coronets-msg - 1/5/15

Medieval coronets and crowns. SCA coronets and crowns.

NOTE: See also the files: wearng-cornts-msg, jewelry-msg, beads-msg, gem-sources-msg, gloves-msg, headgear-msg, metals-msg, metalworking-msg, Signet-Rings-art.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: zkessin at world.std.com (Zach)
Subject: Re: Crowns, Coronets, & Law
Organization: As little as posible
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 22:29:30 GMT

blackhmr at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Robert M Van Rens) writes:
>>Most of the SCA standards for coronets date to 1660.
>>
>>Guiliam

>Where would one look for such information?  I certainly don't know where to
>begin...any suggestions anyone?

I got it from "A Complete Guide to Heraldry" by Arther Charles
Fox-Davies. Which is a good book to have and not to expensive.
(There is a chapter on coronets)
Guiliam

>Eadric Blackhammer


From: rorice at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Coronets! Help!
Date: 24 Oct 1995 02:26:06 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

	Check out Ottfried Neubecker's "Heraldry: Sources, Symbols, and 
Meanings". It's got a lot of good color pictures of medieval and 
renaissance crowns and coronets. For Byzantine, the definitive source 
would be the frescoes from the Haigia Sophia that show Justinian and 
Theodora. As I remember, the Byzantine crown was more of a bejewelled cap 
with "earrings" hanging off of each side.

	Lothar


Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 18:03:59 -0500
From: theodelinda at webtv.net (linda webb)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Stumpwork

The Victoria and Albert Museum has examples of Elizabethan guildmasters
crowns done in raised embroidery, which is the step before full-blown
stumpwork--These are velvet circlets with embroidery on them.  The one I
recall best has a pattern of leaves and flowers, with a crest in the
center. I believe most, if not all, of the embroidery, including the
raised work, is in metal threads.--Theo


Subject: BG - Bryn Gwlad Coronets
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 23:22:25 MST
From: Dennis and/or Dory Grace <amazing at mail.utexas.edu>
To: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG

Alina wrote:
>About Bryn Gwlad Baronial Coronets. Why not incorporate some, if not all
>insignias or devices that are the barony's and use them on and around the
>baronial coronets. It would definitely help identify and let everyone know
>what barony our baron and baroness are from. Suggestion: Look at all baronial
>devices.Figure out which and what looks the best and with what. End result is
>the design for the baronial coronets.

I rather like this idea. I wonder how well the badge/device elements would
go together in such a way; I bet it would make for a very impressive set of
coronets.

BTW, if anyone is interested, you're welcome to take a close look at our
coronets. I really like the way the pearls were designed and
applied--they're all easily replacable. Small brass tubes were soldered
behind each point, a slightly smaller brass tube slips into the soldered
tube (fitting quite tightly) which accomodates a brass hat pin. Slip a
pearl onto the hat pin, insert a small bit of sticky wax into the brass
tubes, and insert the pearl-on-a-pin into the brass tube. Voila'. Very
nice. (Especially for someone like me who tends to be just a weeeeeeeee bit
prone to crack or  knock the pearls off on occassion (gotta stop that
head-butting in the circles ;->).

Aquilanne


Subject: BG - new coronets
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 11:20:10 MST
From: Chris Yone <cyone at sprd1.mdacc.tmc.edu>
To: Bryn-Gwlad list <bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG>

here are some sources for crown examples (though mostly royal) that are
online.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/history/anglos.htm
(this site may take some time to load -I thought it was slow on a T1, may
have been a bad connection) Picturse and a little about English rulers
through the centuries.

Medieval England 3
they are selling these plates, but the online versions are worth looking at.
they do give some mention of sources-though very broad.

Another thing to consiter that I think adds grace and sophistication to
crowns and coronets is a velvet cap underneath.  It was done in England by
the 15th c. and was used by royalty and nobles.  The main distinction
between the royal circlets and others was that royalty had more (and bigger)
gemstones and semi precious stones and detail. Royalty also had the crossing
hoops topped with an orb by the 15th c.

Kirsten MacDonald


From: geard at clear.net.nz (J Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Masters' Crowns
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:33:10 GMT

Greetings all, from Alys;

I quote from "Elizabethan Embroidery" (London: Faber, 1963) by George
Wingfield Digby, who was Keeper of Textiles at the Victoria & Albert
Museum:

"CROWNS (City Livery Companies)

"Crowns, usually of embroidered velvet, were used for crowning the
masters at ceremonies of the Courts of the Livery Companies of London.
The following crowns are still in the possession of the Companies: the
Carpenters, dated 1561; the Girdlers, from the second half of the 16th
century; the Broderers, second half of the 16th century; and the
Parish Clerks, a pair, dated 1601. The last are on permanent loan to
the Victoria and Albert Museum, but are withdrawn twice a year for the
Company's dinners.

"These crowns are of particular interest because they are typical
examples of professional embroidery of the period; unquestionably this
must be so in the case of the Broderers' own Company, and one of their
two crowns is here illustrated, Pl. 11 (the other is in slightly less
good condition). It is a crown of tawny-orange velvet and is
embroidered with a rich floral pattern in which silver and gold in a
great variety of threads and strips have been used, together with
coloured silks, also with seed pearls, though these have now almost
entirely disappeared; the use of silver strips in place of sequins is
noteworthy. The method of embroidery is prinicipally couched work,
with a certain amount of raised work. The centre of the crown has the
Company's badge of the dove in a shaped cartouche. Inside the crown
embroidered in large letters on the same velvet is the motto 'Omnia de
Super'."

The crown shown is made from a band of stiffened and lined velvet
about 2 inches high. It's heavily encrusted with naturalistic
fruit-flowers-and-foliage raised embroideries, and in the centre-front
the embroidered Broderers' badge looks very stylish (although it also
looks like a bird pinned out on a sun-patterned dissection plate).
From what I can see of the motto inside the crown it's in large
upper-case letters in a Roman serifed font.

