West-hist-msg – 12/21/14

Histories of the SCA’s West Kingdom.

NOTE: See also the files: SCA-hist1-msg, SCA-stories1-msg, border-stories-msg, placenames-msg, East-hist-msg, Caid-hist-msg, you-know-msg, vanity-plates-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rzex60 at email.mot.com (Jason of Rosaria)
Subject: Verily, I saw the Pandy-Bat (WAS:Re: wacky weapons)
Organization: The Polyhedron Group
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 19:41:03 GMT

Ben Tucker <bentucker at delphi.com> wrote:
> Michael McKay <a-mikem at ac.tandem.com> writes:
>  
> >A typical West Kingdom Purgitorio Corination includes a "pandy-bat"
> >tourney.  The prize goes to the most imagnitive weapons.  I remember
>  
> Okay, I'll bite...
>  
> What is a "Pandy-Bat"  (Other than an interesting title for a song)?
>  
> Owen Alun
> bentucker at delphi.com
>  
> {And who invented it?}

Dredging up ancient memories of the Kingdom of the West, back when An Tir
was still a Principality, back when I believe we only had four (or was it
five?) kingdoms, I recall a scene at a Beltane Coronation ... 

Verily I was there. :-)

I was watching the tourney that day. Most of the serious fighting was done,
and they were doing challenge matches. A fighter stepped onto the field
late in the afternoon. He was bearing a spear as a weapon. Strapped to the
spear was a stuffed toy panda-bear, which someone had sewn black bat-wings
onto. The stuffed toy was about a foot tall, with a similar wingspan. It
jiggled comicly on the end of the spear, as if flying. The Marshals
grimaced, but cried 'Lay On!'. His opponent strolled up and asked 'What the
heck is that?'. The fighter replied 'It's a Pandy Bat', and promptly killed
him with a spear thrust.

The crowd thought it was funny. Fortunately, the felled fighter thought so
too. I got the impression the two fighters were friends. Darned if I can
remember either of their names. I was just a newbie myself at the time.

Soon afterwards we heard of 'Pandy-Bat weapons competitions' at events,
aimed at silly weapons. One criteria was that it has to be possibly more of
a liability to the wielder than to their opponent. We saw the great 'War
Scissors' - made of enough Rattan for three polearms, and wielded florentine
with a loop in each hand. We also saw 'the semi-automatic repeating spear'
- which was disallowed as too effective. It was a rattan spear with a PVC
sleeve on the shaft, through which the spear was rapidly thrust.

Was that the inception of the Pandy-Bat competitions? I think so.

I was there, and that is what I recall. It was also many years ago, and I
may be in error. So many years - so many events. It's hard to say.

Regards,
His Lordship Jason of Rosaria, GdS, JdL, AoA
Member #3016

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com (Linda Levy)
Subject: Re: Many time Kings of the Knowne World
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 17:47:06 GMT

Greetings
  Ahh History.. what does it teach us..

zkessin at world.std.com (Zach) writes:
|> lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com (Linda Levy) writes:
|> 
|> >Greetings from the West
|> 
|> >Possible due to the shortness of the reigns, we seem to hold the
|> record
|> >unless anyone can beat Duke Radnor of Gildemar who won 8 crown
|> >tournements.
|> >(there a trivia question there, since he only reigned 7 times. Is he
|> the
|> >only crown prince who has been forced to abdicate?
|> Why? Can someone explain why he abdicated, and what the kingdom did
|> during when he would have been king?
|> 
|> Guiliem Wodehouse (MKA Zachary Kessin)
|> In service to The Barony of Carolingia And the East Relm 
|> zkessin at world.std.com

WARNING !!!! 2nd HAND INFO. corrections requested!!

It was discovered after Radnor won the Crown, that the corporate office
had not gotten around to entering his ladies name on the membership rolls 
before the previous months deadline, dispite having recieved her check and
form(proof was the date the check was cashed) LONG before the deadline.

The coproration decided that rules were rules, and that even if it was a
clerical error, his lady was not eligabile to be Queen. They were nice 
enough to offer to let him pick a new lady, but that violated everything 
that we have been told about favors and inspiration, and he declined.

the Kingdom then held what became known as "Crownatorio", on the date of 
the regularlly scheduled Purgatorio coronation. Saturday, they held a Crown
lists, that only those that had entered the previous list were allowed to 
fight in. The winner was crowned king (as scheduled) the next day. the only
difference was that we had no crown prince for the summer .

linda of the lakelands(west)
lindal at mfg.sgi.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com (Linda Levy)
Subject: Re: Many time Kings of the Knowne World
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 23:02:04 GMT

litch at bga.com (Michael Litchfield) writes:
|> In article <Cr3AqJ.F2x at odin.corp.sgi.com>,
|> Linda Levy <lindal at goddess.mfg.sgi.com> wrote:
|> >The coproration decided that rules were rules, and that even if it was a
|> >clerical error, his lady was not eligabile to be Queen. They were nice
|> >enough to offer to let him pick a new lady, but that violated everything 
|> >that we have been told about favors and inspiration, and he declined.
|> >
|> >linda of the lakelands(west)
|> 
|> why the hell do we put up with that sort of bullshit?
|> 
|> If we really believed in the things we say we do (oftn called the dream)
|> we would focus on the truth and not the lies of the rules.
|> 
|> What should have been done is that every one on that list field should
|> have yeilded to him in the second tourney, 

OOPs left out the fact that he was not allowed to fight in the replacement
tourney.  Needless to say, his household has not had warm fuzzys for the
corporation since then.

then someone should have found the
|> idjit responsible and taken them for a ride.
|> 
|> -Michael
|> 

lindal at mfg.sgi.com

From: lukemingst at aol.com (LukeMingst)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Duke Radnor of Gildemar
Date: 13 Jun 1994 04:45:04 -0400

In article <1994Jun11.110550.17243 at muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>,
millsbn at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Bruce Mills) writes:

The "Crownatorio" you are refering to occured in August AS XXI.  (I'm
quoting _The Page_ here.)  Though I was at the event, I don't
remember it's CE time frame.  I think it might have been the year
1987.

This was the regularly scheduled Purgatorio that had been
restructured to have a tournament on the first day,  the winner being
crowned the next.

I do not remember any requirement (sp?) that those fighting in the
new list had to have fought in the previous one.  This is not to say
there wasn't, but I don't remember any.

