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chain-o-estat-msg - 4/11/15


Chain of Estate. Also called "Collar of Estate" or "Collar of Orders", "Collar of Badges" or "Livery Collar". A heavy chain of flat links worn about the shoulders.


NOTE: See also the files: coronets-msg, SCA-Bling-art, casting-msg, pewter-msg, heraldry-msg, alphabets-msg, metals-msg, jewelry-msg, wearng-cornts-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



From: "Debbie H" <reynapaubi at yahoo.com>

Date: September 17, 2010 3:24:54 PM CDT

To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com

Subject: [tri-temp] Need "Official" Name of an Article of Ornamentation


OK, I know there has to be an official description of this particular type of jewelry, but I can't find it anywhere. It was worn by males, the pictures I'm finding are 16th century. It was not worn hanging on the neck, but over the shoulders. It was often (but not always) composed of flat "links" of metal. It was definitely something the elite (nobility, clergy, knights, etc) wore.


There are three pictures here which show the type of item I'm trying to describe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/trimaris-temp/photos/album/1799119862/pic/list

(all three are scanned from _Historic Costume in Pictures_ by Braun & Schneider).


Can anyone help me with the correct word?


Caitilin ni Killane



From: Dianne Russell <cat_herder at comcast.net>

Date: September 17, 2010 3:56:24 PM CDT

To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Need "Official" Name of an Article of Ornamentation


Collars of Estate?

I'm sure that different people/places called them different things.



My only knowledge of them are second/third hand from about 15 years ago.

One guy in our shire wanted to have one and he was told that you have to have a certain number/kind of awards to wear one. I don't know for sure.


I know the Kingdom Officers have ones that I believe are silver with triskeles on them.





From: Elizabeth Bair <countessdulcia at gmail.com>

Date: September 17, 2010 4:05:09 PM CDT

To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Need "Official" Name of an Article of Ornamentation


On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:37 PM, gwenore <gwenore at cfl.rr.com> wrote:

<<< Think this was worn during the English Tudor /

Elizabethan period.

Know Henry VIII and other aristocrats wore it to note

their "station".

That is the best I can do.

Am sure any Laurel (i.e., Countess Dulcia, and others)

who's time period is Tudor / Elizabethan can help you.

Gwenore >>>


<<< In the SCA, they can be made up of the badges of awards you hold, your

heraldry (elements of your arms and/or your badge(s)), or badges of

historical significance to your persona (using the example above, if your

persona is involved in the War of the Roses and is a Lancastrian you might

wear a collar of esses.


In Trimaris the wearing of such a chain is restricted to those holding a

Grant of Arms or higher.


Does that help?


Dulcia >>>


It's called a "Collar of Estate", or sometimes "Chain of Estate", "Collar of

Orders",  "Collar of Badges" or "Livery Collar".  If you're trying to do

research, it may be useful to search ALL the terms and know a bit more about

what each term means.


Technically, in period, each of these names meant something slightly

different but they all refer to a heavy chain of flat links worn about the

shoulders.  A "Livery Collar" is made up of the badge or badges of your

liege lord and shows your fealty or affiliation with that person or house

(for example, the famous collars of esses associated with the House of

Lancaster during the War of the Roses or the alternating roses and suns work

by affiliates of the House of York.).  A "Collar of Badges" could be the

same as a Livery Collar, or it could be a chain made up of your own badges.

A "Collar of Orders" is made up of the badges and/or symbols associated with

a particular Order (in period, it would be an Order of Knighthood (for

example - the Order of the Garter founded by Edward III, King of England, in

the mid-14th century; the collar usually has alternating knots and garters

[surrounding roses], and the pendant is St. George slaying the dragon).  A

"Collar of Estate" or "Chain of Estate" was a collar the used the symbols of

a particular office, such as the Mayor of London or the Royal Exchequer.



From: "Scott" <Scat at cfl.rr.com>

Date: September 17, 2010 10:13:56 PM CDT

To: <trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: Collar of (E)state; was [tri-temp] Need "Official" Name of an Article of Ornamentation


In Meridies and Gleann Abhann, it is also called a collar of estate and

 is restricted to a grant of arms. I have one from Gleann Abhann made up

 of G's and A's. I jokingly refer to it as a collar of State: look it says 



In the SCA I 'think" that the collar of Esses seems to represent
 Heralds rather than Lancasterians.