My first though when I found references to the embroidered crowns of
masters and aldermen was "Way cool: how are they made?" My second
thought was "Was it just the Broderers Company which used an
embroidered crown?", to which the answer appears to be "No". My third
was "Here's something that could be used in peerage ceremonies for
Laurels and Pelicans (who don't seem to get nearly as much regalia as
Knights)."

Of course it's more complicated than that. It may be that a Company
only ever had one or two crowns which were used by the Company's
ranking master(s) at special events. It may have been a
late-period-only practice. And it's another thing that would tie the
arts and service peerages to the model of the medieval craft guild or
livery company: essentially a middle- and artisan-class model with
quite different connotations to the aristocratic model of knighthood.

But I still think it's neat, and I still think the Pelicans and
Laurels get shortchanged on symbolism and regalia, so...

Does anyone out there know anything more about masters' crowns, and
has anyone used them or known of their use in the SCA?

Alys le Chaunster


From: The Jones' <lochmor at ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Looking for merchant
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:17:23 -0400

I'm hoping someone can help me.  I am looking for a merchant that I have
seen at past Pennsic Wars.  This lady made the most wonderful coronets. 
They were very delicate looking some with floral patterns and some just
silver.  I'm looking to purchase a coronet and always thought that if I
ever had occasion to purchase one, I would like one of hers. 
Unfortunatly, I did not see her booth at this past Pennsic.  She made
other jewelry too.  If you can help me, either reply to the newsgroup or
directly to me.

Baroness Genevieve Macpherson
mka Diane Jones
lochmor at ix.netcom.com


From: satyrsong at aol.com (SATYRSONG)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for merchant
Date: 17 Apr 1998 23:26:12 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

I believe the person you are looking for is Jan Wyman of Crafty Fox.
Her wares were there last year, in Ashton's Dragon Heart tent. Some times she
goes to the war as a solo merchant, some times not.
The last address I have for her is:
P O Box 471
E. Hamstead, N.H. 03826

SS


Subject: RE: ANST - Vague Laws
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 07:03:22 MST
From: John Ruble <ulf at urocor.com>
To: "'ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

Sir Alrek said:
>         2.Engrailed coronets. They may have no more than six "points" or
> projections, which may be surmounted by spherical projections of no
> more than 1/2 inch diameter, and must have a smoothly concave outline
> between each "point", so as to clearly distinguish them from County
> coronets.
>
> In part 2. what does surmounted mean?

In this case, I believe it means "topped".  Early period coronets show
"pearls on a stick" for some coronets.    The pearls are stuck on the
points.  The kingdom sumptuary laws are more concerned with the
silhouette than anything else, so this makes sense.  Of course, you could
always decorate it with pearls.

The problem is their were no sumptuary laws recorded until late in
period.  The rule of thumb was to not make a coronet that was more
impressive than those worn by higher ranking nobles.  Check out
Fox-Davies for a good discussion.

Ulf


Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:55:01 -0600
From: <marsha.greene at mpan.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: circlets

>Hi all! Last week I started a silversmithing course. Since we basicely get
>to do what we want and the silver is fairly inexpensive I was planning on
>making myself a circlet. Do any of you knowledgable folks know where I can
>find some pictures of authentic 13-15 century circlets. Since I'm in
>Drachenwald I don't need to think about sumptuary laws that much (I'm a
>Lady).

>Anna de Byxe

I have not found a book dedicated primarily to circlets and crowns as yet
(if there is one let me know).  Most of the historical inspiration I have
received have been from illuminations, paintings, sculptures/funeral
statuaries and jewelry/enameling books.  But, I would imagine that being in
Drachenwald, you would have many primary sources of museum items to
consider and possibly from historical crown jewel displays.

If you choose to create a closed circlet, you may want to place your
closure seam at the side of the circlet, over one ear, instead of at the
back of the circlet.  This will create less stress on the joint, and may be
more comfortable.  You can cover the seam up with a bezel-set stone or
applique metal.    Consider 20g metal or less, else you may be wearing a
'headache'.  But, not so lightweight that you compromise structural
integrity.

I strongly suggest you check with your heralds regarding any sumptuary
laws.  While they may not be written down, there may be strongly held
traditions that the Kingdom follows.  And if you are currently in
Drachenwald, is it possible that you will not be in the future?  Not all
Kingdoms will allow you to 'Grandfather' your coronet in your new Kingdom,
should you move; even if it was perfectly acceptable where you made it.
Save yourself some grief, check ahead.

Without wanting to get into a discussion of Sumptuary Laws, my Kingdom,
Ansteorra, does not recognize the law of metal circlets for AOA's
(Lord/Lady), Anyone can wear one up to 1/2 in. width (though personally, I
like the idea of AOA's getting a silver circlet allowed... helps one know
how to address the person).    Baronies are flat top or 6 pearl point
coronets.  Counts (1Crown) are Dovetailed or Embattled points and Dukes (2+
Crowns) are Strawberry Leaf Points.   Good luck,

Bn. Hillary Greenslade   Canton of Westgate/Barony of Stargate/Kingdom of
Ansteorra


Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:09:39 EST
From: <Aralyn67 at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: circlets

marsha.greene at mpan.com writes:
>  I have not found a book dedicated primarily to circlets and crowns as yet
>  (if there is one let me know).  Most of the historical inspiration I have
>  received have been from illuminations, paintings, sculptures/funeral
>  statuaries and jewelry/enameling books.  But, I would imagine that being
>  in Drachenwald, you would have many primary sources of museum items to
>  consider and possibly from historical crown jewel displays.

     I've seen a nice coffee table book by a Northern European Prince (real
one not Scadian, but I can't remember of where)  detailing the Crown Jewels of
Europe.  Not everything was period but it had lots of Crowns and Coronets from
well within the allowable time table.  Not much suited to non Royal peers
though.  It's a very pretty book, lots of great photos.

Aralyn Thorgrimsdottir
AEthelmearc


Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:41:58 -0500
From: Carol Thomas <scbooks at neca.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: circlets

> I've seen a nice coffee table book by a Northern European Prince (real
>one not Scadian, but I can't remember of where)  detailing the Crown Jewels of
>Europe.

