gem-sources-msg - 9/27/08

Sources for real and artificial gemstones.

NOTE: See also the files: jewelry-msg, jewlry-storag-msg, pearls-msg, Pearls-Law-art, coronets-msg, beads-msg, amber-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: catmac at flash.NET (Caroline Macanliss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Subject: Where to get the gems for the garb
Date: 19 Dec 1996 00:07:54 -0500

Another good place to look is jewelry supply cataloges. They have lab grown
stones that don't get at all expensive and look nice. You can get most sizes
and cuts of stones- I have several garnets from one that add up to about 3
carets, which there was no way I could afford. 
        Other good places- stage costume suppliers- they have fake anything.
It can get expensive though. 
        Garage sales- people throw away all sorts of stuff. 

From: HPGV80D at prodigy.com (Patricia Hefner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Subject: Where to get the gems for the garb
Date: 19 Dec 1996 23:20:06 GMT

I'm from Meridies and when I was looking for beads for my Byzantine, 
somebody told me the closest place to find "fake" cabachons was someplace 
in New Hampshire.  I went ahead and used the glass beads from the local 
dancewear store. Period? I'm afraid not, but it's affordable. ---Isabelle

From: afn03234 at freenet2.afn.org (Ronald L. Charlotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Subject: Where to get the gems for the garb
Date: 23 Dec 1996 12:23:27 GMT

HPGV80D at prodigy.com (Patricia Hefner) wrote:
> I'm from Meridies and when I was looking for beads for my Byzantine,
> somebody told me the closest place to find "fake" cabachons was someplace
> in New Hampshire.  I went ahead and used the glass beads from the local
> dancewear store. Period? I'm afraid not, but it's affordable. ---Isabelle

Actually, in the sections on glassworking and gems in _On Divers Arts_ 
by Theophilus (12th C.), and _Il libro dell'Arte_ by Cennini (15th C), 
and _The Secretes of Alexis of Piemont_ (16th C.) are discussions of the 
manufacture of such artificial gemstones.  There are also perodic 
references to passing artificial stones off as real in laws, guild 
regulations and other craftsman's treatises of the medieval and 
renaissance eras.

So you are on pretty solid ground with glass "gems", this is yet more 
supported by the finds in _Dress Accessories_ where real precious metals 
and gemstones are far in the minority of finds.

Keeping up with the "Joneses" is eternal, I suppose.
--
     al Thaalibi ---- An Crosaire, Trimaris
     Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
     afn03234 at afn.org

From: "Shawn-Dana" <sds at abacus.abm.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Subject: Where to get the gems for the garb
Date: 23 Dec 1996 19:31:02 GMT

The place in NH is indeed a good source for cabochons, but their *settings*
are what I live for. They are flat backed and in addition to clasping the
stone they also are great for sewing onto garb. I stock up whenever I see
them as I have searched high and low for these settings and *no one* has
them. I use a lot for my Russian garb and it has really paid off. If you
are in need of either the name or phone number of these great folks, let me
know as I have their card at home.

Katya

ps  I've also heard that it was more fashionable to wear fake gems for a
more everyday use and save the real McCoy for special occasions. 

To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com
From: Shawn-Dana Seitler <sds at abacus.abm.com>
Subject: Gems and settings and where to find them
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:29:29 +0000

>> The place in NH is indeed a good source for cabochons, but their *settings*
>> are what I live for.
>
>Please send me the name, address and phone number of this place when you
>find it.
>  Stefan li Rous
>  markh at risc.sps.mot.com
>

Stefan,

Here's the address:

Cabochons
POB 43
S Lyndesboro NH 03082
603-654-2601
Aelfwine and Arastorm

Good hunting!

Katya

From: Mary.Walter at srv.net (Mary Walter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Subject: Where to get the gems for the garb
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 96 10:56:16 GMT

Actually, my household likes to costume and we've had similar problems 
finding garb "gemstones".  We have a mundane business and took advantage of 
coming across a source for  balinese silver and vermille components with 
semi-prescious stones (amethyst, garnet, pearl, peridot, onyx, moonstone and 
citrine).  The prices were surprisingly reasonable.  I do Elizabethan garb and 
have sewn these to bodices, sleeves and skirts with very satisfactory results. 
 Some of the stones even have the period "rose" cut faceting. Many are square 
or retangular  stones in "settings" that will pass nicely as period.   If 
interested, come by and say hello at Estrella as we will be merchanting.  
Otherwise our mundane business can be reached as noted below.

