finger-rings-msg - 7/10/02

Medieval finger rings.

NOTE: See also the files: finger-rings-lnks, Signet-Rings-art, ear-rings-msg,  jewelry-msg, gem-sources-msg, pearls-msg, metalworking-msg, metals-msg, jewlry-storag-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Celtic Rings
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 94 22:47:56 EDT
Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op

holmbeck at icarus.cs.weber.edu (Laura Holmbeck) writes:
> I posted this in another group, but it was suggested that I try it here.
> 
> Does anyone know of a good source to contact to have Celtic Rings 
>  crafted/commissioned?
> -- Laura

Jan Wyman, of Crafty Fox Artworks, is an excellent silversmith whose work 
is quite beautiful. She does excellent historic reproductions as well as 
contemporary pieces. She can be reached at:
      Crafty Fox Artworks
      603 642-8584

Megan
== 
In 1994: Linda Anfuso       non moritur cujus fama vivat
In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive  
In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644

                                YYY     YYY
meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org      |  YYYYY  |
                                |____n____| 

From: imperial at delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Celtic Rings
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 01:03:29 -0500

Laura Holmbeck <holmbeck at icarus.cs.weber.edu> writes:
>I posted this in another group, but it was suggested that I try it here.
>
>Does anyone know of a good source to contact to have Celtic Rings 
> crafted/commissioned?
 
Yes, Call the shop of Art Dennis at 619-329-3231 in
Desert Hot Springs, CA.  You could e-mail a # or address and I'll pass
it along.  He does great work.

From: tigranes at aol.com (Tigranes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Where to get crest jewelry made?
Date: 25 Feb 1995 20:57:19 -0500

There are two places I know of  for signet rings.   One is called Heraldry
House, and is available through established lisenced jewelry stores.

The other is  Unique Jewelry, 5301 Anchorage, El Paso TX 79924  

Prices are comparable for either source.

From: david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Where to get crest jewel
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 13:51:00 -0400
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245

RU>I would like to know where I can order rings (for two adult male sons /1
RU>gold) with family crest.

RU>			R Underwood

   Two answers: 1) there is a company advertising in TI that they do it - I 
have no idea of the quality of their work good or bad. 2) If the College of 
Heralds sees fit to accept my arms, I plan to carve my own jeweler's wax 
ring, after discovering a local jeweler has a full lost wax shop and 
wouldn't mind casting my work for a price. Many jewelers are cutting down on 
inventory by stocking samples, pre-molded wax findings and carving and 
casting custom work as ordered.
                                Aleksandr the Traveller
                             [david.razler at compudata.com] 

From: lhernsen at freenet.columbus.oh.us (Luinrandir Hernsen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Your device as a signet ring
Date: 21 Dec 1995 18:08:39 -0500
Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet

I am a silversmith in the SCA... i can turn your device into a Silver signet
ring for $35.... if you want color inlay ad $5 per color...  Gold prices
available on request.
-- 
We make silver jewelry for wholesale and retail. We also make metaphysical
items for you, your group or shop. for more info, reply E-mail.  To be put
on our mail list send proof of business for wholesale or $1 for retail to:
=========Luinrandir Hernsen, P.O.Box 141324, Columbus, Ohio 43214=========

From: clemke at whc.net (Carl Lemke)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Wedding rings
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 00:03:00 GMT
Organization: All USENET -- www.net-link.com

On 6 May 1996 17:46:06 GMT, kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (kellogg) wrote:
>       In honor of our tenth wedding anniversary, my wife and I
>are renewing our vows with a recreation of a period wedding.  We
>have found an 11th century rite that we like, and it involves a
>blessing of rings which are later exchanged.  My question, any
>idea what 11th century wedding rings looked like?  Did they use 
>just any old rings they liked, or were the rings of a specific 
>style and format?
>
>               Avenel Kellough

Being a professional jeweler, I get asked this question frequently.  I
usually give people  a short extract on love and marrage rings from an
excellent book called "An Introduction to Rings" by Shirley Bury, who
is the Keeper, Department of Metalwork for the Victoria and Albert
Museum.  I'll email you a copy.  If any others would like a copy email
a request to me.  If you would like a copy of my flyers on signet
rings and seal send your snail mail address.
Carl W. Lemke
SCA: Baron Walthari von Harx  (AKA: Master Walthari)

Carl W. Lemke Unique Jewelry
5301 Anchorage
El Paso, TX 79924
Email: clemke at whc.net
Heraldic engraving, signet rings, pendant seals, desk seals and period style jewelry.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Wedding rings
From: s.krossa at aberdeen.ac.uk (Sharon Krossa)
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 14:01:10 +0000

Regarding the use of rings in marriage ceremonies. I earlier stated that I
did not know whether wedding rings were used in Scotland, that they may
have, or may not. I now have a little more information on this. To wit, I
have found a reference to a wedding ring in the Protocol Books of James
Young 1485 - 1515 (Scottish Record Society 1952)

