finger-rings-msg - 7/10/02 Medieval finger rings. NOTE: See also the files: finger-rings-lnks, Signet-Rings-art, ear-rings-msg, jewelry-msg, gem-sources-msg, pearls-msg, metalworking-msg, metals-msg, jewlry-storag-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Celtic Rings Date: Sun, 19 Jun 94 22:47:56 EDT Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op holmbeck at icarus.cs.weber.edu (Laura Holmbeck) writes: > I posted this in another group, but it was suggested that I try it here. > > Does anyone know of a good source to contact to have Celtic Rings > crafted/commissioned? > -- Laura Jan Wyman, of Crafty Fox Artworks, is an excellent silversmith whose work is quite beautiful. She does excellent historic reproductions as well as contemporary pieces. She can be reached at: Crafty Fox Artworks 603 642-8584 Megan == In 1994: Linda Anfuso non moritur cujus fama vivat In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644 YYY YYY meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY | |____n____| From: imperial at delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Celtic Rings Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 01:03:29 -0500 Laura Holmbeck writes: >I posted this in another group, but it was suggested that I try it here. > >Does anyone know of a good source to contact to have Celtic Rings > crafted/commissioned? Yes, Call the shop of Art Dennis at 619-329-3231 in Desert Hot Springs, CA. You could e-mail a # or address and I'll pass it along. He does great work. From: tigranes at aol.com (Tigranes) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Where to get crest jewelry made? Date: 25 Feb 1995 20:57:19 -0500 There are two places I know of for signet rings. One is called Heraldry House, and is available through established lisenced jewelry stores. The other is Unique Jewelry, 5301 Anchorage, El Paso TX 79924 Prices are comparable for either source. From: david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Where to get crest jewel Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 13:51:00 -0400 Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245 RU>I would like to know where I can order rings (for two adult male sons /1 RU>gold) with family crest. RU> R Underwood Two answers: 1) there is a company advertising in TI that they do it - I have no idea of the quality of their work good or bad. 2) If the College of Heralds sees fit to accept my arms, I plan to carve my own jeweler's wax ring, after discovering a local jeweler has a full lost wax shop and wouldn't mind casting my work for a price. Many jewelers are cutting down on inventory by stocking samples, pre-molded wax findings and carving and casting custom work as ordered. Aleksandr the Traveller [david.razler at compudata.com] From: lhernsen at freenet.columbus.oh.us (Luinrandir Hernsen) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Your device as a signet ring Date: 21 Dec 1995 18:08:39 -0500 Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet I am a silversmith in the SCA... i can turn your device into a Silver signet ring for $35.... if you want color inlay ad $5 per color... Gold prices available on request. -- We make silver jewelry for wholesale and retail. We also make metaphysical items for you, your group or shop. for more info, reply E-mail. To be put on our mail list send proof of business for wholesale or $1 for retail to: =========Luinrandir Hernsen, P.O.Box 141324, Columbus, Ohio 43214========= From: clemke at whc.net (Carl Lemke) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Wedding rings Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 00:03:00 GMT Organization: All USENET -- www.net-link.com On 6 May 1996 17:46:06 GMT, kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (kellogg) wrote: > In honor of our tenth wedding anniversary, my wife and I >are renewing our vows with a recreation of a period wedding. We >have found an 11th century rite that we like, and it involves a >blessing of rings which are later exchanged. My question, any >idea what 11th century wedding rings looked like? Did they use >just any old rings they liked, or were the rings of a specific >style and format? > > Avenel Kellough Being a professional jeweler, I get asked this question frequently. I usually give people a short extract on love and marrage rings from an excellent book called "An Introduction to Rings" by Shirley Bury, who is the Keeper, Department of Metalwork for the Victoria and Albert Museum. I'll email you a copy. If any others would like a copy email a request to me. If you would like a copy of my flyers on signet rings and seal send your snail mail address. Carl W. Lemke SCA: Baron Walthari von Harx (AKA: Master Walthari) Carl W. Lemke Unique Jewelry 5301 Anchorage El Paso, TX 79924 Email: clemke at whc.net Heraldic engraving, signet rings, pendant seals, desk seals and period style jewelry. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Wedding rings From: s.krossa at aberdeen.ac.uk (Sharon Krossa) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 14:01:10 +0000 Regarding the use of rings in marriage ceremonies. I earlier stated that I did not know whether wedding rings were used in Scotland, that they may have, or may not. I now have a little more information on this. To wit, I have found a reference to a wedding ring in the Protocol Books of James Young 1485 - 1515 (Scottish Record Society 1952) In an entry dated 14 October 1490: "Instrument narrating that William Clerk, burgess of Canongate, lying in his bed of sickness, declared that Agnes Chalmer, sometime his spouse, left in her testament to John Clerk, her son, four gold rings, a silver girdle of Greenish (?) colourr (varide [sic,?=viride] coloris), weighing five ounces, and a hundred and twenty beads (oracula) of coral with "gaudeis" of silver, and that Marjory Balfour, now his spouse, took into her own hands, without the consent or gift of the said William, that girdle with the beads and "gaudeis" and three of teh said rings; she still kept these goods. ..." Followed by this entry: "The same day and hour the said Marjory Balfour, forasmuch as William Clerk, her spouse, being in extremis, said that she had taken the said goods, declared that the said girdle weighed only three ounces and that she had only one of the rings, which had been used in her marriage (quod ipsa non habuit unum de predictis annulis uno excepto cum quo ipse Willelmus ipsam Marjoriam disponsavit); ..." These are apparently translations from James Young's original Latin, and I'm afraid my Latin is a bit rusty so I'm not sure if the Latin quoted concerning the ring really does mean it was given in marriage or not (I'm sure our Latin experts will let us know, though! ;-) Anyway, it would seem from this that at least some people did use a (gold) ring in marriage, or at least one was given to the woman, in Scotland in the late 15th century. Effric neyn Kenyeoch Vcralte, sharing what little she knows Sharon Krossa: skrossa at svpal.org (permanent) -or- s.krossa at aberdeen.ac.uk (until June 1996) From: gunnora at bga.com (Gunnora Hallakarva) To: ansteorra at eden.com Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:44:22 -0500 Subject: Wedding Rings in Period Here's another interesting tidbit I gathered from the Historical Costuming news list. ==================================== Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:31:49 -0700 From: Trudy Subject: wedding rings i happened to find a book yesterday which discuessed (only a little) wedding rings and on which finger they were worn...i just wrote down some notes, so i'm only paraphrsing here: during the period of george I in england, the wedding ring was usually worn on the thumb (although it was placed on the fourth -- i guess what we consider the ring -- finger during the ceremony). apparently very large wedding rings were fashionable which necessitated waering them on the thumb. in france from the 11th to the 15th centuries, they wre usually on the right hand, middle finger; s in some areas they were on the fourth finger. the guals and the britons of the 1st century wore the ring on the middle finger (didn't say which hand). the order of matrimony in england, pre-freformation said that men should wear their wedding ring on their right hand, women on the left. chirlandajo's frescoes in the curch of santa croce in florence show the betrothal of the ivrgin (make that virgin...no backspace c key here) mary -- the ring is placed by joseph on mary's fourth vinger, right hand. during the betrothal of lucrezia borgia with giv ARGH make that giovanni sforza on feb. 2, 1493, the wedding (engagement) ring was placed on her fourth finger, left hand. and finally, an idea that might explain the custom of wearing the wedding ring on the thumb -- the second digit of the thumb was dedicated to the virgin mary. this is all from "rings for the finger", by george frederick kunz, dover press, 1917 (repreinted i believe late 1940s). i found thi s book used at Green Apple Books on Clement St. in San Francisco (i didn't buy it so it's still there ) if any bay area people are interested. -Kendra Van Cleave ================================== Gunnora Hallakarva Herskerinde From: Katherine Penney Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Irish jewelry HELP! Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 07:14:56 -0800 Organization: Intel Corporation > And finally, the Claddagh is, sadly, OOP....:-/ > > Tiarna Liam O' Maoilriain In "Rings for the Finger", which Dover has so kindly reprinted for us, it is stated that rings very similar to the Claddagh (Fede or Faith Rings) have been used at least since the Classical era (Hands holding each other, hands holding heart, many others) and were VERY popular during the middle ages as betrothal rings. I read a story on the web that a Margaret Joyce married a wealthy Spanish merchant who traded with Galway. He died, leaving her a considerable fortune. Returning to Galway she used her fortune to build bridges from Galway to Sligo, and re-married Oliver Og French, Major of Galway 1596/7. She was rewarded for her good works and charity by an eagle who dropped the original Claddagh ring into her lap. We don't know that the Claddagh itself is OOP, we do know that it has not yet been documented early enough. The Irish are a conquered people, and there is not