The new tournament was won by Steven of Beckenham, the man who had
lost to Duke Radnor in the previous finals.  Many thought that he was
supposed to have been awarded the throne immediately upon Radnor's
disqualification.  (Indeed, some of these people called to
conngratulate him on becomming king even before he had heard that
Radnor was disqualified.)

I am not sure why Radnor was not allowed to fight in the new tourney.
For all I know the memberships still weren't up to date by then.

Lord Vlasta Ulvaeus

     Vinhold, Mists, WEST

From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Many time Kings of the Knowne World
Date: 8 Jun 1994 21:11:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

Petrea Mitchell <pravn at gm.dev.com> wrote:
>	I've heard it told that there once was a move to create the
>rank of `Archduke' for those who had reigned something like six 
>times or more, with Greyhelm in particular in mind. One of Grey-
>helm's first acts the next time he became King was stop all that.

Hi, Petrea.

You have the right of it, except it wasn't Greyhelm, it was
Henrik of Havn.  Henrik had already reigned five times, and one
of his former squires (Stephen Black Eagle?) was on the throne
and enacted the rank of Archduke for those who had reigned six
times, "because," he said, "it looks as if we will soon be in
need of such a title."  Well, guess who won the next Crown.  And
no sooner had Henrik set his bottom on the throne than he
abolished the rank of Archduke, and that took care of that.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
(Petrea's aunt)
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
PRO DEO ET REGE

From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: What The Eric IS
Date: 28 Jun 1994 22:03:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

Harold Kraus Jr <harald at ksu.ksu.edu> wrote:
>I asked:
>>>What were the four colors of the original "eric"?
>
>Dorothea answered:
>>Red, white, and yellow; only over time they all faded to an
>>anonymous uniform grey.  There wasn't any fourth.
>
>Really?  Oh well, what were the other names refered to in the KWH?
>(e,i. Eric the "Red")  (If this isn't SCA urban legend.)

OK, it was like this.  We got big enough to need something to
mark off the fighting area from the spectating area.  So Marynel
of Darkhaven and her mother Ellen Cross Quills (now in Paradise)
went to a cheap-fabric place and bought lots of cheap fabric in a
soft red color, because that was the cheapest thing they had at
the moment.  Marynel and Ellen sewed the fabric into long strips
umpteen feet long and about eight inches high, with vertical
sleeves at regular intervals, and Master Beverly Hodghead twisted
wire into ~ foot-high spikes to fit into the sleeves.  It was a
nice area boundary marker, and we called it "Eric the Red."

But we kept growing and after a while the Eric wasn't big enough
any more, so Marynel and Ellen went back to the cheap fabric
place but they didn't have any more cheap red fabric.  So they
bought lots of cheap yellow fabric and made it up and called it
"The Yellow Peril."

And again, they went back to the fabric store and got cheap white
fabric and called it "The Great White Hope" or "The White
Russian."

But by now it was all a sort of dingy grey and we called it
generically "The Eric."

I vas dere, Sharlie.....

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West				UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu

From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCAdians authors (and authors who include SCA in their works)
Date: 28 Aug 1994 23:52:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

David Schroeder  <ds4p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>  Back in the ancient days, weren't events often held in
>  conjunction WITH science fiction conventions (like Baycon 
>  in '68, for example)?  ....

OK, I just answered Bertram by mail but I'll mention it here too.
I can think of a couple of demos we gave at cons in early years that
were attended by numerous science-fiction pros.  Westercon 20
in Los Angeles in 1967, for instance, where both Harlan Ellison
and Fritz Leiber showed up and fought (about one bout apiece).
And of course there was Baycon in Berkeley in 1968, at which
some fans from New York and Chicago saw us and said, "Cool!
We want to do this too!" and went home and founded the East and
Middle Kingdoms.  Larry Niven was at Baycon; I don't know whether
he attended the demo.  (It's been, what, twenty-six years.)  I
don't know whether the Heinleins attended Baycon at all; his
health was getting rather fragile by then, and also he was so
horrendously popular from _Stranger in a Strange Land_ that it
was risky for him to go out in public, lest he be grokked to
death by water-brother wannabees.  I remember John Campbell was
there, though, and was very interested, and murmured something
about picking up a sword.  But he was getting on in years too,
and I think his wife convinced him not to.

So if we count demos, that's another few names.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
PRO DEO ET REGE

From: becks2 at aol.com (Becks2)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Duke Radnor of Gildemar
Date: 28 Aug 1994 01:21:08 -0400

millsbn at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Bruce Mills) writes:

Welllllllllll,  How interesting.  My name is Duke Stephen of
Beckenham....the dubious winner of that (in)famous Crown Tournament.  His
Grace, Radnor was fighting for his lady wife, Isabeau, who was later found
not to be an actual member of the SCA.  Not that anyone really had a
problem with it, other than those who insist that the "book" be followed,
especially by those they do not particularly like.  Sigh.  Anyway, he was
given the option of ruling with another consort, which he immediately, and
quite honorably, did NOT accept. 

All fighters who were in the June Crown lists were allowed to fight at
Puratorio (Crownatorio, or Purganation). So, 3 months passed (almost).  It
was probably about a month before this all hit the fan.  Honestly, I do
not remember whether Radnor was allowed to fight or not.  It seems to me
that Isabeau could not be a member by that time (no check was received at
the registrar, and it usually takes TOO long for memberships to process),
as well as the stink that came up with Radnor fighting for someone not a
member.  

Yep, I did receive congratulatory phone calls prior to finding much of
this out.

Rolf, the King at the time, was hard pressed to make a decision as whether
to have the list be refought or to pass the Crown on to me.  I was given
the option, and I, being new at the time, asked for a bit of time to think
it over.  Not long after, and after much discussion with people I
respected, His Grace being one of them, I mentioned to the King that it
was his decision, as it was His Kingdom, not mine.

The list was refought, at the August Purgatorio.  Coronation Court was
held about an hour after the lists were completed. UGH! 

Memories are fun, eh?  Duke Stephen.....

From: foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Trashing the SCA (Rumor CTRL)
Date: 7 Dec 1994 09:35:55 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN

Re: bad publicity for the SCA, I was really bored the other day, and caught
a syndicated rerun of _Unsolved Mysteries_ and it seems they are still 
running the nastily slanted report on the SCA  member in CA who was murdered/
committed suicide.
I thought the SCA lawyers got them to stop this one after it was first aired.

