bags-baskets-msg - 12/1/11 Items for carrying things in. Period and SCA. NOTE: See also the files: p-backpacks-msg, basketweaving-msg, carts-msg, rope-msg, bucket-yokes-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: bronwynmgn at aol.com (Bronwynmgn) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Basic bag Date: 23 Mar 1998 01:03:12 GMT Anna Horvath writes: >I was trying to think of something to carry extra wool to spin without >adding *another* thingie hanging from my belt Personally, I find a basket to be the best thing for carrying stuff around in. And a great place for hiding needed mundanities like medicine bottles or such. I have a basket with a lid and leather hinges and a handle on round brass hinges (THe Longaberger "small picnic basket" if you're familiar with that company). An open basket with a handle with a piece of cloth to cover the wool and/or other items would work just as well. Mine doubles as a sewing basket; there is always something in it that I am working on. Preferring to sew by hand always gives me something "period" to do at an event! Brangwayna Morgan From: nerak at aol.com (Nerak) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Basic bag Date: 24 Mar 1998 23:32:13 GMT I have always carried a "Day Basket" packed with what I would need until I returned to my encampment. As my years in the SCA have passed, the contents have ranged from diary, camera, diapers, drinks, ibuprofen, sunscreen, not to forget my constantly changing but always present, current portable craft (Spinning, knitting, embroidery.) Naturally the contents for watching the fighting differ from when I go to revel or court. I find a smallish basket with a good strong handle not one that is just tacked onto the top, the handle should rest in the crook of my elbow and my hand on the forward rim for additional support to be the best. Nerak at aol.com From: noramunro at aol.com (Alianora Munro) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 17 Dec 2000 02:44:50 GMT Subject: Re: Baskets? The 18th-c sutlers tend to carry the pack baskets, in an assortment of sizes. Try: http://www.jastown.com/ or http://www.smoke-fire.com/ standard disclaimers and all that ... Alianora Munro, Bright Hills, Atlantia From: nerak at aol.com (Nerak) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 17 Dec 2000 06:29:07 GMT Subject: Re: Baskets? << The 18th-c sutlers tend to carry the pack baskets, in an assortment of sizes. Try: >> The merchant at Pennsic is from "Mountain Trails Baskets" they are very well made slat type baskets (apple basket) and are guaranteed for life---no small print. One was being fixed at Pennsic this year, seems that the owner thew the basket full of SCA gear off the balcony during an apartment fire. Bottom burst when it hit the ground. These are wonderful quality, individually numbered and signed by the craftsman, but are NOT cheap. Nerak at aol.com From: owly at hem.utfors.se Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Baskets? Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:09:24 GMT Organization: Utfors AB Panther Primitives does, their home page is at http://www.pantherprimitives.com/ but to see all their stuff you have to order their catalog I think. Anna de Byxe On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:08:57 GMT, Andrea Gideon wrote: >MotleySong wrote: >> I just spent a good deal of time searching the web for anyone who might sell >> backpack-type wicker baskets. That is, large wicker baskets with straps so >> they can be carried on one's back. I thought something like that might be a >> nice and period-appropriate way for me to transport supplies at events. Can >> any of you folks recommend a merchant? >> >> - Qutudei > >Try jastown.com >They sell to the Rev War reenactment crowd, but I have bought one from them. > >Giovanna From: Heather Rose Jones Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Baskets? Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:59:42 -0800 Organization: University of California at Berkeley MotleySong wrote: > I just spent a good deal of time searching the web for anyone who might sell > backpack-type wicker baskets. That is, large wicker baskets with straps so > they can be carried on one's back. I thought something like that might be a > nice and period-appropriate way for me to transport supplies at events. Can > any of you folks recommend a merchant? I can't recommend a specific merchant, but such things do exist, and turn up on occasion in stores that specialize in baskets and whatnot. In addition to wicker baskets of this type (which usually turn out these days to be rattan rather than willow, but you take what you can get) I've seen ones done from oak splits as well. In medieval illustrations of construction sites or harvests, you can often see "backpack baskets" of this type being used for transport. Tangwystyl ********* Heather Rose Jones hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu ********* From: rocious at my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Baskets? Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:52:21 GMT motleysong at aol.com (MotleySong) wrote: > I just spent a good deal of time searching the web for anyone who might sell > backpack-type wicker baskets. That is, large wicker baskets with straps so > they can be carried on one's back. I thought something like that might be a > nice and period-appropriate way for me to transport supplies at events. Can > any of you folks recommend a merchant? Not wicker, but splits, from LLBean, Freeport, Maine. Very nice. Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 06:45:03 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Haversacks and nefts (??) Jessica Tiffin wrote: > "haversack" as a bag used to carry feast gear to feasts. (The OED > references it as a bag used by soldiers to carry their lunch, 18th > century). Ummm, for what it's worth, and I'm also working from memory, "haver" is an Anglo-Saxon term meaning "oat"; I'll have to look through the back issues or see if there's an index someplace, but there's an article in some issue of PPC about Northern English oatcakes; I _believe_ it mentions a reference to havercakes (more of a bannock than a sgian or scone; in other words, thicker and possibly leavened) in Langland's "Piers the Plowman". Somewhere I also have a text file version of Piers Plowman; it is presumably searchable. Anyway, if this is correct, it might conceivably mean words like havercake, haversack, and haverstraw have some period relevance. I would assume that a haversack might have other uses when the oats have been used up, rather like the things we can do with potato or flour sacks after the potatoes or flour are gone. It may also be that the compilers of the OED simply didn't