Lorraine de Monteclair
mka Mary Walter
Insights
387 Park
Idaho Falls, Id.
(208) 529-3696

From: William Osterheim <Polydore at worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Subject: Where to get the gems for the garb
Date: 25 Dec 1996 11:25:33 GMT

A place with a good veriety of gems, beads, & etc is

Rio Grande Gems and Findings
7500 Bluewater Road NW
Albuquerque, MN 87121-1962
800-443-6766 (US)
800-253-9738 (Canadian)

They have a large catalog of such things...

Polydore Pike

From: Vesta <vesta at internetcds.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Amber LONG [and other lies the jewelry sellers tell you]
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:35:51 -0700

David M. Razler wrote:
> "Getty" <hilight at pclv.com> wrote:
> | Does any one know of a period means to 'make' amber?  Or for that matter any
> | way to make fake amber?
> | Lady Beatrice
> 1 - complete faux amber - made from one or another thermoplastics or resins
> and passed off as the real thing by bad dealers and artificial by the honest
> ones.

And (cracks knuckles, gets down to business) it's *illegal*. Most of the
American suppliers of pre-made amber are members of AGTA (American Gem
Trade Association). AGTA has a list of codes which they apply to gem
beads, cabochons and faceted stones, so that the purchaser knows
*exactly* what they're getting. Even those who are *not* members of AGTA
-- if they do not label their stones/gems -- they are violating federal
trade laws. This can lead them to lose their business licenses, etc.

As someone else said on this thread CAVEAT EMPTOR.....
 
> 2 - reconstituted or "recon" amber - a mixture of n percent real amber (often
> very low) and n percent modern resins - extends and adds profits, as far as
> bad dealers are concerned. Any dealer claiming that his/her recon is 100%
> amber should be whacked over the head with it, IMHO

I've noticed that, esp. in the SCA, *this* is the amber I see. And it's
being passed off -- perhaps by the unwary, perhaps by the greedy -- as
"natural."  If you can see "chips" in your amber, assume that it is
reconsituted. The merchant may say, and *believe*, that this is natural
amber, but 99% of the time, it's reconstituted.

The larger the piece of amber, the more likely it's "recon." Most of the
time, the strands of chunks, nuggets, chips and mini-chips are genuine,
natural amber. The smaller the chip, the more likely it is to be natural
and genuine.
 
> 3 - addition of inclusions - ....SNIP

Hmmm...I've seen this, too....Unless you can get this stone verified as
natural by a gemologist and the bug verified by a paleontologist
*before* you buy -- don't buy it. Anyone pressuring you to "buy before
it's gone" is probably trying to rip you off.

Oh. Yes.  Since I'm on the subject of gemstones.....

Some other problem stones:  Hematite, Jet and Pearls.

HEMATITE:  approximately 70% of the Hematite that enters this country
comes from Taipei, Hong Kong and the Chinese mainland. This stuff is not
natural. It is created in large factories, and pressed into molds, then
baked, carved and polished. It is 100% created by humans. It matches, in
weight and heft, Hematite. It is economical enough to create even small
beads and chips using this technique.  This creation is *so* like
natural Hematite that even jewelers have problems telling this stuff
apart -- usually only a laboratory chemical analysis can tell you the
difference. 

JET:  a lot of the jet out there is a soft dyed howlite or jasper. It is
*not* true Jet (which is a kind of half-baked coal...).  Most jewelers
can tell you whether what you've got is true Jet. Most of the time,
unless you know the jewelry-seller *and* his-or-her suppliers, I
wouldn't buy jet from anyone in a booth at an SCA event. Go to trade
shows (like Tucson) or gem shows (often at your local fairgrounds) and
buy there.

PEARLS:  *sigh*  Pearls. A real dilemma.  There are two kinds of pearl
oysters in the world: the saltwater kind and the freshwater kind.
Saltwater pearls are *terribly* expensive. Most, if not all, of what
you're going to see in an SCA booth is going to be freshwater pearls.
Now, of freshwater oysters, there are two subsets:  pond oysters and
river oysters.  River oysters give the "rice krispie" shaped pearls that
were so popular a few years ago.

