Home Page

Stefan's Florilegium

bags-baskets-msg



This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

bags-baskets-msg - 12/1/11

Items for carrying things in. Period and SCA.

NOTE: See also the files: p-backpacks-msg, basketweaving-msg, carts-msg, rope-msg, bucket-yokes-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                 AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: bronwynmgn at aol.com (Bronwynmgn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic bag
Date: 23 Mar 1998 01:03:12 GMT

Anna Horvath <emmabean at phnx.uswest.net> writes:
>I was trying to think of something to carry extra wool to spin without
>adding *another* thingie hanging from my belt

Personally, I find a basket to be the best thing for carrying stuff around in.
And a great place for hiding needed mundanities like medicine bottles or such.
I have a basket with a lid and leather hinges and a handle on round brass
hinges (THe Longaberger "small picnic basket" if you're familiar with that
company).  An open basket with a handle with a piece of cloth to cover the wool
and/or other items would work just as well.  Mine doubles as a sewing basket;
there is always something in it that I am working on.  Preferring to sew by
hand always gives me something "period" to do at an event!

Brangwayna Morgan


From: nerak at aol.com (Nerak)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic bag
Date: 24 Mar 1998 23:32:13 GMT

I have always carried a "Day Basket" packed with what I would need until I
returned to my encampment.  As my years in the SCA have passed, the contents
have ranged from diary, camera, diapers, drinks, ibuprofen, sunscreen, not to
forget my constantly changing but always present, current portable craft
(Spinning, knitting, embroidery.)  Naturally the contents for watching the
fighting differ from when I go to revel or court.

   I find a smallish basket with a good strong handle not one that is just
tacked onto the top, the handle should rest in the crook of my elbow and my
hand on the forward rim for additional support to be the best.  

Nerak at aol.com


From: noramunro at aol.com (Alianora Munro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 17 Dec 2000 02:44:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Baskets?

The 18th-c sutlers tend to carry the pack baskets, in an assortment of sizes.
Try:
http://www.jastown.com/

or
http://www.smoke-fire.com/

standard disclaimers and all that ...

Alianora Munro, Bright Hills, Atlantia


From: nerak at aol.com (Nerak)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 17 Dec 2000 06:29:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Baskets?

<< The 18th-c sutlers tend to carry the pack baskets, in an assortment of
sizes.
Try: >>

The merchant at Pennsic is from "Mountain Trails Baskets" they are very well
made slat type baskets (apple basket) and are guaranteed for life---no small
print.  One was being fixed at Pennsic this year, seems that the owner thew the
basket full of SCA gear off the balcony during an apartment fire.  Bottom burst
when it hit the ground.  
        These are wonderful quality, individually numbered and signed by the
craftsman, but are NOT cheap.

Nerak at aol.com


From: owly at hem.utfors.se
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Baskets?
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:09:24 GMT
Organization: Utfors AB

Panther Primitives does, their home page is  at
http://www.pantherprimitives.com/ but to see all their stuff you have
to order their catalog I think.

Anna  de Byxe

On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:08:57 GMT, Andrea Gideon <ahgideon at earthlink.net> wrote:
>MotleySong wrote:
>> I just spent a good deal of time searching the web for anyone who might sell
>> backpack-type wicker baskets.  That is, large wicker baskets with straps so
>> they can be carried on one's back.  I thought something like that might be a
>> nice and period-appropriate way for me to transport supplies at events.  Can
>> any of you folks recommend a merchant?
>>
>> - Qutudei
>
>Try jastown.com
>They sell to the Rev War reenactment crowd, but I have bought one from them.
>
>Giovanna


From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Baskets?
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:59:42 -0800
Organization: University of California at Berkeley

MotleySong wrote:
> I just spent a good deal of time searching the web for anyone who might sell
> backpack-type wicker baskets.  That is, large wicker baskets with straps so
> they can be carried on one's back.  I thought something like that might be a
> nice and period-appropriate way for me to transport supplies at events.  Can
> any of you folks recommend a merchant?

I can't recommend a specific merchant, but such things do exist, and
turn up on occasion in stores that specialize in baskets and whatnot.
In addition to wicker baskets of this type (which usually turn out these
days to be rattan rather than willow, but you take what you can get)
I've seen ones done from oak splits as well.

In medieval illustrations of construction sites or harvests, you can
often see "backpack baskets" of this type being used for transport.

Tangwystyl
*********
Heather Rose Jones
hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu
*********


From: rocious at my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Baskets?
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:52:21 GMT

motleysong at aol.com (MotleySong) wrote:
> I just spent a good deal of time searching the web for anyone who might sell
> backpack-type wicker baskets.  That is, large wicker baskets with straps so
> they can be carried on one's back.  I thought something like that might be a
> nice and period-appropriate way for me to transport supplies at events.  Can
> any of you folks recommend a merchant?

Not wicker, but splits, from LLBean, Freeport, Maine. Very nice.


Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 06:45:03 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Haversacks and nefts (??)

Jessica Tiffin wrote:
> "haversack" as a bag used to carry feast gear to feasts.  (The OED
> references it as a bag used by soldiers to carry their lunch, 18th
> century).

Ummm, for what it's worth, and I'm also working from memory, "haver" is
an Anglo-Saxon term meaning "oat"; I'll have to look through the back
issues or see if there's an index someplace, but there's an article in
some issue of PPC about Northern English oatcakes; I _believe_ it
mentions a reference to havercakes (more of a bannock than a sgian or
scone; in other words, thicker and possibly leavened) in Langland's
"Piers the Plowman". Somewhere I also have a text file version of Piers
Plowman; it is presumably searchable.