AdR

From: jearley at aol.com (J EARLEY)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Trashing the SCA (Rumor CTRL)
Date: 8 Dec 1994 12:50:18 -0500

foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox) writes:

regarding the Unsolved Mysteries episode about the deathe of Kurt
Mcphall(sp)( It has been a long time people) I was King of the West at the
time of this tragedy, and had to deal with adverse publicity, and
ignorance of the SCA on the part of the SFPD.  I had lengthy conversations
with Officer Sandy Gallant, who investigated 'cult' crimes for the SFPD. 
She was open minded and intelligent.  Hillary Powers also talked with her
and convinced Sandy that we were OK.  We had a good relationship that
helped during the case and later when the SCA was attacked by a
fundamentalist police lt. in Boise Id.  If you have any trouble with
publicity because of this episode, please call Officer Gallant.  She can
probably help clear things up.
     To this date, the case is still unsolved(as far as I know).  Most of
the problems that the SCA had were caused by Kurt's father, who was
convinced that the SCA had something to do with the death.  The SCA did
not succeed in removing this episode from the air.  If you listen
carefully to the dialog, the SCA is not implicated in the crime.  The two
worst things in the episode were the notorius 'ambush' interview with
Hillary, and the fact that no clear distinction was made between the SCA
and Gabriel Carillo's shamanistic classes.  James Earley   

From: RWESTMARCH at aol.COM
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: DINOSAURS--Re: Sir Jon -not an old timer
Date: 28 Jun 1995 12:07:22 -0400

THANKYOU !!!    At my very first practice session I borrowed the great Sir
Jons gauntlets to try a pole weapon and Duke Paul broke my fingers anyway ( I
spent 3 hours in the hospital waiting room and still didn't have the courage
to tell the doctor what really happend).  Recently the Prince of Cynagua
announced that when I was knighted; GOD was a cubscout.  I've felt terrible
since.  NOW I am a punk kid again!!!  (besides, as I recall GOD had just made
Eagle Scout).     :)  :)  :)      robert       (Robert of Westmach KSCA, OP,
etc.)   (SunsetShire,   Principality of the Mists,  Kingdom of the West)

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Fighting with Schlaggers
Date: 4 Oct 1995 15:46:29 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

Joe Bethancourt (ioseph at primenet.com) wrote:

: Hell, while we're at it, lets ban tentstakes with ropes attached! They're
: plumb DANGEROUS at night! And let's get rid of those pointy parts on our
: coronets! Someone might sit on them and hurt themselves!
                    ^^^^^
"Might"? Been done; Principality of the Mists; immortalized in verse by 
the prince's own bard.

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for Book - Murder At The War?
Date: 28 Oct 1996 17:42:13 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley

Chris and Elisabeth Zakes <moondrgn at flash.net> wrote:

>Correct. What *I* want to know is, why did the chirurgeons (not to
>mention his lady) ever let Sir Geoffrey wander away with such a head
>injury? 

Possibly they didn't realize how bad it was.  Head injuries
sometimes take a while to manifest themselves (it's a matter of
effusion of blood into the brain, I understand).  Perhaps Sir
Geoffrey took the head blow, said, "Good!", fell down, got up,
said, "Yes, that *was* a good one," and wandered off to get some
Gatorade.  And just kept wandering, while people's backs were
turned.

Which reminds me....

'Way back in AS III, the Society did a fighting demo at Baycon at
the Claremont in Berkeley.  We hadn't learned all the tricks
about doing demos yet--such as, "if the blow looks good, take it;
don't confuse the audience.

So Duke Richard of Mont Real took a head blow and stopped to
discuss it with his opponent and the nearby marshals, while the
audience shifted and fumed, for a minute or two.  They decided
the blow was good.  So Richard turned to the audience and said,
"You know, it's a funny thing about these head wounds, my lords
and ladies, you can take one and feel fine for a minute or two,
and then suddenly...." [falls over] [CLUNK]

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                        UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable           djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
PRO DEO ET REGE

From: Megan nic Alister of Thornwood <megan at wco.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aten's Principality of the Sun Coronet Tourney invalidated
Date: 31 Jan 1997 03:16:17 GMT

>In a recent case in the West, when a Coronet Tourney was held a
>few weeks after the Crown Tourney, the incumbent Prince noted
>that a certain fighter had not had a valid membership at the time
>of Crown, and had spoken to the fighter a week before Coronet,
>warning him that if he intended to fight in Coronet he must get
>his membership renewed; the fighter said he would do so.
>
>A week later, at Coronet, the fighter won the tournament.  
>
>A week (roughly) before Investiture, the Prince learned not only
>that the victorious fighter had not renewed his membership by
>the time of Coronet, he *still* had not renewed it and showed no
>signs of being about to renew it before he was invested.
>
>Thereupon the Prince, using phone trees and email, announced that
>the Coronet Tourney was invalidated, that a new lists would be
>fought as the first event at Investiture, and that the
>investiture of the new victor and consort would take place at
>what hour they chose (this was a weekend event, so they had the
>choice of Saturday evening or any time Sunday).
>
>And this was done.

Snip

>Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt
>Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California
>PRO DEO ET REGE                                  djheydt at uclink

Not True ... the fighter's membership in the SCA was current and valid.  
His fighter's authorization card had expired.  Two totally different 
things, but the decision was that it invalidated the coronet tournament.

Countess Megan nic Alister of Thornwood, OP

PS - I know the facts since the fighter in question is my lord's squire 
and a friend.

Subject: Re: minstrel: Re: ANST - Mooneschadowe Guardian Results
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 10:09:42 MST
From: "Fred (Flieg) Hollander" <flieg at socrates.Berkeley.EDU>
To: "Mike C. Baker" <kihe at ticnet.com>, <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

[.trim.]

>(I note for the general edification of the reading populace that Ansteorra
>is a bit unusual in the eyes of other SCA kingdoms in that we do grant
>the so-called "naked" Grant of Arms from time to time.  There are
>typically particular reasons why the Grant is made separate from
>one of the Grant-bearing Companionships / "Orders" / Court Baronies,
>and it is that additional information which leaves me most curious.)

  Hoom...
  Inter-Kingdom Anthro time. West Kingdom only has one Grant Bearing
Order and it hasn't been given in a coon's age. Almost all of our Grants
are "naked". (And Court Barony only carries an AoA -- and the right to wear
as cool a hat as you think you can get away with.)
  Anyway, in no Kingdom I know are Grants "cheap".