>Aralyn Thorgrimsdottir

Prince Michael of Greece?
The title was, of course,  Crown Jewels of Europe, from Harper & Rowe.

Lady Carllein


Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:21:09 +1200
From: Peter Grooby <Peter.Grooby at trimble.co.nz>
To: "'sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu'" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: RE: fastening pearls?

Anna Troy [SMTP:Anna.Troy at bibks.uu.se] wrote:
> I just have the rugh polishing of my circlet to do before adding the stones
> (it'll be four small garnets) I also have some baroque pearls. Now I know
> you fasten them with wire that has a small head but that's only on the
> front. How do I fasten the wire on the back after I've treaded it through
> the hole in the circlet. I can't solder it'cause that would damage the
> pearl and I would like to avoid glueing. I have some good pictures of
> medieval jewellery but none where I can see the back. Help!

I did this recently. They were small pearls, and the holes were very small.
I used brass pins (for lace making) for the pearls.
I had holes drilled in the circlet. I just bent over half an inch of pin on
the back of the circlet and glued in place. There was a lining added to the
back of the circlet, so the pins were covered.

No documentation for this, I just made it up.

Vitale
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Grooby            pgrooby at trimble.co.nz             -=0 0=-/
Trimble Navigation  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3069  |_{|}/ /
Christchurch, NZ.                                           _|  \


Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:57:05 -0800 (PST)
From: H B <nn3_shay at yahoo.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: fastening pearls?

---Anna Troy <Anna.Troy at bibks.uu.se> wrote:
>I also have some baroque pearls. Now I know
> you fasten them with wire that has a small head but that's only on the
> front. How do I fasten the wire on the back after I've treaded it through
> the hole in the circlet. I can't solder it'cause that would damage the
> pearl and I would like to avoid glueing. I have some good pictures of
> medieval jewellery but none where I can see the back. Help!
>
> Anna de Byxe

Anna -- Yes, soldering the pins on with the pearls in place will
damage the pearls; the trick is, you solder on a pin (length of wire)
WITHOUT a head, long enough to pass completely through the pearl with
1/4 to 1/2 inch extra, and then slide the pearl on and trim the wire
to more like 1/8 inch (2-3mm) beyond the end.  Peen a head on the pin
that will hold the pearl there -- like a rivet.  Use wire as big as
will fit through your drill hole.

I don't know if glue was used in period or not, but I wouldn't be at
all surprised; it's used currently when fixing half-drilled pearls and
other gemstone beads to earring posts and such.  Good luck!

Harriet


Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:34:14 -0400
From: Irene leNoir <irene at ici.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: bead work

Thora wrote:
>Would you please elaborate on the documentation?  I am familiar with the
>circlet in the painting that was featured in the 1995 Medieval Women
>calendar.  Irene put it on-line at:
>
>http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica/beadwork/images/beauty.jpg
>
>But it's not clear to me whether this detail represents an idealized,
>allegorized, or realistic depiction.

and Daniella replied:
>I'm sorry to say you would have to ask Irene that information.  For I am
>basing my studies on the actual portraits.  It looks to me to be as close to
>exact as possible from what all I have studied.  Close attention was paid to
>detail and jewelry.

To fess up... I don't know whether the coronet depicted in the painting
in question is allegorical or not.

Admittedly, the woman wearing the coronet is a Saint, and I have not yet
found a full view of the painting in order to compare the entirety of her
outfit to reality.

On the other hand, I find myself suspecting that if the coronet were
completely made up and not based on some existing example, the artist
wouldn't have gone to the trouble to so accurately depict the separate
beads and the different methods of construction that they are put
together with.

My opinion only... add salt to taste.

Jessica Clark
SCA: Irene leNoir


From: rlobinske at aol.com (Richard Lobinske)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 19 Dec 2000 18:41:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Circlets

>Does anyone have a source for metal circlets. I used to deal with Ingasbo
>but all I get now is an 404 error.

You can make simple circlets out of strip stirling silver (I use 1/4 or 1/2
inch).  I order from Rio Grande, but any other source will do.  After
determining desired size, you can hand form around an anvil horn or a lenght of
pipe.  The ends can be soldered together for  a fixed size, or you can use
round-nose pliers to turn the ends in a small loop, then thread some cloth or
leather through to tie off.

Victor Hildebrand vonn Koln
mka Richard Lobinske
Trimaris


From: Tanya Guptill <tguptill at teleport.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Making a Coronet--new web page
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:37:53 -0700

Noble friends,

HL Conor O'droi has webbed the process he used for making a coronet for
me.  It can be found at http://www.teleport.com/~sca/conor/coronet.html
, if you are interested.

Warmly,
Mira Silverlock


From: Bert Garwood <garwoodbert at qwest.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: baronial coronet needed-
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:50:40 -0500

For really pretty stuff, see:
http://www.ne.infi.net/~fcderosa/

Of course, it is priced accordingly.

Berwyn


From: Tanya Guptill <tguptill at teleport.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: baronial coronet needed-
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:28:50 -0700

You may want to check out:
http://www.dragonsjewels.com/crown1.htm
http://www.signetring.com/Coronet/Coronet_how_to_make/coronet_how_to_make.htm
http://www.teleport.com/~sca/conor/coronet.html

Mira Silverlock


From: "Elaine Koogler" <ekoogler011 at home.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] OT....Search for a Coronet
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:26:00 -0500

>I am seeking a source or crafter for Coronets. Any and all 
> sugestons welcome !!!
> Aethelwulf

If you are looking for early period designs, go to The Crafty Celts. Master
Vortigern does wonderful early period work...fairly expensive, but
exquisitely done.  Another really good source is Drachenstein Treasures.
Master Lothar does wonderful stuff as well, though later in period.
Drachenstein can be reached at www.dragonsjewels.com, and the Crafty Celt at
www.craftycelts.com.  Under no circumstances should you have anything to do
with Jan Wyman at Crafty Fox.  I have found her to be a dishonest merchant
who doesn't live up to her contracts.  I have yet to receive a ring that I
ordered 4 years ago...stupidly paid in full in advance...despite numerous
requests, one in person, for either the ring or my money returned.