Pond oysters, on the other hand, give potato-to-round shaped pearls,
which look very much like the pearls in period portraits. They come in
three natural colors: ivory/cream, peach, and mauve (a dusky purply
color). All white pearls are bleached -- there are *no* natural white
pearls. In addition, the silvery-grey pearls are dyed or irradiated --
probably irradiated. They may look like the Taihitain blacks, though
probably nobody on this newsgroup could afford the blacks....;)

Be very careful when buying pearls. Almost all of them will be cultured,
so many businesses don't keep the pearl nucleus inside the pearl very
long (fast turnaround means more $$). So they yank out pearls that have
only been inside an oyster for 6 mos. to a year. (Some pearlgrowers *do*
longer, but they're the ethical ones -- you'll pay more for them, too.)
This results in pearls with a *very* thin coating of nacre (that pretty
shiny stuff). In addition, after bleaching, some pearls have pitted
surfaces (unseen by the naked eye). The unethical will tumble those
pearls with wax to coat and smooth them.

So you end up with pearls that look mighty pretty but only last a year
before turning dull and flat. And if you've spent upteen million hours
sewing those pearls onto a gown, that's gonna piss you off....

All I can say is, ask the booth keeper who their supplier is (they may
not want to tell you, you may have to be insistent). I can personally
recommend (though I won't guarantee!) the quality of materials from
RioGrande, Olympia, Fire Mountain and Shipwreck. They are even-handed
companies who, when they make mistakes, do their best to correct them.
All have recalled products which were incorrectly advertised; all have
sent out replacement products for substandard materials. While the other
companies specialize in certain products, RioGrande has
*everything*.....

Vesta, climbing down off the soapbox
-- 
Domina Vesta Antonia Aurelia
An Tir -- Summits -- Cavernsgate

Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:35:00 -0800
From: DDFr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Amber LONG [and other lies the jewelry sellers tell you]

In article <36B350EC.3104 at internetcds.com>, vesta at internetcds.com wrote:
>All I can say is, ask the booth keeper who their supplier is (they may
>not want to tell you, you may have to be insistent). I can personally
>recommend (though I won't guarantee!) the quality of materials from
>RioGrande, Olympia, Fire Mountain and Shipwreck. They are even-handed
>companies who, when they make mistakes, do their best to correct them.

I have dealt with both Rio Grande and Fire Mountain over the years (not
for amber--junky stuff that falls apart after a few centuries) and been
happy with both. Fire mountain used to carry sapphire platelets from
Montana that were the only way I ever discovered to cut real sapphire cabs
of a decent size at a tolerable price. I don't know if they still have
them.

David/Cariadoc
-- 
David Friedman
DDFr at Best.com
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:37:48 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Gemstones in pottery

Kernowcraft in England has carbocons at good prices, good enough for
pottery (they do faceted too but that isn't correct for medieval stuff)
 I dodn't know if you are wanting huge stuff but:

Sapphires 3mm 2.25 pounds, in blue/lemon/violet/ pink/peach

Star rubies 6.5-7mm 8.20 pounds 

Tumbled rubies from 4.35 and there are loads more 

Worth looking at.

Their email is kernowcr at globalnet.co.uk
And their web address is: www.web-direct.co.uk/kernowcraft

Mel

Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:46:47 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - semi-precious stones and pearls

At 12:38 AM -0500 6/13/00, Stefan li Rous wrote:
>Is it possible to get second-grade, non-jewel grade precious
>stones that would work fine for this? Or is there even
>such a thing?

I missed the original message, but I assume you are trying to get 
gemstones for culinary purposes--perhaps for Maistre Chiquart's 
chicken soup or something similar.

1. "Precious stones" is a technical term--diamond, ruby, saphire, 
emerald, are the usual ones on the list. I have a vague impression 
that some people include pearls, which aren't really stones at all.

2. Generally speaking, junk grade precious and semiprecious stones 
are available and cheap--meaning dollars an ounce or even dollars a 
pound. Typically that means opaque stones of uneven color, when the 
valuable ones are clear and pure of color. Many semiprecious stones, 
such as lapis and malachite, are available at that sort of price in 
qualities that are good enough to be worth cutting.

Commercial grade pearls are more than that, but still cheap compared 
to what you buy in a jewelery store.

The Cleopatra story is that she is supposed to have dissolved a very 
valuable pearl in wine. I gather it doesn't work, unless the wine is 
pretty close to vinegar, and even then slowly--probably days not 
minutes according to my lady wife, who dissolved a lot of calcium 
carbonate in strong vinegar in an earlier stage of her life.

David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/

<the end>