   *   *   *    Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc.
  *|* *|* *|*   flieg at socrates.berkeley.edu
 |===========|
  (((Flieg Hollander, Chemistry Dept., U.C. Berkeley)))
 ====================== Old Used Duke  =====================
 [All subjects of the Crown are equal under its protection.]

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - scadianisms

> The use of "eric" is part of the SCA culture deriving (as I
> understand it) from the old red ribbon/fabric used to mark the list field
> which was fondly called "Eric the Red" by those who used it... It was later
> shortened to Eric and extrapolated by others to denote the list boundary
> long after the orignal "eric" was no longer used.
>
> Or so I have been told.
>
> Caitlin of Enniskillen

Other than it was red rope, not ribbon, your story
is correct.  Master John ap Griffin provided the
rope for the West Kingdom in the very, very early
days of the SCA.  He used to be a rope salesman.

Huette

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:38:50 -0800
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] catering peerage meetings.

david friedman wrote:
> >The baby Knight in Lochac is supposed to bring the beer, and the
> >baby Laurel, chocolate.
>
> I think that goes with my story of the kingdom that once awarded a
> Laurel for photography.

I know who you are talking about.  I think that is the kingdom of your
current residence, is it not?  I had thought perhaps that this elevation
was made before the invention of the Order of the Pelican, but closer
examination of the West Kingdom timeline and various orders of
precedence reveals otherwise;  the West Kingdom Order of the Pelican was
established in 1974 while the elevation was in 1978.  Possibly an
argument could be made for the Science of History-keeping, but really it
must remain one of those wacky SCA inconsistancies that keep life
interesting.

Much water has passed beneath the bridge, the barony of her residence
has passed to a younger kingdom,  photography [while a visual medium] is
more generally regarded as a service to the realm, and the lady in
question, while very much alive, has lived with the effects of a stroke
and attends about one event per year in a wheelchair and lots of help.
But you know what?  She still brings her camera with her every time.

Fondly, Selene

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Do sheet walls still make Westerners boggle?
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:51:01 GMT

Arval  <arval at mittle.users.panix.com> wrote:
>The first times I escorted west-coast Societyfolk around Pennsic, one
>of the things that blew their minds was the boundaries around camps.
>I didn't really understand why until I went to West-An Tir war about

The one time I went to Pennsic, the West Kingdom camp area was
delineated by the back edges of the tents, and by a symbolic
gateway made of scrap timber.  It was what we could get.
Practically everything we had brought had flown in with us.  And,
recall, most of us don't get to Pennsic very often.

It was long ago on this very bridge, and I forget who said it,
that for people east of the Rockies going to Pennsic is like
going back to your home town for Thanksgiving.  You live in the
same spot you always live in, you do the things you always do
this time of year, you see all your old friends and relatives you
see at no other time.  Whereas for those of us west of the
Rockies, going to Pennsic is like making the pilgrimage to
Jerusalem: long planned-for, performed at great sacrifice and
effort, long remembered.

>10 years ago: Tents were plopped down any old way, without any
>boundaries, roads, or any organization at all that I could see.

I can't speak for An Tir, though in many cases they do things
like the West of which they used to be a part, but at Western
events the tourneymasters do lay out the site with boundaries and
roads and so forth.  And then people come in, and they come in in
droves, and they come in in the middle of the night, and they set
up wherever they can, and sometimes they set up in the roads
because they couldn't see the markers or because there is
literally nowhere else to set up.  And when asked to move,
sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't, because there is
nowhere else to go.

There is also nothing like the land allocation before the fact
that Pennsic does, because we camp at many different sites and
the tourneymasters generally get access to it only a few hours
before the populace starts arriving (e.g., Friday noon and 3 pm
respectively).

I've only been to Pennsic once.  My impression was of a very large
group, but an even larger area to camp in.  If we have a large
group (and West Kingdom events frequently go over a thousand
attendees), and a not-large-enough area, we wind up camping in
each other's laps.

>People routinely walked directly through the middle of other people's
>campsites, and were astonished when I commented on that behavior.

At the point I described above, people sometimes *have* to walk
through one another's camps, though they are generally courteous
enough to ask leave, and give thanks when they get it.

Now, if KHTI ever finds a suitable site and buys it, then the
West can start setting up boundaries and roads that are, if not
permanent in the true sense, at least the same from event to
event.  Currently the only stable elements are that the Eric (the
lists boundary) will be set up somewhere, the Royal Pavilion will
be set up on it (probably with its back to the setting sun), and
several other official pavilions and sunshades will be set up in
proximity to it.  All else is first come, first served.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE                               djheydt at kithrup.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Trimaran Crown List Cancelled
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:12:01 GMT

Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:
>I remember when Ealdormere's principality tourney had to be scheduled
>or re-scheduled at the last minute.  They sent a postcard to every
>subscriber of _The Pale_: the back had the date, place, occasion, and
>a few other details, whatever could fit in the top half of a postcard.
>The bottom half had something like "This is an extraordinary edition
>of The Pale ..." followed by all the usual boilerplate (subscriptions
>are available via, copyright, all that).  It was the smallest SCA
>newsletter I've ever seen.

Indeed.  That is even smaller than the extraordinary issue of the
Page which my lord and I had to send out when we were editing it
(back in the days of a hand-cranked mimeograph dating from about
1982 CE) to notify everyone that at a recent event, widely
attended, there had been a lady present who was subsequently
diagnosed with German measles.  I think that one came to two
pages.  Positively large compared to the one you describe.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE                               djheydt at kithrup.com

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:49:26 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feasts Per Year
To: sca-cooks at ansteorr.org

Samrah wrote:
>  How about a sound-off by kingdom as to how many feasts per year (kingdom,
>  baronial, shire, whatever), how man served & price per plate?

Here's what i know of. Comments are based in part on personal
experience, memories from previous event copy, and info from the West
Kingdom Calendar
http://www.westkingdom.org/calendar/Calendar0405.html

Note i've been in the SA 5-1/2 years and from spring of 1999 to the
fall of 2000 i had no car and only attended limited events, and in
2004 i had a lot of car trouble and only attended limited events. So
I have attended a limited number of non-Kingdom, non-Principality of
the Msts, non-Province of the Mists events.

ATTENDANCE - varies. Small ones are for 30-50, large ones (by our
standards) for 70-100.