Kiri


From: Billfog1 at aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:44:57 EST
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Coronets...

I got my coronet from Master Lothar at Drachenstein Treasures and it is
absolutely beautiful!  It was done on time and the price was fair.  I
definitely recommend him!

Suzanne


From: Burke McCrory <burkemc at cox.net>
Date: May 30, 2006 10:22:10 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Warlord news

I though I would post this site again as these people make some very 
nice simple "light weight" coronets.

http://www.ingasbo.com/

Burke


Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Katheline van Weye <kat_weye at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] OT: Coronet Merchant Recommendation
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

It's time for me to begin the search for a coronet merchant as my husband and I
are halfway through our landed baroness/baron term and will need personal
coronets when we step down (should Their Majesties deem us worthy of the
Bannthegn/Thegn positions at that time).  I haven't really seen the style of
coronet I like from any of the artisans in Atenveldt so I thought I would
search further out.  My preference is for either a pierced metal or etched
"lacy" design as my ultimate goal is to have a coronet with a traditional
Elizabethan blackwork design on it.  I find the various "vine" coronets out
there to be quite lovely but with all of the soldering on them I am very
worried about breakage so I do not think those styles will do for me.  I do not
care for the hinged coronets as our Barony has one set of those and all they do
is rip out my hair.

The Apples and Flowers Coronet on Craft Fox at
http://www.craftyfox.com/coronets/sterling-silver.html is a good example of the
pierced design that I like.  Drachenstein Treasures also shows a pierced
coronet at http://www.dragonsjewels.com/bar31.jpg.  A simple etched coronet on
Drachenstein Treasures is at http://www.dragonsjewels.com/bar45.jpg.

Any suggestions or recommendations for merchants?  I turn to you all because
though I see a lovely coronet on a website, it doesn't guarantee that the
merchant is able to produce such a coronet again in the time frame we need or
with the same quality.  But you all know which merchants have done well by you
and which haven't so I hope you can help me with this quest.

Katheline van Weye


Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:15:40 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Coronet Merchant Recommendation
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I have one of Drachenstein's coronets...not one of the ones you showed,
but one that is a Pelican/Laurel combination.  I really enjoy working
with them...Master Lothar is a consummate craftsman and takes a great
deal of pride in his work.  I can't be sure, but I believe that Crafty
Fox is the company I had a great deal of trouble with some years back.
I ordered a ring from them...stupidly prepaid for the whole thing, and
never got my ring or my money.  This transaction happened at Pennsic.
Their work is exquisite, which is why this bothered me so much.  I have
purchased several Pelican medallions and a coronet from them...so was
really stunned when they treated me in such a cavalier fashion.  I know
that other folks from Atlantia had problems with them as well.  If it
were I, I would go with Drachenstein...great work, reliable and honest.

Kiri


Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 08:23:01 -0400
From: wildecelery at aol.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Coronet
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Try Willofyre Studios as well.  Mistress Safia does stunning work.  
www.willofyre.com

-Ardenia


Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:01:06 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Coronet Merchant Recommendation
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Michael Gunter wrote:
> You might like the work of my squire's lady. She is getting to be pretty well
> known for her coronets. She made both the coronets you usually saw me wear
> and knows how to do hinged right. You know my hair and it has never gotten
> caught in mine.
>
> http://home.texoma.net/~bperkins/gallery.html
>
> The coronets are posted in the jewelry section and you can see she can
> fit a variety of styles.
>
> Gunthar

Gunthar,
Her work is wonderful!  I'll keep her pages bookmarked in case I run
across anyone else who needs a pointy hat!

Kiri


From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>
Date: November 10, 2007 10:22:43 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Ducal Perogative

At 11:15 AM 11/10/2007, Robin wrote:
> "robert segrest" wrote:
>> At any rate, I am continually amazed that a system of governance that
>> theoretically should be one of the worst possible methods for choosing
>> leaders seems to usually produce high quality administration, not  
>> only from our monarchs, but also from the officers they appoint.
>
> The SCA is a volunteer organization, and the principles of government are
> different.  The essential control over the government is not the  
> vote, but the fact that we can always walk away.

Precisely. Engraved on the inside of the Crowns of Caid are the
words: "You rule because they believe." That's a good thing for *any*
Crown to keep in mind.

          -Tivar Moondragon


Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:38:02 +0800
From: "Damian Forlani-Brennan" <taraforge at westnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Regalia for Viscounts and Viscountesses
To: "The Shambles, the SCA Lochac mailing list" <lochac at sca.org.au>

<<< I believe it is 16 points.
Ingerith >>>

Heraldic sources such as von Neubecker show sixteen points adopted 
universally across Europe and England for coronets worn by Viscounts and 
Viscountesses as of the 1700's.  There is much debate about how early this 
practice was adopted and how much it reflected previous tradition from what 
year and in which countries.

In heraldic art, a sixteen pointed circlet is drawn in 2D with seven full 
visible points (at the front) and two half points (at the sides).  Similarly 
an eight pointed circlet would be drawn with three full points (at the 
front) and two half points (at the side).

Period paintings show examples of sixteen pointed circlets in period for 
Viscounts but also a range of others before standardisation in the 1700's to 
16 points, including at least one example with eight points.  (Outside of 
England most baronial circlets were not eight points but a plain band 
wrapped in a string of pearls.)   What you do not see are any examples of 
people with titles wearing circlets with a single point or decoration on a 
plain band.  According to von Neubecker this is called a "circlet of 
pretence" heraldically and was worn by the untitled, presumably on occasions 
where everyone else was wearing a crown or coronet they were entitled to. 
This circlet of pretence eventually became more elaborate as the tiara we 
know of today and often has two lesser points on either side of the large 
front point.

The curious SCA style three pointed crown adopted by some early SCA kingdoms 
was I believe either inspired by the tiara or from a confusion of the 3D 
with the 2D artistic convention for coronets.

Either way I am pleased that we don't see them much in these parts and 
favour more period practice in Lochac.