From: Seamus mac Dhughaill <seamusmacdhughaill at yahoo.com>

Date: September 18, 2010 7:55:30 AM CDT

To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Need "Official" Name of an Article of Ornamentation


Your Grace


It is in Section B. Other Regalia of the Sumptuary laws, # 5.

"Persons holding 
Grants of Arms may wear a collar of badges.



Seamus mac Dhughaill



From: Elizabeth Bair <countessdulcia at gmail.com>

Date: September 19, 2010 7:51:08 AM CDT

To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Need "Official" Name of an Article of Ornamentation


Only the Greater Kingdom Officers receive Chains of Estate in Trimaris
(kingdom seneschal, kingdom exchequer, kingdom herald, kingdom chronicler,
kingdom hospitaler, kingdom minister of art & sciences, and the earl


The chains are silver links of triskeles with a large medalion of
 office hanging from the front. If you serve as a greater kingdom officer 
you have the right to wear the chain of estate during your tenure in office 
regardless of your actual sca rank.


The lessor kingdom offices do not have 
chains of estate at this time.




On Sep 18, 2010 7:27 PM, "Sara Glaze" <sorcha at cfl.rr.com> wrote:


Oh its GOA or higher....I know because I held a Kingdom office but without 
having a GOA I could not wear the collar of maintenance associated with it.


I believe its under the section about the aoa, goa circlets, but can't swear
 to it.






From: "Sara Glaze" <sorcha at cfl.rr.com>

Date: September 19, 2010 4:13:12 PM CDT

To: <trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Need "Official" Name of an Article of Ornamentation


The Kingdom chirurgeons office also has one....when I mentioned to the seneschal that I did not have the GOA required to wear it I was told I could swear feality with it on and then should take it off. Which is what I did.





Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 13:52:34 +0000 (UTC)

From: Elspeth Payne via Atlantia <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>

To: via Atlantia <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>

Subject: [MR] A brief brush with history


Lord Mungo's mention yesterday of the Lord Lyon of Arms reminded me of my brief brush with history in the late 90's.


I lived in Denver and danced for the Denver Pipes and Drums. The drum major is worthy of stories in his own right - he was a craftsman and an artist in several media. You know how Dewar's has a Scottish Pipe Major on their label? He's that Pipe Major. He led their pipe band for something like 15 years, and the current illustration is of him. But back to our regularly scheduled...


At that time, the Lord Lyon's chain of office had been missing for more than three hundred years. There are portraits including it, so we have a fair idea of what it used to look like, and you can track when the Lord Lyon started wearing borrowed chains for ceremonial occasions.


So there was a movement...St. Andrew's Societies all over the world contributed certain sums to buy the gold, and our Pipe Major crafted a new chain, as close to the original as possible. The square links (about 2.5-3" square if I recall) alternated, two different patterns, and on the back of each was the name of the St. Andrew's chapter that had donated the money for that link. On the end was a set of enameled medallions, ending in an oval one (4" long?) that I remember as having a monk on it. The Pipe Major made those, too. The total was a loop a bit more than six feet long (that's not laid out straight, that's looped) of solid gold with enamel medallions on one end. He brought a couple of the links and the finished final medallion to practice one night - that's all of it I ever saw in person.


Our Pipe Major put the finished product in a locking briefcase and sat through an overnight flight to London with it on his lap (he said no handcuffing it on though). Customs wanted to see what was in the case, and he immediately demanded a private room (this was before a lot of people even knew there were private rooms). He said he turned the case toward the Customs guard and opened it, and watched the man's eyes bug out and jaw drop. Of course, he landed very early in the morning, and went directly do-not-stop-do-not-collect-$200 to the Scottish Embassy in London. The nice young man holding down the front desk tried to tell him the ambassador would be in later, he could meet with him then, so he gave the young man the same presentation that he did on the Customs guard. He had the ambassador very quickly, who took the case from him right away and gave him a receipt.

The case was sent via diplomatic courier to Edinburgh. My friend took a more leisurely route. He was allowed to attend the "investment" of the chain - I remember looking at the pictures and being amazed at how many velvet and ermine-trimmed cloaks could be in one ceremony, and how far the chain hangs down the back - I had no idea those things were as long in the back as in the front.


And just think, when the Lord Lyon's portrait is painted three hundred years from now, he could be wearing that very chain. Isn't that cool?

Thanks for letting me ramble on sharing this. If there are any errors in the story, they are entirely due to my own faulty memory after so many years (and not being a principal in this story).


Sorcha Crowe


<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org