Anyway, if this is correct, it might conceivably mean words like
havercake, haversack, and haverstraw have some period relevance. I would
assume that a haversack might have other uses when the oats have been
used up, rather like the things we can do with potato or flour sacks
after the potatoes or flour are gone.

It may also be that the compilers of the OED simply didn't search
through all the right manuscripts and books in determining the earliest
known usage in this case -- not unprecedented.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:17:32 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Haversacks and nefts (??)

Haversack is derived from the German Habersack, which literally means oat
bag. Linguistic derivation is from Middle High German, habere, Old High
German, habaro for oats and sac, bag in both Middle and Old High German from
the Latin saccus.

I suspect OED is looking at the entry of the term into English from the
Austrian and German troops serving with the British Army during the
Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars.

Bear


Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:03:55 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Haversacks and nefts (??)

Hey from ANne-Marie

for what its worth, I know the term "haversack" is used in the non-SCA
re-enactment community as the term for an over the shoulder bag used to
carry food, etc. AKA "wallet" (see Alexander Neckhams 12th century
writings)  or "pilgrams bag". You see TONS of medieval illos showing
pilgrims with these handy bags, often sporting a nice coquille st jacques
:) (showing that they've been or going to Compostella)



To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: travelling ala medieval
Posted by: "Pete McKee" p_mckee3 at yahoo.com   arrahateck
Date: Fri Sep 5, 2008 9:53 pm (PDT)

--- In Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com, "balanttina" <balanttina at ...>
wrote:
> next year I am planning to walk an extended Camino (from Torino to
> Santiago de Compostella, that's about 2200km).

snip

> I put
> together things I think I will need but would be grateful for any
> comments you might have considering the equipment or if you have
done
> some walking in period garb and have more first-hand experience.

snip

> carrying gear:
> - a wicker back-basket (I don't know an English name for it) or a
> wicker trunk (both are here and I can't decide; are there back-baskets
> with covers also?:

http://www.enluminures.culture.fr/documentation/enlumine/fr/rechexpert
e_00.htm)

> - a linen shoulder bag
> - a linen scrip to carry around the waist that will also act as a
> protector from the back-basket, I hope

snip

> thanks for the answers, guys! I can't wait to start walking! :)
>
> celestina

I've been away for a while, but here's my next contribution.

This type of pack basket is readily available from merchants in the
U.S. They have been criticised as not being documentable until the
late 19th or early 20th century. The fault seems to be in the split
wood material rather than the style. My own research on baskets only
reaches back to the late 16th century. What I've seen there is
willow or root baskets rather than the split wood style. However,
over here, these are more readily available than the willow baskets.

http://coht.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=18&;pos=8

From your list, it appears you have already located a basket.
Perhaps the carrying strap arrangement in the photo will be helpful.

You asked about a cover for the basket. In this photo, the young
lady on the left is carrying one of these baskets with a commercially
made top cover. It should be a simple thing to sew one to fit your
own basket.

http://coht.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=55&;pos=3

Protecting the things in the basket from the rain is mostly in the
method of packing. Your idea of making canvas bags for separate
items works well. In a downpour, you can expect the things on the
top and outside layers will get more or less wet. You can also make
a canvas liner for your basket to serve as the outermost layer. Pack
the things you can least afford to get wet deep in the middle of your
other things. I don't use a pack basket, but, I usually have a pair
of stockings and a shirt packed deep inside my bedroll. If I'm
drenched, I at least have a chance to put something dry next to my
skin while the other stuff is drying out. You may want to put your
bedding in the middle and surround it with the more "expendable"
items.

Hope this helps some. Do keep us updated on your progress. Your
Camino is the first I've heard of anyone attempting an historical
journey in a medieval setting. I am fascinated, and a bit jealous :).

Pete McKee


To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: travelling ala medieval
Posted by: "balanttina" balanttina at yahoo.co.uk
Mon Sep 8, 2008 6:20 am (PDT)

Here we have no problem getting a wicker basket, they are very common
(and period, but there might even be some of the split-wood variety
present, I can send some pictures, if you wish). I also know of a
self-thought man who makes making baskets a hobby and is actually very
good at it. I plan to go to him when the time for harvesting the
willow is right. He says in November. But until then I have to figure
out what I want and how I want it. And how big. How big baskets are
usully used?

There are two basic styles, one with narrower bottom and one with the
bottom of the same width as the top. The latter, I think, might be
better for the journey.

How good is wicker at rain protection? If the rain goes through, does
it go through all the way, ie leaves the basket through the holes in
the bottom, or does it stay in the basket? I thought perhaps to make
an inside 'cover' for the basket. You know, so that from the outside
it will still look wicker alltogether.

The upper straps seem to be at the top rim of the basket, though that
again is not always the case. It depends a lot on the hight. I think I
might have them a little lower because I am not very tall. I am
planning to visit our etnography museum and see if I can get a closer
look a some baskets there. The straps seem to be made of either wicker
or leather. Unfortunately in the pictures it's almost impossible to
tell how they are attached to the basket. The majority suggest that
there are simply four horizontal holes in the back of the basket
through wich leather straps go (perhaps there is only one strap for
one shoulder, forming a circle?), anoher suggests that at the bottom
the straps go round the little wickers protruding from the bottom of
the basket, yet another might even be something like in the photo you
sent, with the strap round the top of the rim, and wicker straps seem
to be made at the same time as the basket itself, somehow built into it.

> Hope this helps some. Do keep us updated on your progress. Your
> Camino is the first I've heard of anyone attempting an historical
> journey in a medieval setting. I am fascinated, and a bit jealous :).

:o) I have read of a Scandinavian group doing medieval trips but have
lost the address of their site.

take care, celestina

<the end>




Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org