COST - varies. Good ones cost attendees about $15 (which includes
site fee) and the cooks get to spend about $7/head; some ar $7 (i
don't know what the cooks get to spend of this).

NUMBER - looks like there's an average of three feasts per month
within the kingdom.

WEST KINGDOM - No Feasts, None (although sometimes there's a period
pot-luck lunch at the Collegia (when we have them)

PRINCIPALITY OF THE MISTS (NoCal Coastal region) - Three feasts -
sometimes four
-- MAY - Spring Investiture (60-80)
-- SEPT - Bardic Competition and Feast (60-100)
-- NOV - Fall Investiture (60 - it usually rains and it's dark so 
many folks leave before the meal)
One Fall Investiture autocrat had us twice cook for an estimated 100
attendees, but there has never been that many in the 5 years of them
i've attended.
-- COLLEGIUM - when there is one (when the is no Kingdom collegium in 
the Principaliy) there IS a feast for 60-100

PRINCIPALITY OF CYNAGUA (NoCal Central Valley, Sierra Mountains, plus
a bit of NoNevada)
None i know of - doesn't mean there are none
(their Winter and Summer Investitures are camping events)
I will be cooking a private Cynguan feast for about a dozen

PRINCIPALITY OF OERTHA (Alaska)
two investitures... i'm not sure about others

LOWER LEVELS
There are MANY feasts on the Shire, Province, Barony, and Canton
level. Most of the ones that serve food set a 50 attendee limit, butsome like the Province of the Mists Boar Hunt can serve between
70-100 (which i've assisted once, head cooked twice and attended
twice).

The Principality of the Mists contains three baronies (one of which
has four cantons), seven shires, two provinces, ad two colleges.

The Principality of Cynagua contains two baronies, fourteen shires,
two provinces, and one college.

The Principality of Oertha contains three baronies, one canton, and
one college listed on the West Kingdom website, but it looks like
thee may be more subdivisions.

The Marches are within the Kingdom, but not within any Principality.
Some of these areas may be somewhat restricted in their activities,
especially those located on military bases. There's a Barony in
Alaska, two in Northern Clifornia (one has a college, one has a
canton), and one for the whole Pacific Rim (which has one canton,
three strongholds and one vale). There are also two shires in The
Marches in NoCal.

I don't know if the Canton - now Incipient Shire - of Pavlovsk Gaann
is in the Principality of Oertha or the Barony of Earngyld in The
Marches.

Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:12:40 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Creative Supplimentation
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Celia des Archier wrote:
> One of the things that has been a bit of culture shock since I moved out
> here has been the difference in cultural attitudes about feasting.  The
> first SCA folks I met out here were very kind and invited me to travel with
> their household with the upcoming Portrero War.  In an effort to repay them
> for their kindness I offered to play "camp Mom" and plan the meals,
> expecting to stay as "period" or "perioid" as possible, which shocked them.
> The idea of trying to at least contribute to the "illusion" by including
> period and perioid foods seemed foreign to them (as did the idea that their
> kids might actually enjoy those foods ;-)   I later found that the vast
> majority of the events here were 1 day events, or if they were two day
> events they concluded in the evening of day 1 and resumed on day 2.  The
> exception seemed to be the few large wars.  Again, I haven't had the chance
> to attend any events yet, and I've just recently renewed my membership, so
> this impression was obtained primarily second and third hand, by talking to
> folks, but out here feasting seems to be the exception rather than the rule,
> whereas in the Southeast it is almost always integral to the event.

Caid, as i understand (having "played" there during the summer of
1988), has few camping event - most are, indeed, day-trip only.

I live in The West and most of our events at most levels are camping
(Kingdom, Principality, Barony, and occasionally Shire). Before my
back got really bad, i cooked mostly "period" food at events (now i
have days when i can't even lift the Coleman camp stove which really
weighs very little - and  on every day standing for extended periods
causes back pain).

But how people feel about the food is rather individual. I have a
number of friends who try to make mostly "period" food and i know
people for whom a camping event is mostly hot dogs and diet soda. So
i couldn't make blanket opinions about cultural attitudes.

Most feasts i've attended in branches of The West (since there are
few Kingdom level feasts) have been "period". Pot-luck feasts are
often not, but even then some contributors bring "period" food. Yet i
hear rumors that in some other kingdoms, "period" feasts are the
exception.

Now, as to what events have feasts, that is extremely variable from
place to place.

We have few feasts at our camping events. Since the vast majority our
camp sites have no available water, no showers, no electricity, and
porta-potties only (the exceptions being two county fair sites), it's
hardly surprising that we rarely have feasts at camping events. There
are a few exceptions - a recent shire event made arrangements to use
two large pavilions to shelter diners - i cooked for 150 for a
privately-sponsored feast at a kingdom event a couple years ago - and
i have attended a couple Mists Principality camping events that have
had pot-luck feasts.

However, we have a fair number of feasts at one-day branch events,
most of which serve "period" food.

So, it depends.

I'm always amazed to hear about Kingdoms that have camping events in
which people sleep in cabins and have feasts cooked in "feast halls"
that have electricity and plumbing!

More SCA inter-kingdom anthropology... or perhaps cultural geography...
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:35:10 -0700
From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] IKA - head table seating? - Western
	traditions
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

We have had 3 Crowns a year (March, June and October) from the beginning, so
it is really everyong else who did it differently.  And I've heard it was
because we can, weatherwise.  The Principalities here have 6 month reigns
just like everyone else.  Not sure how that happened or why.

Another interesting inter-kingdom difference is the way Royalty change.
Some years ago, I was horrified when the Mists Royalty changed in a hostile
takeover!  I was told that in other Kingdoms this was normal!?!  Well, I
have since experienced a stabbed and dying Prince give the Principality to
his heir and a Prince who decide to become a monk.  Personally, I much
prefer the joyful and regal transfer of Crowns and Coronets to the heirs.
Many HAPPY tears.   And why, I ask, did all the examples above happen 
in the Principality of the Mists?