Reynardine,
first Viscount of Lochac


From: Hillary Greenslade <hillaryrg at yahoo.com>
Date: April 6, 2010 5:19:31 PM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] New Crowns and Coronets

Very glad to see that Star Principal Herald, Emma, and Rhiannon have encouraged artisans to consult the Heraldic law and guidelines; perhaps even having Star Principal validate that a potential design passes the laws.  Having known at least 3 or 4 royal /nobility who did not, the mistake in designing a coronet that is not allowed for kingdom and/or SCA standards can be costly and time consuming.  Having spoken to several coronet artisans at Pennsic and Gulf Wars, the merchants generally expect the customer has had their designed approved by the Heralds office.  

As a student of coronet designs in history, I've bookmarked the following sites for SCA coronet designs: 
http://www.goldenstag.net/MiscSCA/CrownsAndCoronets.htm
http://www.flickr.com/groups/scacrowns/pool/  
     (love the shots with coronet and eye's only - a great guessing game to figure who it is)

Sumptuary Laws of SCA Kingdoms: 
http://sca-garb.freeservers.com/articles/sumptuary.htm  (article's a bit out of date, links may not work)

In addition to SCA artisans, here are some SCA merchants of some experience, a starter list...
http://www.dragonsjewels.com/Misc1.htm (Drachenstein Treasures from Gulf Wars)
http://www.darkridgejewels.com/  (Lyn was apprentice to Drachensteins, now has her own shop at Gulf Wars)
http://www.signetring.com/Coronet/coronet.htm  (created the Bryn Gwlad coronets)
http://www.sunshadowdesign.com/index.html
http://www.billdawsonmetalsmith.com/index.html
http://www.blackwood.tierranet.com/
http://www.scametalwork.com/coronets_index.html
http://www.craftyfox.com/coronets/gold-plated.html  (may not be actively taking commissions)

and good books on the subject: 
Crown Jewels of Europe by Prince Michael of Greece 
Royal Jewels: From Charlemagne to the Romanovs edit by Diana Scarisbrick and others 
Afghanistan: Hidden Treasures, by Fredrik Hiebert 
              (Love the coronet in this book, the projections are removeable, so it can be a flat hat and also folds for travel.)

Good luck with this project, Hillary


Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 15:46:42 +0000
From: Jenny Andersen <jla_mni at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Circlets
To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

Hi Alexander,

<<< What is the general rule, or lacking one, the general consensus, on
circlets? >>>

SCA wide there really is no consensus, apart from number/kind of points for different royal ranks. This is however based more on Victorian heraldry rules ie strawberry leaves on ducal coronets, but again not every Duke/Duchess will have strawberry leaves on their coronets - have a look at this Flickr group to see the wide range of coronets: http://www.flickr.com/groups/scacrowns/

<<< 'some kingdoms' restrict them to AoA-holders only, according to Cunnan. Does anyone have any more details than that? >>>

Some kingdoms also have width restrictions (as well as restrictions on carrying of knives) depending on which award you have, there is also in some kingdoms a metal restriction ie silver or gold for different ranks, Lochac however (and I think this reflects Australian egalatarianism :) has no such restrictions in its laws. But generally if you keep your circlet non pointy and under 5cm width (decorated as much or as little as you like) you'll be laughing.

Maeve


Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 12:29:27 +1000
From: Ian Whitchurch <ian.whitchurch at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] History of Circlets
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

Worked my way through the equivalent thesis for sumptuary laws in England (warning, badly machine scanned document).

http://www.archive.org/stream/sumptuarylegisla00bald/sumptuarylegisla00bald_djvu.txt

As far as period sumptuary laws in England and Italy go, Coronets seem to be just jewelry. Nothing more, nothing less.

My gut is telling me that ducal, viscounty etc etc coronets are a Victorian innovation, but I cant back that up.

Anton


Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 15:01:12 +1200
From: Bob Bain <bob.bain at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] History of Circlets
To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

<<< My gut is telling me that ducal, viscounty etc etc coronets are a Victorian innovation, but I cant back that up.

Anton >>>

As I understand these things the types and designs of coronets and robes for the british peerage were laid down in the time of Charles I and have varied little since then. What I've not found out is if the rules were brought in to introduce baronial, ducal et al coronets to let the peerage wear them or if the rules were brought in to limit and control the use of regalia by a peerage who were already using them.

Any thoughts?

Callum


Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 15:06:24 +1200
From: "Lila Richards" <lilar at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] History of Circlets
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

<<< As far as period sumptuary laws in England and Italy go, Coronets seem to 
Be just jewelry. Nothing more, nothing less.

My gut is telling me that ducal, viscounty etc etc coronets are a 
Victorian innovation, but I cant back that up. >>>

However, I found the following, from the Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth 
Edition, which suggests that some rank-distinguishing designs, at least, 
date much earlier than the Victorian era, though perhaps not in the forms we 
have today:

coronet

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | 2008 | The Columbia Encyclopedia, 
Sixth Edition. Copyright 2008 Columbia University Press. (Hide copyright 
information) Copyright
coronet , head attire of a noble of high rank, worn on state occasions. It 
is inferior to the crown. British peers wear their coronets at the 
coronation of their sovereign. Although dukes wore coronets to mark their 
rank by the 14th cent., it was in the reign of Elizabeth I that individual 
patterns were adopted for other peers, and barons received distinguishing 
insignia in 1661. The coronet of a duke is bordered by 8 strawberry leaves; 
that of a marquess, by 4 strawberry leaves alternating with 4 silver balls 
(sometimes called pearls) on low points; that of an earl, by 8 strawberry 
leaves alternating with 8 silver balls on high points; that of a viscount, 
by 16 silver balls on the rim; that of a baron, by 6 silver balls on the 
gold rim.

Sinech.


Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:53:40 +1000
From: Raymond Wickham <insidious565 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] History of Circlets
To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

chapter 23 of fox davies has a piece on headwear
http://www7b.biglobe.ne.jp/~bprince/hr/foxdavies/fdguide23.htm


Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:22:14 +1000
From: "Melina Hall" <melinahall at optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Circlets
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

Anton said, "if you build something too tacky, then people will think you
bought it at Copperart. Personally, I think that should be the biggest 
concern - kingdom law can be changed much more easily than good taste."

