medieval-leather at egroups.com>

On August 16, Joel asked:
>    Is there a best place to go to find information on making leather
> gloves?  Any suggestions are welcome, web or print materials.

It depends on the type of gloves you want to make.  Modern glove
patterns and books on glovemaking are available, but do not identify
pre-17th century shapes and techniques.

In addition to the book on modern-glovemaking by Emlyn-Jones that Ken
Nye recommends, I have found the following to be useful:

Eunice Close. How to Make Gloves. Charles T. Branford Co., Boston,
1950.

Natalie S. Woolf. Glovemaking for Beginners. McKnight & McKnight
Publishing Co., Bloomington, IL.

For leather gloves that are pre-17th century, there are at least three
distinct patterns to choose from with varying lengths and gauntlet
styles.  There are also cloth and fiber patterns and mittens.

For basic glove shapes:

The first has separate thumb and pinky pieces.  There is a cloth
version of this shape in the Kunsthistoriche museum, attributed to
Frederick II, Holy Roman Emporer in the 12th century.  A 14th century
trank (main body piece) with this shape was dug up from a site in
Poland.  In both cases, I have not been able to determine the shape of
the pinky piece, and the existance of fourchettes (the pieces between
the fingers) is interpolated rather than confirmed.

The second is a three-fingered work glove.  Three references to this
pattern include the Luttrell Psalter (a 14th century manuscript), a
stone carving in "Dress in the Middle Ages" by Francoise

Piponnier & Perrine Mane, and personal conversations with an armorer
named Robert Macpherson, who viewed them inside gauntlets in the
Metropolitan Museum in New York City.  Imagine the Star Trek Vulcan
greeting gesture and you will get an idea of the shape of these
gloves.

The third is based on an out-of-period source; Diderot's Encyclopedia
(18th century).  The shape of the man's gloves from this source is
comparable to gloves in 16th century portraits.  The major difference
between this pattern and modern gloves is the shape of the thumb piece
and gouch (thumbhole), a round quirk that is inserted into the
thumbhole, and the absence of three lines of stitching on the backs of
the hand.  The three lines of stitching came into popular use in the
19th century, though there are 16th and 17th century gloves that show
it's roots.  I have been working on a handout for creating a pattern
and sewing these gloves, but it is still a long way from ready.

If anyone is interested, there will be a SCA costuming symposium in
Bloomington, IN, on November 4.  I will be teaching a class on Gloves
in the Middle Ages and Renaissance at that symposium.  More
information on the event is available at
http://www.sff.net/people/lindaf.

Gail Lefkowitz
Pittsburgh, PA

known in the SCA as
Ts'vee'a bas Tseepora Levi, OP, OL, etc.
Barony-Marche of the Debatable Lands, AEthelmearc


Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 00:10:18 -0400
From: Cozit/Liz <cozit at comcast.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: glovers needles

Someone was looking for glovers needles (for leather) and having trouble 
finding them.  I *knew* I knew of a place that had more selection than 
JoAnns, and ran across my bookmark tonight.

It's www.woodedhamlet.com  look under the "threads, pins, needles" page.

*g* Now to find the glove pattern and kidskin resources and I'll have 
yet another summer project...

-Elisabeth


From: Gina Worthy <sojourner999 at hotmail.com>
Date: December 6, 2004 12:43:31 AM CST
To: stefan at florilegium.org
Subject: new glove group at yahoo

I was pointed to your group by another glover, and have been enjoying your files very much. It occurred to me that those who were interested in only gloves didnt' have a site to go to to discuss gloving with others, so I began one. Would you please post the url in your messages groups?
I would appreciate it. It's not necessarily for SCA members only, but for all sorts of gloves, but it will, hopefully, be a serious glovers resource page...
thanks!

Glovers of the Society of St. Anne
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/societyofstanne/?yguid=86350943

It is just starting, so am hoping to get a good group here.

Gina  Worthy


From: "Chiara Francesca" <chiara.francesca at gmail.com>
Date: June 29, 2009 2:01:12 AM CDT
To: "'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'" <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Glove pattern

<<< I wanted to type this before I forgot to do it again. Does anyone
have/know of a good glove pattern for ladies? I'd appreciate it.

-Lady Grainne Kathleen NicPadraig MacDaniel >>>

Actually, one of the big three finally answered our letter writing campaign from a few years ago (yes, I actually got through to one of the archivists!) to reprint an amalgam of their glove patterns.

It is here: http://www.butterick.com/item/B5370.htm

For those of you that have taken my class you will see that the patter is very similar. You only need to taper the fingers to points and choose a cuff you can live with or make your own. :)

As soon as I work though it and get the correct permissions I will post my photo documentation of working through one of the patterns on glove.org.

Chiara Francesca


To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Split-finger mittens
Posted by: "Quokkaqueen" quokkaqueen at hotmail.com quokkaqueen
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:09 pm ((PDT))

<<< Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I might find good documentation for woven, fulled mittens? >>>

You didn't specify a time period, but there are three Viking Age mittens from Iceland made from wool. (One of them is mentioned in Hald, but hidden in the naalbinding chapter.) 
Two form a pair of child's mittens, apparently they were connected with a string. While the third (mentioned in Hald) is an adult mitten that were darned with pieces of wool to make a fake fur on the inside for extra warmth.

See: http://medieval-baltic.us/vikmitten.html
There is a bibliography at the bottom of the webpage, but it is rather short, sorry. When I wrote to the National Museum of Iceland, they said there has been very little published about them.

~Asfridhr


To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Split-finger mittens
Posted by: "Karen" karen_larsdatter at yahoo.com Karen_Larsdatter
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:09 pm ((PDT))

Oda asked:
<<< Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I might find good
documentation for woven, fulled mittens? >>>

None of the mittens I've found at http://larsdatter.com/gloves.htm are fulled 
and woven (though there is at least one that's knit), "split" style or 
otherwise.  There are a few images of the split mittens showing them in colors 
-- see the Luttrell Psalter images -- which could, in theory, have been fabric 
of some sort.

Karen Larsdatter
http://larsdatter.com


To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Split-finger mittens
Posted by: "Quokkaqueen" quokkaqueen at hotmail.com quokkaqueen
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:35 pm ((PDT))

Oops! I forgot another find. 
There are remains of red wool fabric that have been identified as mittens from 14th century Uvdal, Norway.
I've only seen second-hand references to it though, like here:
http://web.comhem.se/~u41200125/Uvdal31.html

The published reference for it is:
Vedeler, Marianne. 2007. "Klaer og formspråk i norsk middelalder" (Oslo: University of Oslo) ISBN: 9788274772977.

~Asfridhr, the forgetful.

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