Viscountess Katira
proud defender of the West and Western traditions

> From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
>> Sitting Royalty, or counts and dukes and viscounts?
>> If it's just sitting Royalty, how many do you have?
>> Most places have four couples at the most: King, Queen, Prince,
>> Princess, and their heirs.
>>
>> Mordonna (inquiring minds want to know)
>>
>> K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> This doesn't happen often, as we have so many Royals at
>> any given time, it is usually the problem of fitting in a large enough
>> table to hold them all.
>
> Well see, it's like this. The West Kingdom seems to kill off their Royalty
> much more often than do the other kingdoms (kinda like the Byzantines), so
> they need to keep more than the usual pair of spares around.
>
> Stefan

Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:36:20 -0700
From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic Article - West Kingdom History Site
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

The West Kingdom has a History site with pictures and event descriptions of
as many events (from the beginning) as possible.  Here are the memories of
those who were there starting with what led up to the first event.

http://history.westkingdom.org/Year0/index.htm

click on [year 1] to check out the flyer for that first event and  
pictures.

Katira al-Maghrebiyya

Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:32:25 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Tiki Torch Recall
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Stefan wrote:
>   Selene mentioned:
>> We don't even bother buying this in Fire Danger Land, aka Caid.  Tiki
>> torches are not allowed at any of our war sites.
>
> At all? Or just when there is a "a no open flames" restriction? What
> do you mean by "our war sites"? Do you mean all outside camping  
> events?
>
> Tiki torches, at least in the generic sense and not a specific brand,
> are rather common in Ansteorra. Of course they may be restricted at
> particular events which are under a "no open flames ban".

Here in the West, Tiki Torches (generic) are utterly totally
thoroughly irrevocably forbidden at our events - since most are
camping - and there's no reason to have then at the one-day events.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Eric, was feast organization/service question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Margarite wrote:
>>> There have been events with pot-luck feasts on the Eric
>>
>> what do you mean by Eric? I've seen this used before but I don't  
>> know what it means. (I'm in Ansteorra)

Well, Caid is, and probably always will be, a Western rite Scadian Kingdom.  We
still call the tourney field "the eric".  Although, I thought that the rope itself was red, and not just the flags.  It wouldn't surprise me if that  
first rope had been purchased by Master John ap Griffin [John Trimble] because he and his wife Mistress Flavia [Bjo Trimble] joined in A.S. 1 and because he had been a rope salesman for many many years before his retirement.  I had heard that the reason the rope was red was because the red rope wasn't selling well and he got it at a substantial discount, so that a lot of rope was purchased for  
relatively little money.

Huette, who wasn't there at the time.  I didn't join until 1974.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: The Fix is In
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:45:13 GMT

<quietire at popmail.com> wrote:
>Duke Havordh Aettarbani fighting for Duchess Mary Grace of Gatland has
>won Glean Abhain's Crown Tourney. Gee, they just stepped down a couple
>months ago. Sounds like a fix.

Not knowing you, or them, I don't know if your tongue is in your
cheek or not.

But I recall the time in the West Kingdom (several decades ago)
when the Crown of the West was won, and worn, by James Greyhelm
and Paul of Bellatrix, turn and turn about, for two solid years
(that's three reigns each).  More recently, Jade of Starfall has
been King of the West every other reign for several years
running, though recently he's slowed down a little.  There was no
fix in: James and Paul in their day, and Jade in his day, were
simply the best damn fighters in the West, and could win Crown
any day they set out to do so.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE                               djheydt at kithrup.com

Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:49:30 -0800
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feast costs/budgets
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Mykael Halfdan wrote:
<<< On another but related topic. The first feast I did on my own I had done all the research, planning and most of the purchasing (using up most of the budget) when I was informed, the weekend before the event, that I was also expected to prepare breakfast for Saturday and Sunday, all out of the same budget. When I questioned this I was informed that it was a standard expectation in our Kingdom (Meridies). 

I satisfied this commitment but it was an extremely long day and if not for a very dedicated staff feast would have suffered. I have done a couple of more small feasts since then and have made accommodations for breakfast. 

Is this a standard practice throughout the SCA? I find that this really impacts my focus on feast and would like to find some way to pass on breakfast. Should I consider a written contract that specifies my "services" for feast? >>>

The West Kingdom does no feasts regularly. Most of our Kingdom events
(3 Crowns, 2 Coronations, A&S Tourney - not counting wars) are
camping, often at undeveloped sites. Our Twelfth Night Coronation is
usually held at a hotel and is strictly BYO-food. The only occasional
West Kingdom feasts are at our Collegia, which are usually held once
or twice per year at schools, and sadly not well attended. Whether or
not there is a feast depends on the site. Schools do not give us
access to their real kitchens for legal reasons, so we must use the
room where they teach "home ec." (don't know what it's called these
days), *if* they have a room for this. And when they do, they often
have quite old and malfunctioning electric stoves.

The Principalities do their own thing (hey, we're in NoCal). I
confess ignorance over exactly what Oertha (Alaska) does - i'm sure
some Oerthan on this list can set us straight. The Principality of
the Mists, where i live and cook, has three feasts per year: two
Investitures, and the Bardic Competition and Feast. I *think* the
Principality of Cynagua has feasts at their Investitures, but i've
never attended.

Branches often sponsor feasts, and the majority of feasts within the
borders of the Kingdom are at branch events. Most branch events are
one day or one evening, although there are some that are weekend
camping. IIRC, the Barony of Darkwood has two feasts per year, while
the Barony of the Westermark has one (i don't know about Baronies in
Cynagua or Oertha). What the smaller branches do is varied, from no
feasts, to potlucks, to actual sit-down-&-be-served feasts. How
"period" they are is also quite varied.

Our feasts have never been truly large. They've tended to top out
around 80 at the nost, although i have cooked for 100 and 150. In
order to no longer be impoverishing their sponsors, within the
Principality of the Mists there is now a standardized size: 60 diners
and no more than $600. Our Royalty and their immediate retainers are
comped, so we are really feeding up to 72 on that budget, since up to
3 sets of royalty may show up.

I also don't know much about what they do in the Marches, which range
from far northern California - about a full day's drive from the SF
Bay area - to the border with Caid - good half-day's drive - to Guam,
Okinawa, and Japan.

The only time we ever have breakfasts or lunches at an event -
perhaps one to three times per year, if at all - is if someone
sponsors one as a fund raiser, either intrepid individuals or a
household or branch. The only time there is a dinner at a West or
Mists camping event is if someone sponsors one, either intrepid
individuals, a household, or a branch, or if the sitting Royalty
decree a potluck, any of which happen far less often than breakfasts.