And I agree with him! Each year at Pennsic, I see some gigantic, horrendous 
coronets. Mostly they turn out to be court [baronies].

Asa


Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:57:43 +1200
From: tamara at suncrow.com
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Circlets
To: lochac at lochac.sca.org

Quoting Melina Hall <melinahall at optusnet.com.au>:
<<<
Anton said, "if you build something too tacky, then people will think you
bought it at Copperart. Personally, I think that should be the biggest
concern - kingdom law can be changed much more easily than good taste."

And I agree with him! Each year at Pennsic, I see some gigantic,
horrendous coronets. Mostly they turn out to be court [baronies]. >>>

Some of the jeweled items I've seen in museums have been pretty  
gigantic and horrendous.  :^)  Could be that those sorts of things  
lasted long enough to make it to a modern museum *because* they were  
so OTT, though.

Of course "visual display of wealth and power" and "subtle" tend to be  
at odds more often than not in any case.

Kazimira


Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 10:53:00 +1000
From: Tiffany Brown <teffania at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Circlets
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

On 23 June 2010 10:18, Zebee Johnstone <zebeej at gmail.com> wrote:
<<< They don't have to be ostentatious *now*.

But in period? damn right they did. >>>

A number of the gaudiest medieval crowns I've seen have been the
victims of being herilooms.  Most of them started out being generally
well designed with a thematic elegance by the standards of their era
(although there is always the odd ugly one, and 12th C asthetics can
seem rather gaudy by modern standards).  But then someone just had to
add an extra bit becuase so-and so had one, and started an arms race.
But because the crown was an item of history (that links you to your
right to rule, especially if your bloodline isn't too clear), they
often didn't just design a bigger or flashier new one , but instead
added on tacky extras to the one with the history.(and it was cheaper
too)

Teffania


Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:05:45 +1000
From: Ian Whitchurch <ian.whitchurch at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Circlets
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

It's appalling. It's utterly appalling.

I love it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Schatzkammer_Residenz_Muenchen_Krone_Heinrich_II_1270.jpg

Anton


Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:09:57 +0800
From: Rebecca Lucas <quokkaqueen at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Circlets
To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

Oooh, I can add:

Monomakh's Cap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomakh's_Cap

The Reliquary Crown: http://politikfuerfranken.blogspot.com/2009/03/die-heinrichskrone.html

Crown of Eric XIV: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Royal_crown_of_Sweden.jpg

And the non-European Crowns of Silla: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_Silla

In my very limited experience, the closest thing I've seen look like a 'tasteful' crown was described as a wedding crown. There's an extant 16th century Semigallian one (if I remember right, it was sheet metal stiffened with birchbark), but that was classy peasant dress instead of noble (ie. it was due to budget, not refined taste). 

~Asfridhr

<<snip>>
1) stick more gemstones on it. On any surface that is bare.
2) add a structure over the top of the head. either a single arch or a
pair of perpendicular arches in the byzantine fashion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Crown_of_the_Holy_Roman_Empire
3) add extra decorative bits sticking out the top (or in our case, we
could replace them with fancier ones)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_Charlemagne
4)add byzantine style pendant bits handing off the bottom (after
adding the bits on the top - otherwise it would look silly)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Crown_of_Hungary
<<snip>>


Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 15:54:26 +1000
From: Chris Anderson <chris.aeddan at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Circlets
To: The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
<<< It's appalling. It's utterly appalling.

I love it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Schatzkammer_Residenz_Muenchen_Krone_Heinrich_II_1270.jpg  >>>

I'm quite sure that those are indeed the precious and semi-precious
items they are supposed to be, but the whole thing looks ... I dunno, fake?

Very nicely made, though.


Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 21:25:53 +1000
From: Steve Roylance <roylance at corplink.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Circlets
To: lochac at lochac.sca.org

http://www.residenz-muenchen.de/englisch/treasury/pic11.htm


From: Hroller McKnutt <hroller at GMAIL.COM>
Date: March 11, 2011 1:32:27 PM CST
To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] Leather Worked Needed

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
<<< I'm curious, why are you wanting a coronet of leather? Most of the ones I've seen seemed to be made of metal, often brass. >>>

I don't know about Bel, but my Knight had one made of leather because
metal ones hurt to sit on, are heavy, heat up in the sun, and cost a
lot.

Besides, it's easier to play coronet ring toss with a leather coronet.

Hrothgar


From: Belanna <baroness_belanna at ATT.NET>
Date: March 11, 2011 1:58:03 PM CST
To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] Leather Worked Needed

I currently have 2 metal coronets.  One was a gift from Baron Geoffrey of York from the Midrelm made by Dranconstien Treasures and is lovely.

  One I had commissioned with my personal design.  The current leather one was made with mine and my X husbands arms on it.  This is my field coronet, meaning in the heat of Pennsic and the damp of Gulf War when running around and wanting a light weight comfy coronet the leather one is just right.  Now since he is my X husband I prefer to have my coronet with just my arms on it.

I know too much information, but inquiring minds wanted to know.

Bel

On Mar 11, 2011, at 11:06 AM, Belanna wrote:
<<< I am in the market for a new leather unlanded baronial coronet.  The one I have currently is in sad shape.  If you would like to make some money and work with leather.  Please email me at baroness_belanna at att.net and we can discuss terms and ideas.

Bel >>>

<<< I'm curious, why are you wanting a coronet of leather? Most of the ones I've seen seemed to be made of metal, often brass.

Weight? cost? a persona thing?

Stefan >>>


From: Dee Thompson <lonemuse2 at YAHOO.COM>
Date: March 11, 2011 3:14:38 PM CST
To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] Leather Worked Needed

<<< Weight? cost? a persona thing? 

Stefan >>>

Weight is one reason.
Having something to wear that you don't mind being damaged while you work is another.  I made one for Stanislaus for that reason.