search through all the right manuscripts and books in determining the earliest known usage in this case -- not unprecedented. Adamantius Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:17:32 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: RE: SC - Haversacks and nefts (??) Haversack is derived from the German Habersack, which literally means oat bag. Linguistic derivation is from Middle High German, habere, Old High German, habaro for oats and sac, bag in both Middle and Old High German from the Latin saccus. I suspect OED is looking at the entry of the term into English from the Austrian and German troops serving with the British Army during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. Bear Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:03:55 -0800 From: Anne-Marie Rousseau Subject: Re: SC - Haversacks and nefts (??) Hey from ANne-Marie for what its worth, I know the term "haversack" is used in the non-SCA re-enactment community as the term for an over the shoulder bag used to carry food, etc. AKA "wallet" (see Alexander Neckhams 12th century writings) or "pilgrams bag". You see TONS of medieval illos showing pilgrims with these handy bags, often sporting a nice coquille st jacques :) (showing that they've been or going to Compostella) --AM To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: travelling ala medieval Posted by: "Pete McKee" p_mckee3 at yahoo.com arrahateck Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 9:53 pm (PDT) --- In Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com, "balanttina" wrote: > next year I am planning to walk an extended Camino (from Torino to > Santiago de Compostella, that's about 2200km). snip > I put > together things I think I will need but would be grateful for any > comments you might have considering the equipment or if you have done > some walking in period garb and have more first-hand experience. snip > carrying gear: > - a wicker back-basket (I don't know an English name for it) or a > wicker trunk (both are here and I can't decide; are there back-baskets > with covers also?: http://www.enluminures.culture.fr/documentation/enlumine/fr/rechexpert e_00.htm) > - a linen shoulder bag > - a linen scrip to carry around the waist that will also act as a > protector from the back-basket, I hope snip > thanks for the answers, guys! I can't wait to start walking! :) > > celestina I've been away for a while, but here's my next contribution. This type of pack basket is readily available from merchants in the U.S. They have been criticised as not being documentable until the late 19th or early 20th century. The fault seems to be in the split wood material rather than the style. My own research on baskets only reaches back to the late 16th century. What I've seen there is willow or root baskets rather than the split wood style. However, over here, these are more readily available than the willow baskets. http://coht.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=18&pos=8 From your list, it appears you have already located a basket. Perhaps the carrying strap arrangement in the photo will be helpful. You asked about a cover for the basket. In this photo, the young lady on the left is carrying one of these baskets with a commercially made top cover. It should be a simple thing to sew one to fit your own basket. http://coht.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=55&pos=3 Protecting the things in the basket from the rain is mostly in the method of packing. Your idea of making canvas bags for separate items works well. In a downpour, you can expect the things on the top and outside layers will get more or less wet. You can also make a canvas liner for your basket to serve as the outermost layer. Pack the things you can least afford to get wet deep in the middle of your other things. I don't use a pack basket, but, I usually have a pair of stockings and a shirt packed deep inside my bedroll. If I'm drenched, I at least have a chance to put something dry next to my skin while the other stuff is drying out. You may want to put your bedding in the middle and surround it with the more "expendable" items. Hope this helps some. Do keep us updated on your progress. Your Camino is the first I've heard of anyone attempting an historical journey in a medieval setting. I am fascinated, and a bit jealous :). Pete McKee To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: travelling ala medieval Posted by: "balanttina" balanttina at yahoo.co.uk Mon Sep 8, 2008 6:20 am (PDT) Here we have no problem getting a wicker basket, they are very common (and period, but there might even be some of the split-wood variety present, I can send some pictures, if you wish). I also know of a self-thought man who makes making baskets a hobby and is actually very good at it. I plan to go to him when the time for harvesting the willow is right. He says in November. But until then I have to figure out what I want and how I want it. And how big. How big baskets are usully used? There are two basic styles, one with narrower bottom and one with the bottom of the same width as the top. The latter, I think, might be better for the journey. How good is wicker at rain protection? If the rain goes through, does it go through all the way, ie leaves the basket through the holes in the bottom, or does it stay in the basket? I thought perhaps to make an inside 'cover' for the basket. You know, so that from the outside it will still look wicker alltogether. The upper straps seem to be at the top rim of the basket, though that again is not always the case. It depends a lot on the hight. I think I might have them a little lower because I am not very tall. I am planning to visit our etnography museum and see if I can get a closer look a some baskets there. The straps seem to be made of either wicker or leather. Unfortunately in the pictures it's almost impossible to tell how they are attached to the basket. The majority suggest that there are simply four horizontal holes in the back of the basket through wich leather straps go (perhaps there is only one strap for one shoulder, forming a circle?), anoher suggests that at the bottom the straps go round the little wickers protruding from the bottom of the basket, yet another might even be something like in the photo you sent, with the strap round the top of the rim, and wicker straps seem to be made at the same time as the basket itself, somehow built into it. > Hope this helps some. Do keep us updated on your progress. Your > Camino is the first I've heard of anyone attempting an historical > journey in a medieval setting. I am fascinated, and a bit jealous :). :o) I have read of a Scandinavian group doing medieval trips but have lost the address of their site. take care, celestina