Lately there have been "ice cream socials" and "lemonade stands" as
fund raisers at Kingdom summer events. While i'm not a stickler for
absolute and utter historical authenticity in all things at SCA
events, i find these to be quite jarring, especially when they are
"advertised" all around the Eric with signage (!!!) and hawkers, who
are "period", but not when they're shouting about popsicles. These
often have either or both Royal and autocrat sponsorship. The West
and its branches seem happy to have period food at feasts, why not
for fund raisers? (grumble, grumble, grumble)
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:40:34 -0700
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Uther, was Searching for Kingdom With Japanese
	Prince
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Lilinah wrote:
 Since the actual heirs have been discovered in Northshield, i will not
 bother to post that the upcoming King of the West (coronation in about
 a wee) is a Viking beginning his 7th reign.

And 'Lainie
Uther _again_? Is he trying to catch up with Jade?

Well, Jade has reigned 15 times since 1987, and he tends to come out 
to fight for the next reign after Uther. So if Uther can ever catch 
up, it won't be until Jade retires. Of course i'm not counting 
Uther's reign in An Tir last year. Plus we've had three other Dukes 
with *8* reigns. I won't mind when Uther catches up to them.

Gunthar wrote:
<<< IMHO, Uther is BETTER than Jade. He fights with a
casual ease that is beautiful to watch. I consider
Uther one of the top 3 or 4 fighters in the SCA
right now. And, on top of that he is a very
quiet and almost humble man. He is also turning
into a bloody good rapier fighter.

Gunthar
I may have won 2 Crowns but he is what I
consider a duke! >>>

I think you have a few good points. As someone who doesn't drink much 
alcohol, I find the quantity of alcohol he consumes on Saturday night 
a bit disturbing - and he isn't always so quiet :-) But he is quite 
sincere, which i appreciate, and i've never seen him be rude or 
presumptuous.

Additionally, his taking up rapier was rather daring in The West, 
where rapier has been treated as an ugly step-sister until rather 
recently. Several long-time and potent Westerners have long been 
opposed to rapier. When Crown Prince Uther started learning it (and 
wearing 16th C. garb, too! well, as least when he's fighting rapier) 
that rather put the stamp of approval on it.

When he won this past June Crown Tourney, his speech to his consort, 
Kara, as he placed the wreath upon her head, was really moving, and 
i'm not easily moved. It was truly honest, heart-felt, and 
beautifully spoken.

Plus he makes his squires learn to do Bardic work based on genuine 
old tales and poems. He's not just about the fighting.

Essentially, my first SCA in the West was his coronation when he and 
his consort, his sister Osa, who's nearly as tall as he is, were 
carried in to court *standing* on their shields. That was quite a 
sight!
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:16:47 -0400
From: euriol <euriol at ptd.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Crown Prince Uther & Duke Jade
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

You can imagine my surprise when I saw Uther in his 16th century garb
getting ready for one of the Rapier tournaments at Pennsic along with
Viscount Brand. I thought they were trying to tweak with my brain. I also
was just amazed how much Uther spoke of his love for the Rapier and smiled
as I saw him maintaining his blade. Certainly a very big change in attitude
than what I had seen in the West many, many years ago (not specifically
from Uther, but just from heavy fighters in general).

I also thought it interesting how HRH Gunthar expressed his opinion of
Uther vs. Jade. I must say that I would be the flip side to that coin. Jade
was the first person I was told stories of when I first joined the SCA,
stories about his first Crown Tourney. Over the years, whenever I had a
chance to speak or spend time with Jade he always made me feel special.
This is a quality I see Jade share with almost everyone I've observed him
interact one on one with. It could have been no one else who would made it
more special to me than having Jade  & Eliana (a dear friend) elevate me to
the Order of the Pelican. I suppose that there is always one person that
you think of as your "Captain" for me it is Jade.

Euriol

Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 11:24:23 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] An Event Without a Feast,	was Cookery book at
	Longleat House?

On Nov 8, 2009, at 8:40 AM, Judith Epstein wrote:
<<< Maybe a couple of events without feasts would clarify the issue of
the relative importance of cooks for them. >>>

Johnnae replied:
<<< You must understand that major events, even events like Crowns
and Coronations, routinely run without feasts in this kingdom.
Some offer hotel catered banquets that don't sell out and get canceled.
Others never plan a feast to start with.
Even the 40th ran with just lunch taverns. >>>

Well, out here in The West, there are NO Kingdom level events 
guaranteed to have a feast.

We have no lunch tables, day boards, or feasts at our 3 Crown Tourney 
and 2 Coronation camping events, including TWELFTH NIGHT Coronation, 
which usually happens in a hotel and does NOT have a catered meal. 
There's a room set aside for eating in where it's strictly BYO.

We used to have feasts at our two Collegia per year. But first each 
Collegium went from a 2-day to a 1-day event with a feast on Saturday 
night, and then feasts were curtailed for two reasons: 1) the sites 
we usually use, schools, don't let us use there professional kitchens 
and often have no home ec. room anymore, and when they do they 
usually have home-grade not-fully-functional electric stoves; and 2) 
not many people stayed for the feast. Now we're only having one 
Collegium per year because it's such a money loser. Small groups of 
dedicated foodies sponsored the Perfectly Period Feast in 2007 
(English, early 15th c.) and next year there will be a late period 
Spanish PPF.

I'm not very up on feasts in other Western Principalities and in our 
Marches, but in The Principality of the Mists we have 3 feasts per 
year: two Investitures, and one Bardic Competition and Feast, which 
has been losing money. The Investiture Feasts are often poorly 
attended, too, especially the Fall one (Nov. 21 this year) because 
it's usually pouring rain and people want to get home before it's too 
dark and dangerous to drive.

Some branches of the Mists have feasts in December - that's when most 
of the feasts are. And because they're at branch level - barony (not 
as big a deal out here, since they are subordinate to the 
principality they're in), province, shire, canton, college - these 
feasts are quite often not historically accurate, and often pot 
lucks. Some branch "feasts" during the lighter time of the year are 
just your basic American cook-outs.