In an entry dated 14 October 1490:

"Instrument narrating that William Clerk, burgess of Canongate, lying in
his bed of sickness, declared that Agnes Chalmer, sometime his spouse, left
in her testament to John Clerk, her son, four gold rings, a silver girdle
of Greenish (?) colourr (varide [sic,?=viride] coloris), weighing five
ounces, and a hundred and twenty beads (oracula) of coral with "gaudeis" of
silver, and that Marjory Balfour, now his spouse, took into her own hands,
without the consent or gift of the said William, that girdle with the beads
and "gaudeis" and three of teh said rings; she still kept these goods. ..."

Followed by this entry:

"The same day and hour the said Marjory Balfour, forasmuch as William
Clerk, her spouse, being in extremis, said that she had taken the said
goods, declared that the said girdle weighed only three ounces and that she
had only one of the rings, which had been used in her marriage (quod ipsa
non habuit unum de predictis annulis uno excepto cum quo ipse Willelmus
ipsam Marjoriam disponsavit); ..."

These are apparently translations from James Young's original Latin, and
I'm afraid my Latin is a bit rusty so I'm not sure if the Latin quoted
concerning the ring really does mean it was given in marriage or not (I'm
sure our Latin experts will let us know, though! ;-)

Anyway, it would seem from this that at least some people did use a (gold)
ring in marriage, or at least one was given to the woman, in Scotland in
the late 15th century.

Effric neyn Kenyeoch Vcralte, sharing what little she knows

Sharon Krossa: skrossa at svpal.org (permanent)
-or- s.krossa at aberdeen.ac.uk (until June 1996)

From: gunnora at bga.com (Gunnora Hallakarva)
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:44:22 -0500
Subject: Wedding Rings in Period

Here's another interesting tidbit I gathered from the Historical Costuming
news list.
====================================
Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:31:49 -0700
From:    Trudy <bambi at RESORT.COM>
Subject: wedding rings

i happened to find a book yesterday which discuessed (only a little) wedding
rings and on which finger they were worn...i just wrote down some notes, so i'm
only paraphrsing here:

during the period of george I in england, the wedding ring was usually
worn on the thumb (although it was placed on the fourth -- i guess what
we consider the ring -- finger during the ceremony).  apparently very large
wedding rings were fashionable which necessitated waering them on the
thumb.

in france from the 11th to the 15th centuries, they wre usually on the right
hand, middle finger; s in some areas they were on the fourth finger.

the guals and the britons of the 1st century wore the ring on the middle
finger (didn't say which hand).

the order of matrimony in england, pre-freformation said that men
should wear their wedding ring on their right hand, women on the left.

chirlandajo's frescoes in the curch of santa croce in florence show
the betrothal of the ivrgin (make that virgin...no backspace c key here)
mary -- the ring is placed by joseph on mary's fourth vinger, right hand.

during the betrothal of lucrezia borgia with giv ARGH make that giovanni
sforza on feb. 2, 1493, the wedding (engagement) ring was placed on her
fourth finger, left hand.

and finally, an idea that might explain the custom of wearing the wedding
ring on the thumb -- the second digit of the thumb was dedicated to
the virgin mary.

this is all from "rings for the finger", by george frederick kunz,
dover press, 1917 (repreinted i believe late 1940s).  i found thi s book
used at Green Apple Books on Clement St. in San Francisco (i didn't buy
it so it's still there ) if any bay area people are interested.

-Kendra Van Cleave
==================================

Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde

From: Katherine Penney <katherinex_penney at ccm.jf.intel.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Irish jewelry  HELP!
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 07:14:56 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation

>         And finally, the Claddagh is, sadly, OOP....:-/
> 
>         Tiarna Liam O' Maoilriain

In "Rings for the Finger", which Dover has so kindly reprinted for us,
it is stated that rings very similar to the Claddagh (Fede or Faith
Rings) have been used at least since the Classical era (Hands holding
each other, hands holding heart, many others) and were VERY popular
during the middle ages as betrothal rings. 

I read a story on the web that a Margaret Joyce married a wealthy
Spanish merchant who traded with Galway. He died, leaving her a
considerable fortune. Returning to Galway she used her fortune to build
bridges from Galway to Sligo, and re-married Oliver Og French, Major of
Galway 1596/7. She was rewarded for her good works and charity by an
eagle who dropped the original Claddagh ring into her lap. 

We don't know that the Claddagh itself is OOP, we do know that it has
not yet been documented early enough.  The Irish are a conquered people,
and there is not lots of documentation for us to work with...How many
Irish songs (i.e. words and tune) are there that can be DOCUMENTED pre
1600?  (heck, I'd even give you 1650 on that one!)