lots of documentation for us to work with...How many Irish songs (i.e. words and tune) are there that can be DOCUMENTED pre 1600? (heck, I'd even give you 1650 on that one!) Constance Fairfax From: timbeck at ix.netcom.com(Tim Beck) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Irish jewelry HELP! Date: 11 Dec 1996 03:28:40 GMT > I stand corrected. Hopefully, someone *will* be able to > document the Claddagh, though mo Bantiarna and I will go on wearing ours > regardless. :-) > > Tiarna Liam O' Maoilriain The authenticity police are really working overtime if they gripe about claddagh rings. The V&A has a gimmal ring in its jewelry vault that is made up of three thin bands which combined make two hands holding a heart. Looks a whole bunch like a claddagh. And a claddagh looks a whole heck of a lot more historically accurate than most comercially available jewelry (don'cha think?). As for that question about the brooch... it sounds like a type of ring brooch. There was a type produced, at least in England, France, and most probably Ireland inwhich the "ring" terminated at the top in a pair of hands- they kinda look like they are praying (or like the hands at the end of the Ponds skin cream comercial, or the ones on the logo for the Chemical Manufactures of America)... Anyway they were ment to hold a stone. They show up in inventories from the 14th century according to R.W. Lightbown (Medieval European Jewellery). I can't tell you about the gift end of it, could be true, could have been a latter day marketing ploy handed down as tradition. Just a thought... Good Luck, Timothy From: excmairi at aol.com (EXCMairi) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Irish jewelry HELP! Date: 11 Dec 1996 15:55:35 GMT >The V&A has a gimmal ring in its jewelry vault that is >made up of three thin bands which combined make two hands holding a >heart. Looks a whole bunch like a claddagh. The "Past Times" catalog sells copies of the gimmal ring (the hands cover the heart and then swing out to expose it), gold one goes for $125 and a silver version goes for $14.95 (1-800-621-6020). They also show a gold "fede" ring, called a roman betrothal ring, with two hands clasped at the wrist ($89.50). Baroness Mairi Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 14:15:13 -0700 From: Eric & Lissa McCollum To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Wire wrapping Janine Goldman-Pach wrote: > I am interest in beading and wire wrapping, in particular. Can anyone > suggest some sources for period wire wrapping? More importantly, is it > period? > > Inui I have several sources for beading (and would be interested in learning of yours). Wire wrapping is a bit more scarce in my collection, but I suggest looking up the book "Dress Accessories" by Geoff Egan and Frances Pritchard, published by the Muewum of London. The ISBN is 0 11 290444 0. It shows several wire broaches, and wire rings. Here is a quote: "Wire jewellery came back into vogue in England during the 14th century coinciding with the increased output of drawn wire. Finger rings were made from wire with a narrow guage in contrast to the chunky finger rings made from plaited and twisted wire that are common in the Viking period and which occur in England as late as the 1170s on the evidnce of a ring in the Lark Hill Hord. A finger ring made from a short length of brass wire coiled round five times was recovered from a late 13th or early 14th century deposit in London. Both ends were twisted under and over the previous coils to bind them together and to add a decorative finish. Although this was an extremely simple method by which to produce a finger ring, it is not a solitary example. Another in the collection of the museum of London is made from two wires twisted together in opposing directions and finished with an imitation oval bezel, and even a pin could be used, the head substitueded for a stone." Hope this helps. It is an incredible book! Gwendolen Wold From: "Wolf Kestris Rowanwood" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Posey rings Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:03:16 -0500 . I have one, it was exchanged with my husband at our 5th wedding annjiversary and reexchanging of vows. Its from WEst Europe, early 15th Cen., mine is a replica tho, not the real thing.}:) There is a company.. ummm, can't think of the name off hand that has it and the one that says here is my heart, guard it well. if I can find the catalog, I'll post it. -Wolf Tempest Gules wrote: >On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:59:53 -0500, Laura Shumar > wrote: >>I'm looking for sayings suitable for posey rings and other tokens - does >>anyone have suggestions for sources? > >There's always "Vous et nul autre" - "You and no other". >It's my personal favorite, and it's (at least) Elizabethan. > >I'm aware that vous is the formal-or-plural form. I don't know >why it was used in this ring. > >Jost > >>I've found one I like - "A vila mon coeur gardi li mo." This is supposed to >>translate to >>"You have my heart; guard it well." Does anyone know if that's right? Was that >>taken from a period piece? (this was from a catalog, and they didn't