So, no historical feasts? There are very few anyone would really 
miss. Not much of a threat...
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:01:25 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Interkingdom Anthropology

Stefan wrote:
<<< Judith, you are in the Middle Kingdom, right?  Are you aware that it
is one of the few, if not the only one, that still has arguments over
what is an art vs. what is a science? Because it still has different
offices for each. >>>

Alys Katherine replied:
<<< No, we don't.  We haven't had separate offices for years.  While I can't
tell you when the switch was made, it was probably when the Society made
the switch.  I've seen a few places on the Internet where the two early
symbols for Art and for Science still exist, instead of the replacement
symbol of an arch and candle for the combined A&S. >>>

The West Kingdom and the Principality of the Mists both still have 
separate Arts and Sciences officers. The Principality of Cynagua 
switched recently to a single officer, this year i think. Branches 
have only one A&S officer, when they have one - many do not.

There is currently talk about rolling them into one office at the 
Kingdom level, and the Principality of the Mists may follow.
-- 
Urtatim al-Qurtubiyya bint 'abd al-Karim al-hakam al-Fassi
current Minister of Sciences
and
former Minister of Arts
Principality of the Mists

Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:22:24 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th Nights

Johnnae wrote:
<<< Various 12th Nights are being held in the coming two weeks.

So what people planning or being served this year? >>>

West Kingdom has never had a feast as long as i've been in the SCA, 
since Twelfth Night is usually held in a hotel.

There's always a large room with many tables set aside for people to 
bring their own food, usually for lunch and snacks.

For dinner, everyone is on their own. People generally go to nearby 
restaurants or eat in the hotel restaurant.

For the longest time, people who wanted to dance had to find a hall 
or other public space (like a deserted lobby) to dance in. Appalling, 
i know! Fortunately a couple people got together a few years ago and 
with the support of some Duchesses, created a dance ball later on 
Saturday night. Since certain of the organizers wanted a period 
banqueting table, there is usually nothing but cloying sweets 
available. I have no idea what's being planned this year, since no 
requests for help or discussions took place on any of the local 
e-lists i'm on.

And the whole night and well into the next morning there are parties 
with *lots* of alcohol going on in peoples' private rooms.

So much for our Twelfth Night food.
-- 
Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:36:58 +1100
From: Shayne Lynch <maindroit at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Banned
To: lochac at lochac.sca.org

Re Juanna and the Fencing Ban.

That particular ban (one of many) was primarily due to the large range
of fencing rules throughout the West Kingdom (Oertha, Lochac, Mists).
That is was Jade said at the time, and I have no reason to doubt him.
The problem was fixed by the fencers of the kingdom pulling together
to formulate an agreed standard set of rules.

AT THE SAME TIME, Queen Juanna detailled her dislike of rapier, and it
became the focus of discontent.  She is a nice person, she is my
friend, and she doesn't like SCA fencing.  I visited the Central West
shortly after and I didn't really like what I saw of the fencing (and
the fencing attitude) displayed over there at times.

If you want to get bent out of shape about fencing, I suggest the
original ban circa 1987 which described metal fencing swords as "live
steel" and deplored the (ficticious) dozens of people killed in US
high school fencing incidents.

Francois Guyon.

From: Chris Zakes <dontivar at gmail.com>
Date: June 23, 2010 4:25:13 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Black Scarf??

<<< Ok so I looked over the timeline suggested by Hanse for his class at King's College.....can someone please explain to me a 'Black Scarf??'  I've heard of a white scarf, but not a black scarf?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1424603&id=1255397856

~Jeanne-Marie, who isn't new to the SCA, just new HERE  :) >>>

I'm not sure what Hanse is talking about, but at one time, Guildmasters (the first grant-level rapier award in the West Kingdom) wore a black scarf.

       -Tivar Moondragon

Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 14:53:17 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Naming of Names - slightly OOP

Stefan wrote:
<<< Which are the groups in the West which are provinces? I do remember 
hearing that most people in the Mists played at a principality level 
rather than at a baronial level, so this makes more sense now. >>>

We only do it to annoy because we know it teases:
we have the Province of the Mists
and
the Principality of the Mists.
The Province of the Mists, where the SCA began, is within the Principality of the Mists.
In the Principality of the Mists is also the Province of Southern Shores.

The Principality of the Mists has 13 active branches (two others, both Colleges, are dormant for the moment).

The other principality in the central West Kingdom is the Principality of Cynagua (a pun i believe...)
It contains the Province of Golden Rivers (Sacramento CA)
and
the Province of Silver Desert (Reno/Sparks, Nevada)

Our third Principality, that of Oertha - that is, Alaska - has, to the best of my knowledge, no provinces.
--
Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 20:53:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: SCA-Cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Naming of Names - slightly OOP

Stefan wrote:
<<< Which are the groups in the West which are provinces? I do remember 
hearing that most people in the Mists played at a principality level 
rather than at a baronial level, so this makes more sense now. >>>

While i mentioned the two provinces with the Principality of the Mists: the Province of the Mists - which is mostly the East Bay (Berkeley, Oakland, Alameda, and more) - and Southern Shores - which is more or less the city of San Jose+, i neglected to mention that there are three baronies within the Principality of the Mists:
-- The Barony of Darkwood, which encompasses So. Santa Clara, Santa Cruz, San Benito and Monterey counties, including the cities of King City, Salinas, Monterey, Santa Cruz, and other tasty bits, and has three active cantons;
-- The Barony of the Westermark, which is San Mateo county, the county immediately south of "the City and County of San Francisco";
and
-- The Barony of Vinhold, which is Napa, SW Solano, and east Sonoma Counties (lotsa wine country...)

The Principality of Cynagua has two:
-- The Barony of Fettburg (San Joaquin County, including the cities of Stockton, Manteca, and Modesto);
-- The Barony of Rivenoak (the city of Chico).

The Principality of Oertha has three:
-- The Barony of Eskalya (the greater Anchorage area);
-- The Barony of Selviergard (Eagle River to the Matanuska-Susitna Valley - i'd have to look at a map to figure out where this is);
-- The Barony of Winter's Gate (Northern Alaska, primarily the Fairbanks & North Pole Interior Region) ...where Santa Claus plays...

Baronies in the West are branches/subjects of the Principalities within which they lie, if they are in a principality. Lands which are not within principalities are called The Marches and include many different kind of territories, including:
-- The Barony of Allyshia (Humboldt County in far northern California)
-- The Barony of Tarnmist (San Luis Obispo County, just north of Caid)
-- The Palatine Barony of the Far West (the Asia-Pacific Rim parts of the West Kingdom, including Korea, Japan, Okinawa, Thailand, & Guam, including a number of military bases and ships, called Strongholds)

More than most on this list ever wanted to know.
-----
Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
the persona formerly known as Anahita

<the end>