Constance Fairfax

From: timbeck at ix.netcom.com(Tim Beck)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Irish jewelry  HELP!
Date: 11 Dec 1996 03:28:40 GMT

>        I stand corrected. Hopefully, someone *will* be able to
> document the Claddagh, though mo Bantiarna and I will go on wearing ours
> regardless. :-)
>
>        Tiarna Liam O' Maoilriain

The authenticity police are really working overtime if they gripe about
claddagh rings.  The V&A has a gimmal ring in its jewelry vault that is
made up of three thin bands which combined make two hands holding a
heart.  Looks a whole bunch like a claddagh.  And a claddagh looks a
whole heck of a lot more historically accurate than most comercially
available jewelry (don'cha think?).

As for that question about the brooch... it sounds like a type of ring
brooch.  There was a type produced, at least in England, France, and
most probably Ireland inwhich the "ring" terminated at the top in a
pair of hands- they kinda look like they are praying (or like the hands
at the end of the Ponds skin cream comercial, or the ones on the logo
for the Chemical Manufactures of America)...  Anyway they were ment to
hold a stone.  They show up in inventories from the 14th century
according to R.W. Lightbown (Medieval European Jewellery).  I can't
tell you about the gift end of it, could be true, could have been a
latter day marketing ploy handed down as tradition.

                      Just a thought...
                            Good Luck,
                                       Timothy

From: excmairi at aol.com (EXCMairi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Irish jewelry  HELP!
Date: 11 Dec 1996 15:55:35 GMT

>The V&A has a gimmal ring in its jewelry vault that is
>made up of three thin bands which combined make two hands holding a
>heart.  Looks a whole bunch like a claddagh. 

The "Past Times" catalog sells copies of the gimmal ring (the hands cover
the heart and then swing out to expose it), gold one goes for $125 and a
silver version goes for $14.95 (1-800-621-6020).  They also show a gold
"fede" ring, called a roman betrothal ring, with two hands clasped at the
wrist ($89.50).

Baroness Mairi

Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 14:15:13 -0700
From: Eric & Lissa McCollum <ericmc at primenet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Wire wrapping

Janine Goldman-Pach wrote:
> I am interest in beading and wire wrapping, in particular.  Can anyone
> suggest some sources for period wire wrapping?  More importantly, is it
> period?
> 
> Inui

I have several sources for beading (and would be interested
in learning of yours). Wire wrapping is a bit more scarce in
my collection, but I suggest looking up the book "Dress
Accessories" by Geoff Egan and Frances Pritchard, published
by the Muewum of London. The ISBN is 0 11 290444 0.

It shows several wire broaches, and wire rings. Here is a quote:

"Wire jewellery came back into vogue in England during the 
14th century coinciding with the increased output of drawn 
wire. Finger rings were made from wire with a narrow guage 
in contrast to the chunky finger rings made from plaited 
and twisted wire that are common in the Viking period and 
which occur in England as late as the 1170s on the evidnce 
of a ring in the Lark Hill Hord. A finger ring made from a 
short length of brass wire coiled round five times was 
recovered from a late 13th or early 14th century deposit in 
London. Both ends were twisted under and over the previous 
coils to bind them together and to add a decorative finish. 
Although this was an extremely simple method by which to 
produce a finger ring, it is not a solitary example. Another 
in the collection of the museum of London is made from two 
wires twisted together in opposing directions and finished 
with an imitation oval bezel, and even a pin could be used, 
the head substitueded for a stone."

Hope this helps. It is an incredible book!

Gwendolen Wold

From: "Wolf Kestris Rowanwood" <wolffe at onslowonline.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Posey rings
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:03:16 -0500

. I have one, it was exchanged with my husband at our 5th wedding
annjiversary and reexchanging of vows.  Its from WEst Europe, early 15th
Cen., mine is a replica tho, not the real thing.}:)

There is a company.. ummm, can't think of the name off hand that has it and
the one that says here is my heart, guard it well. if I can find the
catalog, I'll post it.

-Wolf

Tempest Gules wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:59:53 -0500, Laura Shumar
><lshumar at netdirect.net> wrote:
>>I'm looking for sayings suitable for posey rings and other tokens - does
>>anyone have suggestions for sources?
>
>There's always "Vous et nul autre"  -  "You and no other".
>It's my personal favorite, and it's (at least) Elizabethan.
>
>I'm aware that vous is the formal-or-plural form.  I don't know
>why it was used in this ring.
>
>Jost
>
>>I've found one I like - "A vila mon coeur gardi li mo."  This is supposed to
>>translate to
>>"You have my heart; guard it well."   Does anyone know if that's right?
Was that
>>taken from a period piece? (this was from a catalog, and they didn't list
>>their source.)
>>Can anyone identify the language?  It seems a bit strange to me, because I
>>usually see "you have my heart" as "mon coeur avez".
>>
>>Any help will be appreciated!
>>
>>    -Laura

From: "Wolf Kestris Rowanwood" <wolffe at onslowonline.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Posey rings
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:05:57 -0500

A posey ring or love ring, is a simple gold band engraved with a brief
sentiment or poem on the outside. They were used as a lover's token, a
wedding ring, or simply as a means of showing regard or giving a gift.