And to add to that, I'm sure having one made of leather when you're flying on the way to Pennsic, Estrella or Gulf Wars makes things easier as well... You don't have to worry about explaining it so much in your carry-on, or worry about it getting stolen if you put it through the check-in baggage. If it goes missing, it's easy enough to replace.

Fionnuala


From: Cyn Wise <gwynnethrhys at YAHOO.COM>
Date: March 12, 2011 8:26:46 AM CST
To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] Leather Worked Needed

My daughter and son-in-law's County coronets are leather.  They are much more comfortable to wear for long periods of time, I'm told, than anything metal.

Gwynneth
 

Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 20:01:37 +1300
From: michaela de bruce <michaela.de.bruce at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] jewelry wish-list
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

And for pure flight of fancy some coronets based on extant crowns (I
think 15th/16thC German- guild or bridal can't recall) with text
around the base. They are silly and glorious all at once. Sadly google
foo fails me.

And then fine work like this:
http://www.darkridgejewels.com/gallery/RenaissanceJewelryAvail

Window shopping only.

Willemyne


Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 13:57:35 +1100
From: "Tig" <tig at fastmail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] jewellery wish-list
To: "Shambles" <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

Interesting to note that not one person has noted the US spelling
throughout.  The pedant jeweller in me has corrected the subject line
accordingly :)  I'd like to thanks Kazimira for raising the topic.  It's
been fascinating from my perspective!

Gui's reply -
<<< The coronets in the Moulins Triptych 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hey_Moulins_Triptych.jpg 

I'm not even sure I'd ask the price. >>>

to which Giles replied -
<<< Which means you can't afford them :) >>>

I doubt *any* of us could afford reproductions in the same materials. 
The originals, if extant, given their provenance, would be in the high
millions (I stalk auction house results for such things).  Reproduced in
the same materials, you're still looking at several low million. 
Depends on how many of the gemstones are precious as opposed to
semi-precious ie rubies vs garnets, sapphires vs blue topaz, size of
pearls, colour and lustre etc.  Do we know if they're still around or if
this painting is the only record.  There may be a list of materials in a
stocktake of regalia somewhere...  Would LOVE to see it...

To give a quick comparison of one item I was in charge of maintaining
and occasionally even carried in my handbag to exhibitions for a
previous employer, I give you an 18ct gold and diamond collar necklace
about 5cm wide at the centre and tapering towards the catch. Quite
Egyptian looking. The surface was studded in various cuts of Argyle
diamonds, mostly the champagne and cognac colours (cheaper than white)
but the occasional pink (more expensive than white) here and there.  We
had manufactured it as a talking point to encourage the 'stars' to
commission us to make their bling.  I valued it (as the resident
registered valuer) for replacement cost, at one million AUD.  It
contained mostly cheap diamonds and little extra technique such as
etching, niello inlay, enamelwork etc.  Lighter than a coronet too.

William commented -
<<< The tastefully tiered one in the background, or the boring single-tier
ones worn by the kneeling couple? >>>

I'm sure Gui was referring to the elegant single-tiered ones, rather
than the gaudy, migraine starting, lightning rod in the background ;-P. 
Besides, up close, those single tier ones can be extremely busy in of
themselves.  Have made some very similar to those two although I'd like
to see a close up.  Anyone got any more info on them?

~ Tig


Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 00:04:48 -0400
From: "E. L. Wimett" <silverdragon at charleston.net>
To: <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: [MR] Laurel Precedent on "Grandfathered Regalia"

Without commenting on the substance of the proposal on symbols of rank, I should note that there has indeed been for more than twenty-five years an explicit Laurel precedent on the use of regalia earned in a kingdom different from that in which an individual is resident.

I can speak with some authority on this matter since the Laurel ruling was made in direct response to a query/request for ruling from me when I was Brigantia Principal Herald of the East.  

Drachenwald was then still part of the East and Drachenwald viscounts and viscountesses were experiencing some "issues" when they PCSed to certain kingdoms where they were being told, more or less officially (and somewhat officiously!) that they could not wear their viscounty coronets since they did not follow the usual local pattern for such things.  (Almost exactly the sort of situation over which Viscount Axel has expressed concern!)

This precedent appeared in the cover letter to the July, 1984, LoAR available on line at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1984/07/cl.htm.  

The relevant text is:

 ?Another problem which has developed is the situation with kingdoms having different sumptuary standards and the cases where people from one kingdom travel to or move to another kingdom. The Middle had, until recently, laws on the size and style of banners allowed to different ranks. Both the Middle and Meridies have laws concerning the designs and materials allowed for coronets and circlets for various ranks. Some people have had their personal coronets questioned when they moved to another kingdom having different standards. Whether or not the College decides to have standard designs for things like viscounty coronets, baronial circlets, armigers' circlets, etc., I would like to make one thing quite clear: anyone who has received an item of regalia according to the customs and laws of the kingdom or principality in which they earned the right to such regalia, whether it be a medallion, a circlet, a coronet, or some other emblem of regalia, has the right to continue to use that regalia wherever else in the SCA they may move or travel to. Kingdom or Principality sumptuary codes apply only to regalia earned in that kingdom or principality or made new while living in that kingdom or principality. Thus, if a court Baron is given a golden circlet by the King when he is made a court Baron he has the right to wear that circlet when he travels to or moves to another kingdom whose custom or law is to have court Barons wear silver circlets. Should that court Baron later wish to make a new circlet, then that new circlet should conform to the customs or laws in the new area of residence. The old regalia legally obtained in the previous kingdom of residence is protected under a grandfather-clause exemption from sumptuary laws in other kingdoms.

 To make sure that the Powers That Be are aware that foreign regalia has entered the Kingdom, and to provide a clear indication that the foreign regalia has indeed been granted an exception, I recommend that the custom be established that immigrating armigers with rights to particular regalia check with the Principal Herald of the new kingdom of residence and get such regalia cleared. Such clearance should be relatively routine, except in excessive cases. In period, anyone who could afford the materials and labor to make one (and also to pay the sumptuary tax) could wear a jeweled circlet. The right of all SCA members to wear a simple thin circlet to hold their headdress/hair down should not be abridged in any kingdom of the SCA. For the sake of courtesy and hospitality, visitors from other kingdoms should never be questioned on matters of regalia, beyond a tactful inquiry as to what the regalia is for and whether it is standard in the person's home kingdom. Someone moving to another kingdom should inquire into and be informed of any sumptuary customs or laws in effect in that kingdom, and would be well advised to consider conforming to local customs, but s/he should not be required to throw away legally received regalia.