list >>their source.) >>Can anyone identify the language? It seems a bit strange to me, because I >>usually see "you have my heart" as "mon coeur avez". >> >>Any help will be appreciated! >> >> -Laura From: "Wolf Kestris Rowanwood" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Posey rings Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:05:57 -0500 A posey ring or love ring, is a simple gold band engraved with a brief sentiment or poem on the outside. They were used as a lover's token, a wedding ring, or simply as a means of showing regard or giving a gift. -Wolf Tasha wrote in message <07ce0c5d.201b4223 at usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com>... > wrote: >>I'm looking for sayings suitable for posey rings and other tokens - does >>anyone have suggestions for sources? >> >{snip} >> >> -Laura >Forgive my ignorance, but what is a posey ring? > >Tasha From: julianna_de_navarre at my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Posey rings Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:37:56 GMT > There's always "Vous et nul autre" - "You and no other". > It's my personal favorite, and it's (at least) Elizabethan. > > I'm aware that vous is the formal-or-plural form. I don't know > why it was used in this ring. > > Regards, > Jost Yes, "vous" is the formal form of "you", or "yous" ;) as in a group. I can see how this could be appropriate, especially in the case of a Champion and his Lady, who aren't necessarily anything other than "platonic". Or, in the second case, exchanged between the members of a group of friends. Just my .02. Juliana From: Medieval Siege Society Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Posey rings Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:37:18 +0100 Organization: MSS Hello Laura, The book you need is "English Posies and Posy Rings" by Joan Evans. It lists about 3000. The language used in many early posy rings was Norman French, with French, Latin and English used in later times. The posies were originally written on the outside, moving to the hidden inside of the ring in later (mid 16th Century onwards) times. These are some examples from the 15th century INSCRIPTION TRANSLATION AMOUR VINCIT OM Love conquers all AMOUR ET CONSTANCE Love and steadfastness ERUNT DUO IN CAME UNA They shall be two in one flesh IEME LA BELLE Love is beautiful IN BONE FAY In good faith MON COR AVEZ Have my heart AUTRE NE VUEIL Desire no other SAUNZ DEPARTIR Without division (all my love is yours) NUL AUTRE None other PRIVATA DI TE MORIO Deprived of thee I shall die POUR AMOUR · SAY DOVE For love so sweet SANS MAL DESYR Without evil wish SEMPER AMEMUS May we love forever UNE DEZIR One desire I hope this helps. Laura Shumar writes >I'm looking for sayings suitable for posey rings and other tokens - does >anyone have suggestions for sources? > >I've found one I like - "A vila mon coeur gardi li mo." This is supposed to >translate to >"You have my heart; guard it well." Does anyone know if that's right? Was >that >taken from a period piece? (this was from a catalog, and they didn't list >their source.) >Can anyone identify the language? It seems a bit strange to me, because I >usually >see "you have my heart" as "mon coeur avez". > >Any help will be appreciated! > > -Laura Andrzej Lubienski Member of The Medieval Siege Society http://www.pomian.demon.co.uk/index.htm (Society website) From: Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Posey rings Date: 29 Mar 2000 02:37:46 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Wolf Kestris Rowanwood wrote: : It is a Gaelic blessing.. : Dean Hardage wrote in message ... :>The blessing finishes 'And until we meet again, may God hold you in the palm :>of his hand.' I don't know the reference either, just how it goes. ... and I'd be willing to bet actual cash money that it doesn't date earlier than the 19th century (heck, I might even be willing to go for 20th century with the right odds). Tangwystyl ********************************************************* Heather Rose Jones hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu ********************************************************** From: "Dennis O'Connor" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Posey rings Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:13:47 -0700 "Medieval Siege Society" wrote ... > The book you need is "English Posies and Posy Rings" by Joan Evans. It > lists about 3000. > > The language used in many early posy rings was Norman French, with > French, Latin and English used in later times. The posies were > originally written on the outside, moving to the hidden inside of the > ring in later (mid 16th Century onwards) times. > > These are some examples from the 15th century > > INSCRIPTION TRANSLATION > AMOUR VINCIT OM Love conquers all By coincidence, the acronym for this is mentioned in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, and is on the inside of my wedding ring. At least, I'm pretty sure it's there, but I haven't had the ring off in a very very long time ... -- Dennis O'Connor dmoc at primenet.com Vanity Web Page http://www.primenet.com/~dmoc/ Edited by Mark S. Harris finger-rings-msg 11 of 12