-Wolf

Tasha wrote in message <07ce0c5d.201b4223 at usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com>...
><lshumar at netdirect.net> wrote:
>>I'm looking for sayings suitable for posey rings and other tokens - does
>>anyone have suggestions for sources?
>>
>{snip}
>>
>>    -Laura

>Forgive my ignorance, but what is a posey ring?
>
>Tasha

From: julianna_de_navarre at my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Posey rings
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:37:56 GMT
> There's always "Vous et nul autre" - "You and no other".
> It's my personal favorite, and it's (at least) Elizabethan.
>
> I'm aware that vous is the formal-or-plural form. I don't know
> why it was used in this ring.
>
> Regards,
> Jost

     Yes, "vous" is the formal form of "you", or "yous" ;) as in a
group.  I can see how this could be appropriate, especially in the case
of a Champion and his Lady, who aren't necessarily anything other than
"platonic".  Or, in the second case, exchanged between the members of a
group of friends.  Just my .02.

Juliana

From: Medieval Siege Society <MSS at pomian.nospam.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Posey rings
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:37:18 +0100
Organization: MSS

Hello Laura,

The book you need is "English Posies and Posy Rings" by Joan Evans.  It
lists about 3000.

The language used in many early posy rings was Norman French, with
French, Latin and English used in later times.  The posies were
originally written on the outside, moving to the hidden inside of the
ring in later (mid 16th Century onwards) times.

These are some examples from the 15th century

INSCRIPTION             TRANSLATION
AMOUR VINCIT OM         Love conquers all
AMOUR ET CONSTANCE      Love and steadfastness
ERUNT DUO IN CAME UNA   They shall be two in one flesh
IEME LA BELLE           Love is beautiful
IN BONE FAY             In good faith
MON COR AVEZ            Have my heart
AUTRE NE VUEIL          Desire no other
SAUNZ DEPARTIR          Without division (all my love is yours)
NUL AUTRE               None other
PRIVATA DI TE MORIO     Deprived of thee I shall die
POUR AMOUR · SAY DOVE   For love so sweet
SANS MAL DESYR          Without evil wish
SEMPER AMEMUS           May we love forever
UNE DEZIR               One desire

I hope this helps.

Laura Shumar <lshumar at netdirect.net> writes
>I'm looking for sayings suitable for posey rings and other tokens - does
>anyone have suggestions for sources?
>
>I've found one I like - "A vila mon coeur gardi li mo."  This is supposed to
>translate to
>"You have my heart; guard it well."   Does anyone know if that's right?  Was 
>that
>taken from a period piece? (this was from a catalog, and they didn't list
>their source.)
>Can anyone identify the language?  It seems a bit strange to me, because I 
>usually
>see "you have my heart" as "mon coeur avez".
>
>Any help will be appreciated!
>
>    -Laura

Andrzej Lubienski 
Member of The Medieval Siege Society
http://www.pomian.demon.co.uk/index.htm (Society website)

From: <hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Posey rings
Date: 29 Mar 2000 02:37:46 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley

Wolf Kestris Rowanwood <wolffe at onslowonline.net> wrote:
: It is a Gaelic blessing..

: Dean Hardage wrote in message ...
:>The blessing finishes 'And until we meet again, may God hold you in the palm
:>of his hand.'  I don't know the reference either, just how it goes.

... and I'd be willing to bet actual cash money that it doesn't date
earlier than the 19th century (heck, I might even be willing to go for
20th century with the right odds).

Tangwystyl
*********************************************************
Heather Rose Jones         hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu
**********************************************************

From: "Dennis O'Connor" <dmoc at primenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Posey rings
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:13:47 -0700

"Medieval Siege Society" <MSS at pomian.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote ...
> The book you need is "English Posies and Posy Rings" by Joan Evans.  It
> lists about 3000.
>
> The language used in many early posy rings was Norman French, with
> French, Latin and English used in later times.  The posies were
> originally written on the outside, moving to the hidden inside of the
> ring in later (mid 16th Century onwards) times.
>
> These are some examples from the 15th century
>
> INSCRIPTION             TRANSLATION
> AMOUR VINCIT OM         Love conquers all

By coincidence, the acronym for this is mentioned
in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, and is on the inside
of my wedding ring.

At least, I'm pretty sure it's there, but I haven't
had the ring off in a very very long time ...
--
Dennis O'Connor                    dmoc at primenet.com
Vanity Web Page   http://www.primenet.com/~dmoc/

<the end>