Alisoun


Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 12:19:48 +1000
From: " the_brinsmeads at netspeed.com.au "
	<the_brinsmeads at netspeed.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Circlets - what is okay and what isn't?
To: " The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list "
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

The good news is that Lochac doesn't have sumptory laws.
It appears most kingdoms in North America do - particularly those that grew from the East Kingdom, rather than from the West (like big island Lochac). Hence the conflicting information on the web.

A good rule of thumb is:
For circlets, use laurel leaves only when a Laurel, seven points if a Baron/Baronness, strawberry leaves if holding a duchy. I'd leave roses for Ladies of the Rose too.
Apart from that, they can be skinny, wide, tall, metal, leather, what ever takes your fancy and looks good.

Ragnhildr


Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 10:49:43 +1100
From: Alessandra Dellamorot <a_dellamorot at optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Lochac] Henry VIII replica crown
To: lochac at lochac.sca.org

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/video/2012/oct/07/henry-viiis-crown-video?fb=native

In case anyone is interested.


To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Circlets
Posted by: "Hillary" hillaryrg at yahoo.com hillaryrg
Date: Fri Mar 1, 2013 11:40 am ((PST))

--- In gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com, "brmscribe at ..." <brmscribe at ...> wrote:
<<< Could someone give me a few online sources for AoA & GoA circlets.
Bailey Rose >>>

Simple patterned 'wire' can be purchased at Rio Grande: 
http://www.riogrande.com/

Enter search 'Patterned wire', and you should see resources for stirling silver and gold filled (not cheep).  There are two copper wire choices.   

Also, check out Metalliferous at: 
http://www.metalliferous.com/
Look for pattern wire, wire strip, copper and brass strip (sheet can be cut down to thinner strips with bench sheers)

Otto Frei:   www.ottofrei.com
Has sterling silver flat patterned wire

That should get you started. 
Cheers, Hillary


To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Circlets
Posted by: "Susan" salambert at yahoo.com salambert
Date: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:50 pm ((PST))

My husband and I have used Tomas the Lapidary for our AOA, GOA, and court barony coronets.  He will be at Gulf Wars.  His prices are good and if you have a problem with the product he will fix it.  Also he will adjust the circle, coronet when you buy it on site.  I mail ordered my coronet and he adjusted it at the next event we were both at.

Baroness Susan Landbeorht


From: Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Crown Coronets
Date: April 14, 2013 10:11:50 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Alice Morrow Harris
<AliceMorrowHarris at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Who pays for all the crowns and coronets?

Who pays for the thrones?  Who pays for the little table between them,
if that's part of the kingdom stock of property?  Who pays for the
pillows?  Who pays for the banners?  If there's a kingdom trailer to
haul it, who pays for that?  In short, who pays for all the property
that is owned by the kingdom and that is handed from crown to crown?

Crowns were not necessarily worn in period.  For example, Henry II
Plantagenet abandoned either most or all of his ceremonial
crown-wearings (I don't recall which), which were held at a few feasts
per year.

Daniel Lincoln


To: EKMetalsmiths at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: medieval crowns
Date: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:29 am (PST). 
Posted by: "Ron Charlotte" al_thaalibi 

On 12/26/2013 10:39 AM, irene purificato wrote:
> I read somewhere (maybe it was here) that the way to put all the gems 
> on medieval crowns was to use tabs.
>
> Do the tabs show on the back?
>
> Irene

That's kind of a "where and when" sort of detail. There are a bunch of 
schemes that were used to mount gems on crowns. _most_ involved 
building a bezel setting of some sort, but some used elaborate filigree, 
some pinned thought the stone like a mounted bead, some used a split 
bezel (which might be what you are thinking of as "tabs").
-- 
Ron Charlotte
Gainesville, FL
ronch2 at bellsouth.net or thaalibi at gmail.com


To: EKMetalsmiths at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: medieval crowns
Date: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:42 pm (PST). 
Posted by: "Charles Anderson"

Tabs? Claws (prongs), maybe? You could make the tabs like claws, and 
you wouldn't see anything on the back at all.

You could use a bezel setting that would be almost un-noticable.

Regards Charles from Oz


From: "willowdewisp at juno.com via Ansteorra" 
Subject: [Ansteorra] neat site brass hats
Date: May 29, 2014 5:16:56 AM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org

hi I found this site looking for something else. It might be out of date but it give a pretty good overview of what people may or may not wear on their heads in each kingdom. Very good for reference.http://www.tomasthelapidary.net/store52/html/documentation/Sumptuary%20Laws%20Compiled.pdf 

Have fun.
Duchess Willow de Wisp. Locked in for the summer.


To: 12thcenturygarb at yahoogroups.com
Subject: 12c crown
Posted by: "Pam Perryman" pam at bobwhitman.com
Date: Thu Jun 5, 2014 9:33 pm ((PDT))

Some time back someone was inquiring about circlets or crowns of the 12th century. The History Blog (http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/category/medieval) posting for April 24, 2014, has a picture of the crown buried with Swedish king Eric IX of Sweden (reigned 1156-60). Clicking on the photo enlarges it so you can see some good detail.

Yseult


To: 12thcenturygarb at yahoogroups.com
Subject: 12c Circlets
Posted by:  pam at bobwhitman.com
Date: Tue Jul 8, 2014 10:12 pm ((PDT))

Found another 12c circlet. The current issues of Histoires et Images Médievales (No. 56) has an article about the items from the Abbaye de Saint-Maurice d'Agaune that are apparently currently on display at the Louvre. One of the pieces is a head reliquary of Saint Candide, from about 1165. It's in the photo album Yseult's Miscellany, the 8th picture.

Yseult

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